UK Labour Leadership election

BoJack Horseman

laoch na mona wrote: »

at least labour are an actual labour party now not tories with a differen name. how they will do in the next election remains to be seen but at least under corbyn they are at least offering an alternative

There are a dozen or so far-left parties in the UK.
There is plenty of alternative, but the people don't want it.

Look at the last GE.

The Tories won 300+ seats
Labour (who the Corbynistas consider Tory) won 230.

There are nearly 600 seats in the UK parliament further to the right than Corbyn.

Giving the British people more of an alternative they don't want just enshrines a decade more of Tory governance.

I like Corbyn a lot, I respect him though disagree with him on a number of things. I think having people like Corbyn involved in politics is extremely important, a full spectrum of views should and can be considered when making decisions.

With all that being said, I think it's an absolute disaster for the UK that he's to lead their second largest party.

A weak and infeasible opposition is utterly toothless.#

The opposition must perform adequate checks and balances on the sitting Government, and present viable alternatives. I don't believe that a far-left Labour can do that.

robindch

Putin must be quite happy this afternoon as I'm sure he won't have failed to notice that Corbyn appears to believe much of the propaganda generated by Russia in the wake of its double-invasion of Ukraine last year:

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/video/the-history-lurking-behind-the-crisis-in-ukraine-by-jeremy-corbyn-mp-2

Leonard Hofstadter

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Yet when asked to change their voting system,the British public said no,so not unequivocally a democratic deficiency

Exactly, AV was very heavily defeated. It's so amusing hearing Labour supporters (Corbyn fans in particular) now complaining about FPTP, the Labour party was one of the biggest cheerleaders for keeping FPTP but now that the British public chose the 'wrong' party for Government they want to get rid of it! I happen to think FPTP is wrong, and had I lived in the UK at the time, I would have voted to make it more like our system in Ireland. I don't know if it would have made much of a difference, there's a truckload of safe seats in the UK where the parties get over 40% of FPVs, but at least you could vote for the candidate you really want and then transfer to your next favourite candidate.

ads20101

Looks like all is not well in the Labour camp..

Just watching the news coverage.

There appears to be multiple senior members stating that they will not serve on Corbyns shadow cabinet and some interviewees are being openly hostile.

For the love of god, will they just grow up, act like adults and give the man a chance. He won by an overwhelming majority, he has a mandate, just give him that.

One more interesting snippet that sky are going with. Because he is a staunch republican Corbyn may well not join her majesty's privy council. To my knowledge he has to this in order be leader of the opposition.

Nomis21

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Giving the British people more of an alternative they don't want just enshrines a decade more of Tory governance.

The point here is that the British people DO want an alternative. That has now shown to be true by the grassroots overwhelmingly endorsing Corbyn as leader.

The Labour party in its present state could never win an election. People want a fairer society and they need someone like Corbyn who is not afraid to deliver it.

awec

This post has been deleted.

BoJack Horseman

robindch wrote: »

Putin must be quite happy this afternoon as I'm sure he won't have failed to notice that Corbyn appears to believe much of the propaganda generated by Russia in the wake of its double-invasion of Ukraine last year:

Corbyn may live to regret his time as useful idiot Westminster correspondant for the Kremlin & Ayatollah's propaganda channels.

Expect 'revelation' on a Monday/Tuesday to hang him on during PMQs

Dozen Wicked Words

Laughable that people think Cooper, Burnham or Kendall had any more chance of winning 2020 than Corbyn does. They offered nothing new, Corbyn at least has the chance to appeal to the near 40% of the electorate that didn't think it was worth bothering to vote.

awec

This post has been deleted.

Manach

Might I inquire if there are any books on Mr. Corbyn and his worldview? A quick search on Amazon does not seem to yield much except for very recent short kindle works that date from August. Thanks.

BoJack Horseman

Nomis21 wrote: »

The point here is that the British people DO want an alternative. That has now shown to be true by the grassroots overwhelmingly endorsing Corbyn as leader.

Eh... no.
This is just the 2nd leader in a row elected by Len McCluskey's money & resources.
Jezza differs because he brought in a lot of hard-left £3 voters.

The Labour party in its present state could never win an election

They were about to until it dawned on English people that it would have resulted in Alex Salmond in charge.

A Dub in Glasgo

captainspeed wrote: »

Exactly, AV was very heavily defeated. It's so amusing hearing Labour supporters (Corbyn fans in particular) now complaining about FPTP

Take a peek at the relevant threads on here, I have being saying that the Tories got an overall majority because of FPTP all along and the fact that FPTP is not as democratic as it's cheerleaders like to spout

BTW, I am not a Labour supporter

nokia69

Manach wrote: »

Might I inquire if there are any books on Mr. Corbyn and his worldview? A quick search on Amazon does not seem to yield much except for very recent short kindle works that date from August. Thanks.

anything by Karl Marx should do the job

BoJack Horseman

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Laughable that people think Cooper, Burnham or Kendall had any more chance of winning 2020 than Corbyn does. They offered nothing new, Corbyn at least has the chance to appeal to the near 40% of the electorate that didn't think it was worth bothering to vote.

This cliché is just that.

It's patently obvious that a centre-left leader would stand a better chance than a far-left leader.

Every election is won from the centre.
Abandon it to instead, man the barricades & you lose.

I can see no reason why attractive eloquent modernists & moderates like Kendell or Cooper couldn't win in 2020 vs the toad-like Gideon Osbourne

FTA69

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Eh... no.
This is just the 2nd leader in a row elected by Len McCluskey's money & resources.
Jezza differs because he brought in a lot of hard-left £3 voters.


They were about to until it dawned on English people that it would have resulted in Alex Salmond in charge.

50% of the party proper voted for Corbyn. Even if you excluded trade union affiliates and the registered supporters he would have romped home.

BoJack Horseman

FTA69 wrote: »

50% of the party proper voted for Corbyn. Even if you excluded trade union affiliates and the registered supporters he would have romped home.

Indeed.
'Unite' ploughed a lot of money & hours into ringing every labour member, union or not.

We must forget, Jez had a massive cash & staff advantage over the others.

A Dub in Glasgo

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Eh... no.
This is just the 2nd leader in a row elected by Len McCluskey's money & resources.
Jezza differs because he brought in a lot of hard-left £3 voters.

Have a look at the results data I posted earlier in the thread and even then you can admit that the above post is wrong

BoJack Horseman

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Indeed.
'Unite' ploughed a lot of money & hours into ringing every labour member, union or not.

We must forget, Jez had a massive cash & staff advantage over the others.

And the others split the vote

Leonard Hofstadter

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Laughable that people think Cooper, Burnham or Kendall had any more chance of winning 2020 than Corbyn does. They offered nothing new, Corbyn at least has the chance to appeal to the near 40% of the electorate that didn't think it was worth bothering to vote.

They had some hope of winning 2020 if they'd picked one of those. The British public will get tired of the Tories eventually. Some scandal will come up, something always comes up eventually, as Albert Renyolds once said 'it's the little things that trip you up'. They have now given the Tories 10 more years. The Tories can do whatever the hell they want now. Corbyn and his supporters just don't get it.

Online and in their own social bubbles, Corbyn is very popular for sure. If they engaged with ordinary people in the real world (who don't follow politics to the last detail and simply want to get on with their lives with some level of creature comforts and dignity) just a bit more often (instead of claiming moral superiority on just about everything and talking down to people in a way not unlike the Catholic Church used to do in Ireland one time) they'd realise that however much the British public might not like the Tories (and remember, openly saying you're a Conservative voter is not something that is best advised depending on the company you're keeping), they most certainly do not want someone like Corbyn as the alternative.

His economic policies will alienate a large portion of the British electorate, and that's before we even get started on his lunatic foreign policies. Whatever about his economic policies, his foreign policies are repugnant to a lot of the British electorate.

A Dub in Glasgo

Deleted User wrote: »

And the others split the vote

An ABC candidate would still have lost

BoJack Horseman

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Have a look at the results data I posted earlier in the thread and even then you can admit that the above post is wrong

When your data extrapolates the rather difficult to measure political leaning of members.

A Dub in Glasgo

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

When your data extrapolates the rather difficult to measure political leaning of members.

Well you show us your data to back up your assertion that

'This is just the 2nd leader in a row elected by Len McCluskey's money & resources.
Jezza differs because he brought in a lot of hard-left £3 voters.'

Lemming

I think Corbyn's fvcked himself. As an political commentator for the BBC remarked last last week, the very person who might not want Corbyn elected is Corbyn himself. As has been pointed out, he's very much to the left - as in, into the fringes left so that alienates most moderate folk who do not care for Labour/Tory/Whatever and just want sensible (or as sensible as can be) politicians at the helm - and that's most of the population to be perfectly honest. Fanbois will always be fanbois regardless, as will the "party faithful".

If he tries to hold the middle-ground as he might suddenly encounter the need to do when shown the reality of shouting from the backbenches (where it's easy to shout and not have to follow through ... ) vs. leading , then a lot of those £3 voters will think he's sold them out, and moderates will be very slow to believe him anyway as the damage has been done already given he's spent most of his career very much sitting on the far left. So I think he's going to be utterly toothless, undermined, and constantly on the backfoot from within the labour ranks and without. The only saving grace will be to remind all those younger voters who don't remember the 1970s/80s and think he's a "breath of fresh air" just how stale that breath of air really is and just how far fringe-left (or right for that matter) views work in the real world (i.e. they don't).

Dozen Wicked Words

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Well you show us your data to back up your assertion that

'This is just the 2nd leader in a row elected by Len McCluskey's money & resources.
Jezza differs because he brought in a lot of hard-left £3 voters.'

Well it's a nice cliché for some to fall back on

awec

This post has been deleted.

ancapailldorcha

awec wrote: »

Corbyn will have Labour diving head first to the left, the Tories should be moving in and hoovering up all those moderate centrist voters and get rid of the stigma that surrounds them. Good opportunity for the Conservative party to re-brand itself.

I'd say they might be more likely to turn to the Lib Dems now if anything.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

An ABC candidate would still have lost

Probably in agreement here, but a closer run race would have been far more beneficial to all.

Having 3 moderate 'same-people' vs someone with quite clearly differing views meant that the race was a foregone conclusion, forgone conclusions result in even starker victories as moderates don't bother to even register the vote they might have cast in a closer race.

awec

awec wrote: »

Corbyn will have Labour diving head first to the left, the Tories should be moving in and hoovering up all those moderate centrist voters and get rid of the stigma that surrounds them. Good opportunity for the Conservative party to re-brand itself.

Zero time for the Lib Dems? Surely they'll align far closer to the moderate left than the Tories.

awec

This post has been deleted.