UK Labour Leadership election

Euphoria Intensifies

Benny_Cake's last line is on the money. The majority of Labour's new members are young people who would have no experience of anything but New Labour.

So on to the next thing (assuming there were no "shy Cooperites" or "shy Burnhamistas") - will Corbyn still be leader next summer? I know Chuka Umunna and Tristram Hunt came out and said that they weren't planning a heave, but I don't believe that for a minute tbh. Obviously, as a member of the loony left, I hope he will be, but the realist in me isn't so positive.

BoJack Horseman

Corby will get a year at least.

Party heaves will take a while to ferment.

Depends if he is true to himself out of the gate, or whether he puts on a veneer of centrist sensibility.

Sam Russell

He will be ridiculed by the Tory press, and the BBC, and whatever he proposes will be held up as Loony Left policies. Look what happened to Kinnock.

Remember, the Tories closed the mines, the car industry, the steel industry and championed the financial casino that is the City of London that crashed the banks and the economy as a result of 'light touch regulation' and 'you cannot buck the market' philosophies - not even when the market bucks you.

Now I accept that the closing of the above industries was in retaliation for the activities of the likes of Arthur Scargill and Red Jim (or whatever his name was at BL), but even so.

ancapailldorcha

Sam Russell wrote: »

He will be ridiculed by the Tory press, and the BBC, and whatever he proposes will be held up as Loony Left policies. Look what happened to Kinnock.

Thing is, short of Dave falling out of favour with said press, any of the 4 candidates will receive the same treatment.

LordSutch

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Thing is, short of Dave falling out of favour with said press, any of the 4 candidates will receive the same treatment.

Maybe? But I would have thought that Corbyn would get by far the most abuse, considering his very strong 'left wing' agenda! Corbyn is steeped in old school labour politics, and the other three are distinctly different in that respect.

We'll find out on Saturday, about Midday-ish. . .

ancapailldorcha

LordSutch wrote: »

Maybe? But I would have thought that Corbyn would get by far the most abuse, considering his very strong 'left wing' agenda! Corbyn is steeped in old school labour politics, and the other three are distinctly different in that respect.

We'll find out on Saturday, about Midday-ish. . .

I think any difference will be fairly minor to be frank. The fact that all 4 of these people will be to Dave's left will be vice enough.

Nodin

Well, at least they'll have a clear choice, until his own side whack him and put in more of the usual.

jank

He is making Mick Wallace look like an Armani model....
http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/COpOUmHW8AA5Ynv.jpg

ancapailldorcha

jank wrote: »

He is making Mick Wallace look like an Armani model....
http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/COpOUmHW8AA5Ynv.jpg

Except he's not going to parliament dressed like that.

ads20101

Jeremy has it.

Interesting times ahead in the UK

Harry Palmr

Deputy leader is Tom Watson

ancapailldorcha

Fantastic news.

Harry Palmr

How long until they can challenge the leadership under party rules?

Manach

Well, a chance to see if "Vox Populi, Vox Dei" applies.

ads20101

I haven't lived in the UK for nearly 16 years, but I have nearly always voted labour (apart from a brief lib dem moment -but never tory). I see a resurgence in the Labour Party but I am genuinely worried for the future.

Jeremy is a old school left wing socialist and although I was a child I remember the unelectable nature Michael Foot brought to the party.

I wish him well, I hope he does well.

blinding

Labour people have taken back their party from the New Tories of Blair,Campbell and Brown.

RDM_83 again

ads20101 wrote: »

I haven't lived in the UK for nearly 16 years, but I have nearly always voted labour (apart from a brief lib dem moment -but never tory). I see a resurgence in the Labour Party but I am genuinely worried for the future.

Jeremy is a old school left wing socialist and although I was a child I remember the unelectable nature Michael Foot brought to the party.

I wish him well, I hope he does well.

Thats what annoys me about the way a lot of this debate is framed on social media and online commentary.
People aren't just worried about Corybn because they are secret Tories, Blairites* or even because they disagree with his policies. You can personally like a lot of his policies while thinking that his election to leadership makes the chances of another 4 years of Conservatism that bit more likely.

There is a true believer quality to many on the left that would rather they wouldn't see power at all than compromise, * look at how being a Blairite e.g one of Labours most successful leaders is considered an insult .

Look at the way when I pointed out that Corybn holds position that is disliked to highly disliked by the voting population, migration, I could provide polling data that shows this and even how it breaks down to include those identifying as Left wing don't agree with his position on this, this was dismissed as with "many people aren't concerned" and "its the media narrative", neither of which actually tackles the issue at all.
Putting personal ideology ahead of what the voters think is important is a recipe for electoral defeat.
I used migration because I had the polling figures to hand to show how out of step he is but I am sure there is other issues where the narrative is going to be, "We know best, you concern about X is a mistake"

Jelle1880

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Thats what annoys me about the way a lot of this debate is framed on social media and online commentary.
People aren't just worried about Corybn because they are secret Tories, Blairites* or even because they disagree with his policies. You can personally like a lot of his policies while thinking that his election to leadership makes the chances of another 4 years of Conservatism that bit more likely.

There is a true believer quality to many on the left that would rather they wouldn't see power at all than compromise, * look at how being a Blairite e.g one of Labours most successful leaders is considered an insult .

Look at the way when I pointed out that Corybn holds position that is disliked to highly disliked by the voting population, migration, I could provide polling data that shows this and even how it breaks down to include those identifying as Left wing don't agree with his position on this, this was dismissed as with "many people aren't concerned" and "its the media narrative", neither of which actually tackles the issue at all.
Putting personal ideology ahead of what the voters think is important is a recipe for electoral defeat.
I used migration because I had the polling figures to hand to show how out of step he is but I am sure there is other issues where the narrative is going to be, "We know best, you concern about X is a mistake"

I am actually really interested in that data, could you link it perhaps ?

As for Corbyn: I think Labour have just granted the Tories a victory in 2020.

I think he is good for opposition, but completely unelectable for PM.

RDM_83 again

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I am actually really interested in that data, could you link it perhaps ?

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/uk-public-opinion-toward-immigration-overall-attitudes-and-level-concern

https://gqrr.app.box.com/s/ro3k2ep7ao1px0hq8dnpkty9y16kfxdr

For the second one its an opinion piece by a former Milliband consultant and pollster AFAIK, it summarizes a lot of polling and you can find the individual references in the foot-notes if you want the original stuff.

A Dub in Glasgo

He didn't just win it, he wiped the floor with the others

Leonard Hofstadter

That's it then, 10 more years of the Tories. The Tories could put a cat as the candidate for PM and they'd still win. Not a good day for democracy when there is now literally no credible alternative to the current UK Government. The Labour party lost the last time because they were too left wing (that and the fact that they didn't explicitly rule out doing a deal with the SNP), and now they've gone even further left at a time when the UK economy is growing and the next five years won't be anything like as tough as the past five years were. Labour's message will be even less relevant then than it is now. I will say this much about him, he does sound like a real person rather than someone who has been spun to the nth degree and is not afraid to say what he thinks, unlike the other three who were bland and uninspiring. Some of the problems in the UK he has identified are real problems, his solutions are obviously completely and utterly ridiculous (peoples' QE FFS), but it would be foolish to ignore some of the things he is saying just because it is Corbyn who is saying them.

One upside might be that the Lib Dems will get the more moderate Labour vote and come back as a force to be reckoned with. Very interesting times ahead, that's for sure. It was also unlikely Labour were going to win in 2020 anyway but hopefully once they get this bout of madness behind them (and lose handsomely in 2020) they will go back to being more moderate and sensible, and a credible alternative to the Conservatives. It is never good when there is no credible alternative to an existing Government (we have the same problem in Ireland at the moment, there isn't one of the so-called opposition parties that is in any way credible apart from Renua perhaps, the SocDems could have been that party but when they said they weren't going to be populist but were opposed to water charges they proved they're no different to the rest of them), that results in bad decisions and cronyism and so on.

I also find it hilarious that a party that's supposed to champion equality and diversity has elected two old white men as leader and deputy leader. At least before they had a female deputy leader. Equality and diversity everywhere - except when it comes to the Labour leadership it seems. The Tories had a woman leader 40 years ago.

The Black Oil

If he's some sort of Paul Murphy character in rhetoric and policy Labour won't win the next election. If he's more centrist it might be a closer call, depending on the UK economy, I guess.

Richard

captainspeed wrote: »

That's it then, 10 more years of the Tories. The Tories could put a cat as the candidate for PM and they'd still win. Not a good day for democracy when there is now literally no credible alternative to the current UK Government. The Labour party lost the last time because they were too left wing (that and the fact that they didn't explicitly rule out doing a deal with the SNP), and now they've gone even further left at a time when the UK economy is growing and the next five years won't be anything like as tough as the past five years were. Labour's message will be even less relevant then than it is now. I will say this much about him, he does sound like a real person rather than someone who has been spun to the nth degree and is not afraid to say what he thinks, unlike the other three who were bland and uninspiring. Some of the problems in the UK he has identified are real problems, his solutions are obviously completely and utterly ridiculous (peoples' QE FFS), but it would be foolish to ignore some of the things he is saying just because it is Corbyn who is saying them.

One upside might be that the Lib Dems will get the more moderate Labour vote and come back as a force to be reckoned with. Very interesting times ahead, that's for sure. It was also unlikely Labour were going to win in 2020 anyway but hopefully once they get this bout of madness behind them (and lose handsomely in 2020) they will go back to being more moderate and sensible, and a credible alternative to the Conservatives. It is never good when there is no credible alternative to an existing Government (we have the same problem in Ireland at the moment, there isn't one of the so-called opposition parties that is in any way credible apart from Renua perhaps, the SocDems could have been that party but when they said they weren't going to be populist but were opposed to water charges they proved they're no different to the rest of them), that results in bad decisions and cronyism and so on.

I also find it hilarious that a party that's supposed to champion equality and diversity has elected two old white men as leader and deputy leader. At least before they had a female deputy leader. Equality and diversity everywhere - except when it comes to the Labour leadership it seems. The Tories had a woman leader 40 years ago.

A spot on assessment.

BoJack Horseman

The Black Oil wrote: »

If he's some sort of Paul Murphy character in rhetoric and policy Labour won't win the next election. If he's more centrist it might be a closer call, depending on the UK economy, I guess.

He's more the former than the latter.

Looking at his record, Its a wonderful he stuck around being in Labour, a party he was obviously ill at ease in.

Attention turns to Tom Watson.... can he stop moderate his leader?
Canhe stop the anticipated purges?

Euphoria Intensifies

I think Corbyn comes across as a lot more sensible than Paul Murphy et al. They may hold similar views, but I get the sense that Corbyn would be more likely to tone down the trot in him in order to do a good job for the people who voted him in as leader.

Gideon will probably win in 2020, but I think that would have happened regardless of who was elected Labour leader.

A Dub in Glasgo

captainspeed wrote: »

Not a good day for democracy when there is now literally no credible alternative to the current UK Government

You have just witnessed the most democratic leadership contest in a long time. It is the FPTP system that has given the Tories a majority with less than 37% of the vote. That is the democratic deficiency

The Labour party lost the last time because they were too left wing (that and the fact that they didn't explicitly rule out doing a deal with the SNP)

They did not on both accounts

laoch na mona

at least labour are an actual labour party now not tories with a differen name. how they will do in the next election remains to be seen but at least under corbyn they are at least offering an alternative

WheatenBriar

Its only an alternative if it can get elected
Also rans don't shape policy

WheatenBriar

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You have just witnessed the most democratic leadership contest in a long time. It is the FPTP system that has given the Tories a majority with less than 37% of the vote. That is the democratic deficiency

Yet when asked to change their voting system,the British public said no,so not unequivocally a democratic deficiency

blinding

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Its only an alternative if it can get elected
Also rans don't shape policy

Hopefully the people will be given the opportunity to give their opinion at elections.