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UK Labour Leadership election

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    #422
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,715 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    His choice of Shadow Ag. is equally interesting!

    http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/shadow-defra-secretary-revealed-as-anti-meat-campaigner.htm?cmpid=SOC|Twitter|FarmersWeekly|sf13052665|sf13052665

    She looks like a disaster waiting to happen. It looks like she wants to get rid of animal farming altogether.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #423
    Very Bored
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    She looks like a disaster waiting to happen. It looks like she wants to get rid of animal farming altogether.

    Yes, I think that was a very bad choice. A lot of the time veggies/vegans equate eating meat, and likewise livestock farming, with an acceptance of animal cruelty, which is as offensive as it is inaccurate.


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    #424
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    It looks like she wants to get rid of animal farming altogether.
    Well no surprise that some politicians dislike an animal farm :)


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    #425
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    His choice of Shadow Ag. is equally interesting!

    http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/shadow-defra-secretary-revealed-as-anti-meat-campaigner.htm?cmpid=SOC|Twitter|FarmersWeekly|sf13052665|sf13052665

    Perhaps it's assumed that most farmers won't vote Labour in any case, so you may as well have some fun with them by appointing a vegan to the role :)


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    #426
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,715 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Very Bored wrote: »
    Yes, I think that was a very bad choice. A lot of the time veggies/vegans equate eating meat, and likewise livestock farming, with an acceptance of animal cruelty, which is as offensive as it is inaccurate.

    I'm more concerned with the fact that a lot of them will want to end animal testing and animal research both of which are essential in scientific research.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #427
    Very Bored
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I'm more concerned with the fact that a lot of them will want to end animal testing and animal research both of which are essential in scientific research.

    True, if animals are used humanely for meat or for animal testing and research for medicines, then I'm fine with that. If they are used cruelly for any of the aforementioned then I draw the line as I do with the idea of using animals for research or testing for cosmetics or for the fur trade. I doubt this new UK shadow ag minister is so moderate though.

    You can see why she's been brought in though. With Corbyn being so staunchly left (as I am actually) she will appeal to those on the loony fringe of the left (which I would like to think I don't fit into).


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    #428
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,715 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Very Bored wrote: »
    True, if animals are used humanely for meat or for animal testing and research for medicines, then I'm fine with that. If they are used cruelly for any of the aforementioned then I draw the line as I do with the idea of using animals for research or testing for cosmetics or for the fur trade. I doubt this new UK shadow ag minister is so moderate though.

    A licence and training are required to perform research with animals. In addition, ethical clearance is required for any research carried out at a University. I think most people would be inclined to adopt your position. I'm inclined to think that this woman only got the position as Corbyn wants to portray himself as a feminist and had a smaller pool of female candidates to draw from.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #429
    Very Bored
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    A licence and training are required to perform research with animals. In addition, ethical clearance is required for any research carried out at a University. I think most people would be inclined to adopt your position. I'm inclined to think that this woman only got the position as Corbyn wants to portray himself as a feminist and had a smaller pool of female candidates to draw from.

    I think its for another reason but I've already said it by editing my post above so I won't repeat myself :).


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    #430
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,715 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Very Bored wrote: »
    I think its for another reason but I've already said it by editing my post above so I won't repeat myself :).

    I didn't see that. I don't fit in with that lot myself though I'm involved in some of the research I mentioned above so I'm not exactly impartial either.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #431
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    ads20101 wrote: »
    The Link:

    https://youtu.be/w38gTVIvzxQ

    Wow, that was extremely impressive. Might be a bit more fight in Corbyn than the right would have you believe!


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    #432
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,800 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    If a particular politician has certain controversial/bad/outdated policies, papers are going to generally focus in on that

    When Corbyn bows out or is ousted.. his supporters are not going to blame his policies, they are going to blame a conspiracy against him, the "establishment", the press and so on


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    #433
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Well, allowing anyone a vote was the point of the reforms labour put in place, so I imagine you may have to wait a while for the CPS to get called in

    19 states in the US have open primaries & people are indeed encouraged to vote.

    Urging people to vote for whom you consider to be the least worthy candidate is low and scummy. Yes or no?


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    #434
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Now if only David Miliband had been elected Labour leader in 2010 (instead of Ed).

    ..then all this Corbyn Red Flag, Militant, Trotskyite, Socialist, 1970s Leftie rubbish could have been avoided.


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    #435
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,991 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Jelle1880 wrote: »

    I think he is good for opposition, but completely unelectable for PM.

    That was the general consensus 6 weeks ago on the leadership race.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #436
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    To be fair that is not the point the media are making, they are making this a 'controversial' appointment because it was not a woman!

    Well if you preach from the safety of the backbenches about women's equality but then when you get the chance appoint your best friend to the top job and give men the other senior jobs, well one cannot be surprised if the media take it up. I suppose its a 'welcome to the big time' moment for Corbyn.


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    #437
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Day 1 and it starts already. Blaming the 'establishment biased' media.
    Ask Cameron or even Nigel Farage what they think of the media. The latter in the past general election was compared to a Facist dictator and every name under the sun used to label him. Not to mention outright lies being published by the Guardian.

    This is the treatment a politician gets when they veer off the center, hence why so many politicians appear to be boring empty vessels with soundbites in mind only where the inclination is to stay on message and say nothing as someone or some group will get offended in this 24 hour media cycle.

    The media is a game, you either play it or die (very GOT!). One can debate the merits of this all they want but it does not only affect Corbyn, it affects everyone hence why people are fed up with 'bland' politics.

    Anyway, Corbyn and his supporters need to put on their big boy pants and get on with it and stop blaming the media already. When he gets turfed out in the coming months/years the blame will lie with him and his supporters not the media or some shadowy establishment.


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    #438
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,029 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    jank wrote: »
    Well if you preach from the safety of the backbenches about women's equality but then when you get the chance appoint your best friend to the top job and give men the other senior jobs, well one cannot be surprised if the media take it up. I suppose its a 'welcome to the big time' moment for Corbyn.

    Which is what I said a while back, my post was in response to djpbarry who is stating that the controversy is because the 'best mate' got it

    The media do not give 2 hoots about the gender balance of anything never mind the shadow cabinet or if the 'best mate / supporter' gets the job so it is all a little contrived


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    #439
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,715 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    jank wrote: »
    The latter in the past general election was compared to a Facist dictator and every name under the sun used to label him. Not to mention outright lies being published by the Guardian.

    What lies? Surely he'd have sued for libel were that the case.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #440
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    The media do not give 2 hoots about the gender balance of anything never mind the shadow cabinet or if the 'best mate / supporter' gets the job so it is all a little contrived

    This may be a bit of a revelation to you, but media in general don't give much of a hoot about anything on any given issue other than whether or not they believe it to be of current interest (i.e. the public want to - or will want to - read about it, thus selling column inches).


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    #441
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Which is what I said a while back, my post was in response to djpbarry who is stating that the controversy is because the 'best mate' got it

    The media do not give 2 hoots about the gender balance of anything never mind the shadow cabinet or if the 'best mate / supporter' gets the job so it is all a little contrived

    The media just construct stories. The story today is hypocrisy.

    The trick is to not give them ammunition. Unfortunately for Corbyn that's exactly what happened.


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    #442
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Which is what I said a while back, my post was in response to djpbarry who is stating that the controversy is because the 'best mate' got it

    The media do not give 2 hoots about the gender balance of anything never mind the shadow cabinet or if the 'best mate / supporter' gets the job so it is all a little contrived

    The media is not there to act as some moral jury and I missed the memo where this was their mandate. One can say the exact same about dozens of issues the media harp on about.


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    #443
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The media just construct stories. The story today is hypocrisy.

    No. They may publish a story with an editorial bias, but generally speaking, stories are not just constructed out of thin air. That's called libel when it gets taken to court.


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    #444
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lemming wrote: »
    No. They may publish a story with an editorial bias, but generally speaking, stories are not just constructed out of thin air. That's called libel when it gets taken to court.

    Why edit out the second line of my post which says not to give them ammunition? Surely that echoes the remainder of your post?


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    #445
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why edit out the second line of my post which says not to give them ammunition? Surely that echoes the remainder of your post?

    Because I wasn't commenting on whether or not someone does or says something that the media might consider worth printing. I was commenting on your notion that the media construct stories.

    But you are right, there is more than enough ammunition for the media on Corbyn already without him foolishly throwing further fuel on the fire. But this is what he put himself forward for, and he can't cry foul as it's no different to what any other politician is susceptible to. The left fringes will of course still see it all as a grand conspiracy.


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    #446
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    jank wrote: »
    Day 1 and it starts already. Blaming the 'establishment biased' media.
    Ask Cameron or even Nigel Farage what they think of the media. The latter in the past general election was compared to a Facist dictator and every name under the sun used to label him. Not to mention outright lies being published by the Guardian.

    Most of the UK newspapers are right-leaning, conservative party mouthpieces. Surely you're heard the derogatory term/ portmanteau 'Torygraph'? Obviously they will treat Corbyn far more harshly than Cameron. Cameron is their darling.
    jank wrote: »
    This is the treatment a politician gets when they veer off the center, hence why so many politicians appear to be boring empty vessels with soundbites in mind only where the inclination is to stay on message and say nothing as someone or some group will get offended in this 24 hour media cycle.

    The media is a game, you either play it or die (very GOT!). One can debate the merits of this all they want but it does not only affect Corbyn, it affects everyone hence why people are fed up with 'bland' politics.

    Anyway, Corbyn and his supporters need to put on their big boy pants and get on with it and stop blaming the media already. When he gets turfed out in the coming months/years the blame will lie with him and his supporters not the media or some shadowy establishment.

    It pains me to say that I agree with this part (most of your comments tend to be written with the explicit intention of provocation).

    Politicians realise that the less they say, the less their words can be used against them. More's the pity.


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    #447
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    To be fair that is not the point the media are making, they are making this a 'controversial' appointment because it was not a woman!
    Well, no. The media are highlighting the fact that all the plum positions went to men, not just the shadow chancellor.


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    #448
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    joseph brand wrote: »
    Most of the UK newspapers are right-leaning, conservative party mouthpieces. Surely you're heard the derogatory term/ portmanteau 'Torygraph'? Obviously they will treat Corbyn far more harshly than Cameron. Cameron is their darling.

    Short term memory there Joseph. The media are not Tory-friendly per-se (other than select papers like the Daily Telegraph Torygraph), or have you forgotten the treatment the tories received at the hands of Blair's government in its early days, or whilst Farage was the media's darling a while back? Far from it. Cameron is only the darling du jouer because it suits. Every single party accuses the media of being against them when it's not going their way.

    Corbyn is going to be treated to a rough ride because .. well ... Corbyn's own actions and history set the backdrop. He has been a deeply divisive figure within Labours own ranks, and unsurprisingly THAT is news.


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    #449
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,715 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Lemming wrote: »
    Short term memory there Joseph. The media are not Tory-friendly per-se (other than select papers like the Daily Telegraph Torygraph), or have you forgotten the treatment the tories received at the hands of Blair's government in its early days, or whilst Farage was the media's darling a while back? Far from it. Cameron is only the darling du jouer because it suits. Every single party accuses the media of being against them when it's not going their way.

    Corbyn is going to be treated to a rough ride because .. well ... Corbyn's own actions and history set the backdrop. He has been a deeply divisive figure within Labours own ranks, and unsurprisingly THAT is news.

    I don't know how old you are Lemming but I wasn't following UK politics during the Blair years so I'll take your word for it. We had the BBC promoting UKIP for a good while during the GE campaigns along with the other right wing outlets. A lot of them went pro-Tory at the end to prevent a Labour victory. The media exists to propagate itself. They'll be happy enough with Cameron until someone more right wing emerges when he steps down.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #450
    Stereomaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 6,166 ✭✭✭Stereomaniac


    The media are a shower of bastards, more or less. It's very hard to trust a lot of the people involved with the print or digital media in this country at any level. Their industry has been changing drastically over the last decade or so and the parameters of what they are prepared to do in order to make money have widened considerably. Political parties should just release their own statements and media through online means, they have the money.


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    #451
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,715 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Apparently, his new Shadow Health minister is pro-Homeopathy (1)... I was expecting better.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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