best rifle for hunting rabbit and fox

chris cahill

How's it going.
I'm looking in to getting my first rifle to do a bit of rabbit and fox hunting. I'm looking to get some advice on what rifle would be the best to go for.

I was looking at a CZ 455 .17HMR but don't know if it's a bit small for fox

aaakev

I shot plenty of foxes with a hmr without issue but a dedicated fox gun its not. If you're gonna shoot mostly rabbits and the odd fox hmr is grand, the other way and id look at a .223 or .204

chris cahill

aaakev wrote:

I shot plenty of foxes with a hmr without issue but a dedicated fox gun its not. If you're gonna shoot mostly rabbits and the odd fox hmr is grand, the other way and id look at a .223 or .204

I was thinking that 223 would be a bit big for rabbit. What's the .204 like

Cass

Have you any experience in firearms or rifles?

While all firearms must be treated with respect and used with the utmost of caution, some are better suited to beginners. Such as a .22lr. However the .22lr is not suited to fox shooting. It does not provide a clean or effective kill any any range worth talking about. So some firearm knowledge/experience would open you up to more possibilities.

chris cahill

Cass wrote:

Have you any experience in firearms or rifles?

Cass wrote:

While all firearms must be treated with respect and used with the utmost of caution, some are better suited to beginners. Such as a .22lr. However the .22lr is not suited to fox shooting. It does not provide a clean or effective kill any any range worth talking about. So some firearm knowledge/experience would open you up to more possibilities.

I do I'm in the army so I'd have a good bit of experience shooting the .223 and .308. I don't know much about the .204 or .17
But I like the CZ 455 .17HMR it's a very nice rifle

dodderangler

chris cahill wrote: »

I was thinking that 223 would be a bit big for rabbit. What's the .204 like

It's a fine rifle for rabbits on long distances and head shots.
And a great fox gun.

aaakev

Hp ammo is grand for rabbits, wont mess em up so bad you cant eat them and its cheap. What do you plan on.shooting more of?

Cass

chris cahill wrote: »

I do I'm in the army so I'd have a good bit of experience shooting the .223 and .308. I don't know much about the .204 or .17
But I like the CZ 455 .17HMR it's a very nice rifle

You'll know you're stuff so. Then as the lads said either the hmr. or .223 is the way to go.

chris cahill

I'd be more into shooting fox. But would like a good all rounder as I think it would be better for get permission to shoot on people's land. A friend of mine told me the .17 is good for fox up to 120 yards with a head shot

Cass

Shot placement is key to all shooting as you most likely already know. The hmr is good for bunnies and the occasional fox, within reason (distance wise).

If it's foxes mostly and the occasional bunny i'd be looking more towards the .223.

chris cahill

Thanks for all the replies lads I'm like at kid Christmas deciding what rifle to go for.

Cass

First thing is to narrow or even pick a caliber. Once you've that done think about a budget. Once you have your budget then decide what you like in terms of design such as:

• Straight stock
• Thumbhole
• Timber
• Composite
• Heavy barrel
• Medium/light barrel
• Threaded for suppressor or not
• Bolt action or semi auto

Then start looking at brands such as :

• CZ
• Savage
• Howa
• Remingotn
• Steyr
• Tikka
• etc.

Try to narrow it down as best you can in accordance with your budget. Don't get blinkered on one particular type/brand as you may find something that you never considered, but just suits you.

Then the fun begins. Apply and wait for the license.

chris cahill

Cass wrote:

First thing is to narrow or even pick a caliber. Once you've that done think about a budget. Once you have your budget then decide what you like in terms of design such as: Straight stockThumbholeTimberCompositeHeavy barrelMedium/light barrelThreaded for suppressor or notBolt action or semi auto Then start looking at brands such as : CZSavageHowaRemingotnSteyrTikkaetc. Try to narrow it down as best you can in accordance with your budget. Don't get blinkered on one particular type/brand as you may find something that you never considered, but just suits you.

Cass wrote:

Then the fun begins. Apply and wait for the license.

My budget would be between 1000/1500 would be more worried about the price of rounds
Stock thumbhole timber
Barrel medium in Wight definitely threaded for suppressor
Bolt action
Don't mind what brand but like the cz

Would you recommend any good gun shops around Dublin/Meath or a good gun club

Cass

chris cahill wrote: »

My budget would be between 1000/1500

That is a healthy budget and would allow you any HMR you wanted with good scope and allow to choose between most brands of .223 and still have a decent to good scope.

would be more worried about the price of rounds

hmr is average of €18 per 50.
.223 varies from €14 per 20 to €30 per 20. Also boxes of 50 from €30 to €45.

Don't mind what brand but like the cz

CZ are a great and stable rifle. In HMR they are accurate, and for your budget, would see you with a brand new rifle, good scope, rings, gun safe, ammo, license fee, etc all covered with change in your pocket.

In a .223 less so. The rifles tend to satrt at higher price and can go as high as €1,20 for the Kevlar version of the CZ .223. I had one of these myself and they are a fantastic rifle. However for the same money you have options such as the Savage Model 10 SR, Tikka & Tikka T3(even Tikka Tactical second hand), Sako, Steyr, etc.

[/quote]Would you recommend any good gun shops around Dublin/Meath or a good gun club[/QUOTE]

Options around Dublin are limited. However a full listing of all shops (online ones too) can be found here. Take some time and have a browse. Start with places closest to you and work outward.

chris cahill

Thanks man fear play to you taken the time to replie. I was on that website sports Den just there his in navan only 20 mins after from me so I'll drop down tomorrow for a good look ðŸ‘

cookimonster

Have you your land permissions sorted yet?, this can be a determining factor as to the choice of fire arm and calibre.
If you pick a bunny basher then discover you've no bunnies to bash then you have an expensive ornament on your hands, obviously the same goes for other firearms and quarry.
If you have mates that have permissions then your squared away (if they are willing to take you out).
Remember what's done on the range is far far removed from hunting in the field. I was brought up shooting from an early age and now have 28 years service in the military and have never associated sports shooting with military firearms training, even my limited experience on civilian ranges was quite different to that of time spent on military ones.

Any how pick your fire arm on a realistic intended use, running costs and practicality as well as other points mentioned in previous posts

chris cahill

cookimonster wrote:

Have you your land permissions sorted yet?, this can be a determining factor as to the choice of fire arm and calibre. If you pick a bunny basher then discover you've no bunnies to bash then you have an expensive ornament on your hands, obviously the same goes for other firearms and quarry. If you have mates that have permissions then your squared away (if they are willing to take you out). Remember what's done on the range is far far removed from hunting in the field. I was brought up shooting from an early age and now have 28 years service in the military and have never associated sports shooting with military firearms training, even my limited experience on civilian ranges was quite different to that of time spent on military ones.

How is going. I have land permission from a friend who's dad runs a farm there having trouble with fox and said there is a lot of rabbits to that's why I was looking for a good all rounder rifle. I know there's is differents between shooting on the range and hunting but it's something I've always had a interest in. Do you know anything about the amry hunting club I've heard there is one and they get to use the Glen for it

cookimonster

Sorry about the delay, good to see your sorted with a permission as its a vital step in the application process.
Yep, the DF has a club, but there's a bit of a waiting list and you've just missed the AGM where new member intake is done. At present there's limited application for various firearms on the club grounds as it's mainly bird shooting and deer stalking that takes place. Use of the ground is restricted to certain areas and dependent on what training is going on at the time and is as far as I can see only utilized during the game season.
If you ask around some of the shooting lads in your barracks your bound to run into a member and they will give you a point of contact.

FISMA.

For bunnies, I like my 10/22. Especially, when shooting subsonics.

For foxes, I like my 700 in 223.

A Howa 1500, CZ, Savage or the like would be grand.

Have a look around and see if you can find a package deal.

HW100S

I had a 223, great rifle and fantastic for foxes - but that's all I used it for.
I replaced it with a CZ455 0.17 and have since found the 0.17 to be a much more versatile rifle.
Its suitable for small vermin and also for foxes within reasonable distances.

There have been occasions where the shy fox just stays outside the 0.17HMR range and I wished I had the 223 but you just have to leave them for another time or improve your field craft and shorten the distance.
For bunny bashing the 223 is pretty costly and you wont be eating them afterwards either.
I think the 0.17 is a great versatile gun that suits my needs at the minute.
Although not totally silent, I think it causes minimal disturbance when night time shooting compared to the 223.

Best of luck in your choice and happy hunting.

pm.

Hi Chris

And welcome to Boards... I just bought a new .17hmr its an Anschutz 1517 with a 14" barrel http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/index.php5?produktID=303&menu=109&sprache=1&produktShow=detail

Using a rifle rest at 100yrds im almost putting holes in holes its deadly accurate... They cost around €950 new I bought my one from Dave Mulvihill Ballymahon http://outdoorsports.ie/blogs/news/9402571-outdoor-sports-business-profile. For rabbits its a great round very fast kill and east to get head shots, but find in windy conditions the bullet tends to drift.

I have yet to get me a fox with it but I bought it with the intention as a designated bunny machine.. For the fox I use my .243 Steyr pro Hunter with a T8 Mod, again a great machine for knocking out mr red

garv123

Had a .17 myself for 3 years, lovd the calibre and imo its the best all round gun for foxes and rabbits combined, theyre accurate and very flat shooting now.

Like yourself I was starting off and I wanted something for both, it was a no brainer for me and it worked out very well shooting a lot of foxes and rabbits for the 3 years I had it.

I got a .243 then for foxes and deer so I decided to sell the 17hmr and get the .22 for just rabbits. the .22 is a whole new challenge since it drops like a stone but its a fun cheap little thing to shoot.

chris cahill

garv123 wrote:

I got a .243 then for foxes and deer so I decided to sell the 17hmr and get the .22 for just rabbits. the .22 is a whole new challenge since it drops like a stone but its a fun cheap little thing to shoot.

garv123 wrote:

Like yourself I was starting off and I wanted something for both, it was a no brainer for me and it worked out very well shooting a lot of foxes and rabbits for the 3 years I had it.

garv123 wrote:

Had a .17 myself for 3 years, lovd the calibre and imo its the best all round gun for foxes and rabbits combined, theyre accurate and very flat shooting now.

Thanks for the repile this just made my mind up on what to go for

Cass

Did you decide yet on caliber, make, etc?

chris cahill

Cass wrote:

Did you decide yet on caliber, make, etc?

Well how's things
After looking into it I'm going to go for a 223
Seen this on sports den for 1340
Tikka T3 Lite .223

Black Synthetic
Blued Barrel
Comes with a Leupold VX-1 3-9 x 40 scope with cover
Also comes with a Wildcat Predator 8 Moderator
Comes with Sako Optilock mounts

All the reviews I've seen on it say it's a very good rifle. What do you think.

I'm looking into getting into a club now I've been told there's one in ballivor co.Meath

Cass

chris cahill wrote: »

Black Synthetic
Blued Barrel
Comes with a Leupold VX-1 3-9 x 40 scope with cover
Also comes with a Wildcat Predator 8 Moderator
Comes with Sako Optilock mounts

New price you're looking at around €2,000. So the price is not too bad. Plus it's a ready to shoot rifle. not messing around getting rings, scope etc.

All the reviews I've seen on it say it's a very good rifle. What do you think.

The scope is fine, but for me i'd want a little more. A rabbit or even fox can look very small with a 9 power scope at anything over 200 yards. You don't need a massive target scope, but something up to 16 or 18 power would be my preference.

The rifle, Tikka, is a nice rifle. The T3 lite has the lighter barrel, but still a good rifle.

The Wildcat suppressor is a good one too. Big, but not overly heavy and can be stripped down for easy cleaning.

The Sako rings are a good quality too. Someone liked their rifle and done it justice. So once it's in good nick, with little use it's worth the money. However that doesn't mean you cannot argue the price.

I'm looking into getting into a club now I've been told there's one in ballivor co.Meath

No idea lad. Not too up on clubs. A full list of ranges can be found here though.

cookimonster

chris cahill wrote: »

....I'm looking into getting into a club now I've been told there's one in ballivor co.Meath

What type of club?, game or target, I know there's a clay pigeon ground up there and have shot on it but the last time I was there it was clays only. Have they opened a rifle range?

chris cahill

cookimonster wrote:

What type of club?, game or target, I know there's a clay pigeon ground up there and have shot on it but the last time I was there it was clays only. Have they opened a rifle range?

I've been told it's a hunting club

cookimonster

Do you know someone in the club and are they taking new members? It can be tricky getting into clubs outside of your parish, although many here will say different.
Your choice of fire arm may not suit a traditional thinking club who may prefer 'shotgun shooters' for membership.
If it's for your license your better off going down the route you originally proposed - your mates land. You can still organise insurance as an individual with such companies as Country Side Alliance

chris cahill

Yeah I know someone in the club. I'll know more about it the weekend I've to go down to them. I'll still be put down that I have permission off my mates da and be in the gun club

I thought I would be better with both permission to shoot on land and being in a gun club when going for the license

Cass

There were one or two for sale here. One stands out if it's still available.

chris cahill

I thought they would be well gone

Cass

One says it's one hold and the other is still marked as for sale.

No harm to ask or PM the sellers.

chris cahill

Cass wrote:

No harm to ask or PM the sellers.

Cass wrote:

One says it's one hold and the other is still marked as for sale.

Will do. Not to sure on the left hand bolt

Cass

Balls. Sorry about that. Missed the left handed thing.

On another note, don't get pigeon holed on Tikka. They are a fine gun, but i've found over the years that if you have one gun on your mind you may miss another that is a better suit or better value. So have a "favorite", but look at everything.

In reality there are not real bad guns out there, however price does seem to be an issue. IOW some consider cheaper rifles to be inferior. Now this holds true to some extent, but not always.

chris cahill

Cass wrote:

Balls. Sorry about that. Missed the left handed thing.

Cass wrote:

On another note, don't get pigeon holed on Tikka. They are a fine gun, but i've found over the years that if you have one gun on your mind you may miss another that is a better suit or better value. So have a "favorite", but look at everything.

Cass wrote:

In reality there are not real bad guns out there, however price does seem to be an issue. IOW some consider cheaper rifles to be inferior. Now this holds true to some extent, but not always.

Yeah I just like the tikka. But still looking at any of the .223 that are for sale.

pm.

Have to agree with Cass with regards to the scope, I have the leupold vx1 3-9x50 and used it on my. 22 with no problems very clear glass. But when you step up your caliber you will also need more mag to ensure a good kill

aaakev

Iv a 4-18 power scope and have to say i never adjust it above 10x, i often adjust it down as low as 4x if im lamping a small field where there might be lots of movement but never up. Tbh iv never thought about increasing the power, just find 10x comfortable even shooting long range water bottles. Must give it a go now i think of it and see if i can tighten the groups out further

chris cahill

I'll wait and get the rifle first before I even think about a scope. Thanks lads. Once I get the license will I have to reapply if I want to change the scope

pm.

chris cahill wrote: »

I'll wait and get the rifle first before I even think about a scope. Thanks lads. Once I get the license will I have to reapply if I want to change the scope

Nope change the scope as you please

chris cahill

pm. wrote:

Nope change the scope as you please

Thanks lad

How much would I get a good scope for I seen a few on the net going for mad money

Cass

chris cahill wrote: »

Once I get the license will I have to reapply if I want to change the scope

Just to clarify. You DON'T need a license for a scope. You go out and buy one right now if you want. It's not a firearm or a component part of one so it needs no license.

Only NV scopes require authorisation (and even that is not a license).

chris cahill wrote: »

How much would I get a good scope for I seen a few on the net going for mad money

How long is apiece of string?

They can start (scopes) from €80 and go all the way up to €3,500. Of course you can go into the tens of thousands but lets stay a little bit sane.

To choose a scope i'd do it in this order:

• Budget
• What you need it for
• Glass quality
• Distance you intend to shoot (max)
• Magnification range to suit your shooting
• Brand
• Personal preferences
• Model
• New/second hand

Realistically for a hmr you can spend as little as €250 for a new or even second hand scope and as much as €1000. Anything over a grand seems excessive for a rifle that really only has a 200 yard limit for small game/vermin and 120 yards for slighter larger game/vermin. IOW if the scope can see 1,000 yards and cost €3k what good is it if the rifle can only shoot 150 yards.

hank .308

Hello everyone, just reading all your posts on which rifle is best for Foxes and rabbits and for my two pence I've been shooting a long time and would highly recommend a 22 magnum. i use a lever action Winchester for Foxes in 22m and it has yet to let me down, it is very easy to get to technical about guns and fancy scopes for such a simple job. 223 is a great calibre but a bit much for my liking, however it's horses for courses!. A nice 22m cz with a hawke or bushnell 4x32 is perfect after all the 22 magnum was designed for Foxes and coyotes
Cheers

chris cahill

hank .308 wrote:

Hello everyone, just reading all your posts on which rifle is best for Foxes and rabbits and for my two pence I've been shooting a long time and would highly recommend a 22 magnum. i use a lever action Winchester for Foxes in 22m and it has yet to let me down, it is very easy to get to technical about guns and fancy scopes for such a simple job. 223 is a great calibre but a bit much for my liking, however it's horses for courses!. A nice 22m cz with a hawke or bushnell 4x32 is perfect after all the 22 magnum was designed for Foxes and coyotes Cheers

How's it going.
What range would you be getting fox at with the 22 magnum

aaakev

hank .308 wrote: »

Hello everyone, just reading all your posts on which rifle is best for Foxes and rabbits and for my two pence I've been shooting a long time and would highly recommend a 22 magnum. i use a lever action Winchester for Foxes in 22m and it has yet to let me down, it is very easy to get to technical about guns and fancy scopes for such a simple job. 223 is a great calibre but a bit much for my liking, however it's horses for courses!. A nice 22m cz with a hawke or bushnell 4x32 is perfect after all the 22 magnum was designed for Foxes and coyotes
Cheers

22mag is a good round but its dated now, the hmr has it beat every which way

hank .308

chris cahill wrote: »

How's it going.
What range would you be getting fox at with the 22 magnum

Anything up to 120 yards is perfect for this round chris. Theres no mess and you'll hav a nice unmarked pelt if ya wana skin out

Hunter456

i was in the same position as you a few months ago and i went with a 223 for mainly foxes and the odd rabbit or 2 but when i am after a rabbit i shoot them in the head. as for ammo start looking at the 17 hmr or 223 the 204 is expensive and when you get the rifle as new toys will be used alot starting out your gonna sore on ammo.

hank .308

No disrespect but every fox ive seen shot with a 17hmr is a runner and for my part i make sure any animal i shoot be it a rabbit, Fox or deer, is dead on impact out of respect for the animal. However i do agree that a 223 is a good round for foxes personally i reckon its a tad messy especially if you wana keep the pelt. Ps. i meant the fox pelt in my last post, not rabbit

T338

Does anyone use 22 hornet anymore. I know ammo is massively expensive but i found it a good all round rifle.

hank .308

Here here. Unreal round. Rounds are like hens teeth to get. Think there not being made anymore according to my local dealer. Pity
great round

aaakev

hank .308 wrote: »

No disrespect but every fox ive seen shot with a 17hmr is a runner and for my part i make sure any animal i shoot be it a rabbit, Fox or deer, is dead on impact out of respect for the animal. However i do agree that a 223 is a good round for foxes personally i reckon its a tad messy especially if you wana keep the pelt. Ps. i meant the fox pelt in my last post, not rabbit

I shot loads of foxes with a hmr and didn't have a single runner, it was my only rifle for about 2 years and i lamped a few times a week for a lot of rhat time. we all want a clean kill, anyone who doesn't shouldn't be hunting.