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UK Labour Leadership election

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    #572
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,015 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Of course, Scots who are left wing voted SNP although that is not your stance, you said 'The Scots voted SNP principally because its on the left'. I contend, with stronger evidence, that Scots voted SNP principally because they want independence


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    #573
    Very Bored
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Of course, Scots who are left wing voted SNP although that is not your stance, you said 'The Scots voted SNP principally because its on the left'. I contend, with stronger evidence, that Scots voted SNP principally because they want independence

    So why did 55% vote that they didn't?

    I can also tell you this much, that even Scots who do want independence (45%!) would not vote SNP if it was a party of the right. I accept that you have more experience (I'm guessing from your username) of Scotland than I do, but I know Wales intrinsically well and Wales and Scotland are very similar in many different ways and I can guarantee you that if Plaid Cymru suddenly manoeuvred its way onto the right of the spectrum it would vanish off the electoral map. I guarantee you, independence loving or not, if the SNP did likewise you'd have more chance of finding a tricolour flying over Ibrox than you would of finding a SNP politician in office.


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    #574
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,015 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Very Bored wrote: »
    So why did 55% vote that they didn't?

    Compared to what? the 50% who did not vote for the SNP?


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    #575
    Very Bored
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Compared to what? the 50% who did not vote for the SNP?

    With respect, I think you're allowing emotion to cloud judgement. I feel you very much supported the idea of Scottish independence and are grasping at straws to find an argument to support the idea that the referendum result was flawed. The truth is Scots voted to remain part of the union, not overwhelmingly, but 10% is still a significant gap. Fifty percent did not vote for independence, 45% did, which in a two horse race is mathematically a minority however its dressed up. 366 days ago, Scotland voted against independence. Why would it have done so if it wanted it?


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    #576
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,015 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Very Bored wrote: »
    With respect, I think you're allowing emotion to cloud judgement. I feel you very much supported the idea of Scottish independence and are grasping at straws to find an argument to support the idea that the referendum result was flawed. The truth is Scots voted to remain part of the union, not overwhelmingly, but 10% is still a significant gap. Fifty percent did not vote for independence, 45% did, which in a two horse race is mathematically a minority however its dressed up. 366 days ago, Scotland voted against independence. Why would it have done so if it wanted it?
    :confused::confused:


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    #577
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,472 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Back on topic please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #578
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Very Bored wrote: »
    With respect, I think you're allowing emotion to cloud judgement. I feel you very much supported the idea of Scottish independence and are grasping at straws to find an argument to support the idea that the referendum result was flawed. The truth is Scots voted to remain part of the union, not overwhelmingly, but 10% is still a significant gap. Fifty percent did not vote for independence, 45% did, which in a two horse race is mathematically a minority however its dressed up. 366 days ago, Scotland voted against independence. Why would it have done so if it wanted it?

    True but most Scots like English & Welsh do not agree with Conservative or Liberal polices. They lost out and the Conservatives haemorrhaged support to the far right. Corbyn is in a real good position he needs to reach out to groups like the SNP, Greens and UKIP voters to attract a big following. Cameron is surrounded by opponents on all sides, they are against austerity, the €,ECJ and proportional representation.


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    #579
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,015 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    CPTKm5BWgAIqR5g.png

    I wonder if this 'democrat' is willing to be identified?


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    #580
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    CPTKm5BWgAIqR5g.png

    I wonder if this 'democrat' is willing to be identified?

    Oh climb off your drama llama horse. What were you expecting? A coup?

    What the article is referring to is the armed forces openly challenging Corbyn's policies in full view of the public - something that generally speaking does not happen.


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    #581
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,472 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Lemming wrote: »
    Oh climb off your drama llama horse. What were you expecting? A coup?

    What the article is referring to is the armed forces openly challenging Corbyn's policies in full view of the public - something that generally speaking does not happen.

    Corbyn might want a reduced armed forces but he'll need the support of the Labour party to do it and that's even assuming he wins outright in 2020.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #582
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,015 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Lemming wrote: »
    Oh climb off your drama llama horse. What were you expecting? A coup?


    Irrespective of what you are expecting or what I am expecting or what anyone else is expecting, is this General willing going to go public with the sentiments expressed in that article


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    #583
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Corbyn might want a reduced armed forces but he'll need the support of the Labour party to do it and that's even assuming he wins outright in 2020.

    This is the man who once proposed a policy of allowing taxpayers opt out of paying for the military. I don't think he wants a reduction in the size of the armed forces; he wants no armed forces at the back his mind. He has spent his career being hostile towards the UK's armed forces, and well .. to be perfectly frank, at his age, a leopard is not going to change its spots.


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    #584
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,472 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Lemming wrote: »
    This is the man who once proposed a policy of allowing taxpayers opt out of paying for the military. I don't think he wants a reduction in the size of the armed forces; he wants no armed forces at the back his mind. He has spent his career being hostile towards the UK's armed forces, and well .. to be perfectly frank, at his age, a leopard is not going to change its spots.

    Such a move would split Labour though. I don't agree with a few of his policies but he's not going to have free reign as PM should he win outright. There'd be uproar if he attempted to disband the armed forces.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #585
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Such a move would split Labour though. I don't agree with a few of his policies but he's not going to have free reign as PM should he win outright. There'd be uproar if he attempted to disband the armed forces.

    Absolutely. TBH, as much as I rag on the man, there are a couple of Corbyn's policies (or parts therein) that I agree with. But I recognise the man for what he is, and a leader he is not among many other things. His biggest "gift" to the nation is going to be handing the reigns to the Tories for at least three elections (so upwards of fifteen years, after Labour get wiped out at the next election).

    I wouldn't follow the man into a paddling pool (and that's being kind)


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    #586
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,671 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Well one part of the press is welcoming Mr. Corbyn's election, Private Eye.


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    #587
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Manach wrote: »
    Well one part of the press is welcoming Mr. Corbyn's election, Private Eye.

    It's a pity that Spitting Image is no longer running :pac:


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    #588
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    In 1916, there was a mutiny of the British Army against giving Ireland home rule. Is this not fomenting/warning/threatening the same thing?

    The 'General' should be identified, court-martialed and drummed out of the army as a mutineer. He is not supposed to get involved in politics as a serving officer and certainly not in this way.

    Corbyn has been quoted and misquoted a lot recently. Particularly of views he expressed long ago. He may still hold them but if he has not said that recently (and particularly since he has become Labour leader) then it should not be assumed he would press them to be Labour policy.


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    #589
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    He seems to be paly with Jerry Adams, that part I can't get out of my head, so no I'm not excited.


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    #590
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    He seems to be paly with Jerry Adams, that part I can't get out of my head, so no I'm not excited.

    Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness did some good work in the peace process. I'd imagine Corbyn would admire them for this.


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    #591
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Irrespective of what you are expecting or what I am expecting or what anyone else is expecting, is this General willing going to go public with the sentiments expressed in that article

    What makes you think that this story is even true?


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    #592
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    jank wrote: »
    What makes you think that this story is even true?

    The fact that senior Tories and sources within the Ministry for Defense came out and said it was a disgrace? If it was a load of cadswallop they wouldn't have even bothered with it.


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    #593
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FTA69 wrote: »
    The fact that senior Tories and sources within the Ministry for Defense came out and said it was a disgrace? If it was a load of cadswallop they wouldn't have even bothered with it.

    Must not be true so
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/george-osborne-refuses-to-comment-on-claims-that-david-cameron-put-his-genitals-in-a-dead-pigs-mouth-at-university-10510692.html
    David Cameron says he 'will not dignify' claims he put his genitals in the mouth of a dead pig


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    #594
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness did some good work in the peace process. I'd imagine Corbyn would admire them for this.

    Er.. yes... I'll just leave it there, as usual lets not unveil the elephant in the centre of the room.


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    #595
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    This is going to go down a treat with farmers...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/meat-eaters-should-be-treated-like-smokers-says-the-vegan-shadow-environment-secretary-kerry-10515299.html


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    #596
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    jank wrote: »
    This is going to go down a treat with farmers...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/meat-eaters-should-be-treated-like-smokers-says-the-vegan-shadow-environment-secretary-kerry-10515299.html

    Or is it a go at Hameron Cameron?

    Oops - he was not doing the eating, was he?


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    #597
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    jank wrote: »
    This is going to go down a treat with farmers...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/meat-eaters-should-be-treated-like-smokers-says-the-vegan-shadow-environment-secretary-kerry-10515299.html

    As with many vegans I know it seems to be a good message wrapped into a confronting attitude.

    Should you treat meat eaters like smokers and shame for doing it ? Hell no, at least not if you want to actually change their mentality. Otherwise you're just picking fights.

    Should people be more educated about the impact of eating meat on the climate and the possible health risks ? Absolutely.


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    #598
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Time will tell what the shadow ag-min brings in terms of policy.

    Her mantra has been sustainability " & "animal welfare".

    A ban on halal slaughter & tackling the grip the supermarkets have over farming would be very attractive platforms & fulfill her mantra


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    #599
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    jank wrote: »
    This is going to go down a treat with farmers...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/meat-eaters-should-be-treated-like-smokers-says-the-vegan-shadow-environment-secretary-kerry-10515299.html

    I wouldn't worry about farmers. There aren't too many of them.
    People who eat meat , there are a few of us.


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    #600
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,472 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Time will tell what the shadow ag-min brings in terms of policy.

    Her mantra has been sustainability " & "animal welfare".

    A ban on halal slaughter & tackling the grip the supermarkets have over farming would be very attractive platforms & fulfill her mantra

    How would a ban on halal slaughter help?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #601
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    How would a ban on halal slaughter help?

    If you agree that animal welfare is critical & have seen halal slaughter, you would agree the two are incompatible.

    It's much worse than conventional slaughter & is completely unnecessary.

    Now, of course it would never see a policy document
    .
    The Muslim community break heavily toward Labour at elections, so such things will be allowed continue


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