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Sanctity of Life (Abortion Megathread)

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    #1712
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    credoie wrote: »
    I'm not upset :-) however the facetious questions by those of no faith are ignorant.

    Calling the abortion of an unborn child "fair game" is ignorant.

    Your feedback thread says different;)


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    #1713
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Your feedback thread says different;)

    what feed back Thread?


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    #1714
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    credoie wrote: »
    what feed back Thread?

    Apologies, forum requests <snip> really though.


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    #1715
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    credoie wrote: »
    Why would I debate with you? When you are starting from a base of "fair game" when it comes to abortion. I don't see where a debate with you could lead. It seems to be the same pro-abortion rhetoric that is always used to for their argument.

    When have you tried to debate anything? So far you have soap-boxed your opinions, made unsupported assertions and accusations about Planned Parenthood, made generalised comments about people who are either pro-choice or do not share your faith (not the same thing, by the way) and made it quite clear that you have no intention of answering a straight question with an equally straight answer.

    Give a half-decent argument in support of your position. If you think that life begins at conception then fine, show your workings. If your opinion is based on your faith then we're cool with that, but know that there others on this forum that share your faith but not your opinion.

    If you want to debate then be prepared to back up your arguments and definitely be prepared to concede some if shown to be wrong. If you can't do that, if you think that your position is untouchable, then why bother debating at all?


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    #1716
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    robdonn wrote: »
    made unsupported assertions and accusations about Planned Parenthood,

    Did you see the Videos. Have you not seen the overwhelming support to defund PP. The house didn't do this based on unsupported assertions did they??

    Pro-abortion groups are never happy unless they have a dead child at the end of the process.


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    #1717
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    credoie wrote: »
    Did you see the Videos. Have you not seen the overwhelming support to defund PP. The house didn't do this based on unsupported assertions did they??

    Pro-abortion groups are never happy unless they have a dead child at the end of the process.

    What illegal activity was Planned Parenthood involved with?


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    #1718
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    lazygal wrote: »
    What illegal activity was Planned Parenthood involved with?

    Did you see all the videos?


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    #1719
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    credoie wrote: »
    Did you see the Videos. Have you not seen the overwhelming support to defund PP. The house didn't do this based on unsupported assertions did they??

    Pro-abortion groups are never happy unless they have a dead child at the end of the process.

    So can you provide links to the evidence that the politicans discovered that lead to the move to defund?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1720
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    Delirium wrote: »
    So can you provide links to the evidence that the politicans discovered that lead to the move to defund?

    Did they also need to provide evidence when they wanted to ban slavery or racial segregation. Did you see the videos? Slaughtering children and selling their parts is wrong. They have rights. no matter what laws a country has.


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    #1721
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    credoie wrote: »
    Did you see all the videos?

    I haven't but I presume you have. Can you tell me what the illegality involves?


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    #1722
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    credoie wrote: »
    The house didn't do this based on unsupported assertions did they??

    And there we have confirmation you haven't even bothered to read the thread. Acting on unsupported assertions is exactly what they did/are doing.

    MrP


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    #1723
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    lazygal wrote: »
    I haven't but I presume you have. Can you tell me what the illegality involves?

    Then watch the videos. Its all there, even subtitled. better than me trying to explain.


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    #1724
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    credoie wrote: »
    Then watch the videos. Its all there, even subtitled. better than me trying to explain.

    You're making the claims so you should post the evidence. What proof is in the videos that Planned Parenthood is involved in illegal activity?


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    #1725
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    credoie wrote: »
    Did they also need to provide evidence when they wanted to ban slavery or racial segregation. Did you see the videos? Slaughtering children and selling their parts is wrong. They have rights. no matter what laws a country has.

    I've watched all but the last two. None of them showed children being slaughtered or the selling of tissue.

    I also notice that you're now moving the discussion to "why do we need evidence"?

    Well you made the suggestion that the defunding didn't happen without substantiated claims/evidence. Now you seem to be saying that evidence isn't required.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1726
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    lazygal wrote: »
    You're making the claims so you should post the evidence. What proof is in the videos that Planned Parenthood is involved in illegal activity?

    What the videos. Start to end, its all on the web. then we can discuss.


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    #1727
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    credoie wrote: »
    What the videos. Start to end, its all on the web. then we can discuss.

    All I can conclude from this is that you have no evidence to post.


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    #1728
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    lazygal wrote: »
    All I can conclude from this is that you have no evidence to post.

    No evidence?

    Planned Parenthood admits baby parts sales can make ‘a fair amount of income’

    The video features multiple Planned Parenthood executives: Dr. Carolyn Westhoff, Senior Medical Advisor; Dr. Vanessa Cullins, Vice President for External Medical Affairs; and Deborah VanDerhei, National Director for the Consortium of Abortion Providers.

    Westhoff bemoans the possible P.R. nightmare that would be unleashed if the public were to find out about their illegal activities, while VanDerhei discusses payments for the body parts as “donation for remuneration.”


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    #1729
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    It is perfectly legal to perform abortions and it is legal to be reimbursed for costs with human tissue. Investigations so far have shown that it either isn't happening at that location or no laws are being broken.

    What is illegal is defunding planned parenthood due to some laws around medicaid or something. State funds cant be used for abortions afaik and is used instead for the 97% of services for health stuff. Attempts to defund PP in the past have failed. Either republicans are insane by repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result, or they are just stupid. Either way they have some obsession with removing health services from people. For a group that claims to care about these children they are awfully keen to prevent women receiving checkups while pregnant or cancer screening.


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    #1730
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    watch the videos Lazygal. Maybe it will tug your humanity when you see the reality of what the abortion industry really is.


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    #1731
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    credoie wrote: »
    No evidence?

    Planned Parenthood admits baby parts sales can make ‘a fair amount of income’

    The video features multiple Planned Parenthood executives: Dr. Carolyn Westhoff, Senior Medical Advisor; Dr. Vanessa Cullins, Vice President for External Medical Affairs; and Deborah VanDerhei, National Director for the Consortium of Abortion Providers.

    Westhoff bemoans the possible P.R. nightmare that would be unleashed if the public were to find out about their illegal activities, while VanDerhei discusses payments for the body parts as “donation for remuneration.”

    Where is the source for that cut and paste quote? What is the illegal activity? A PR nightmare isn't a legal term.


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    #1732
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    credoie wrote: »
    watch the videos Lazygal. Maybe it will tug your humanity when you see the reality of what the abortion industry really is.

    What's the alternative to providing women with access to abortion? Enforced pregnancy for all pregnant girls and women, regardless of the risks to their lives?


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    #1733
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    It is perfectly legal to perform abortions and it is legal to be reimbursed for costs with human tissue. Investigations so far have shown that it either isn't happening at that location or no laws are being broken.

    What is illegal is defunding planned parenthood due to some laws around medicaid or something. State funds cant be used for abortions afaik and is used instead for the 97% of services for health stuff. Attempts to defund PP in the past have failed. Either republicans are insane by repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result, or they are just stupid. Either way they have some obsession with removing health services from people. For a group that claims to care about these children they are awfully keen to prevent women receiving checkups while pregnant or cancer screening.

    "Legal" does not mean right. It has been "Legal" to do many things over the years.

    Selling baby parts is not right. Killing a Child is not right.


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    #1734
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    credoie wrote: »
    "Legal" does not mean right. It has been "Legal" to do many things over the years.

    Selling baby parts is not right. Killing a Child is not right.

    Again, what illegal activity has PP been engaging in?


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    #1735
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    credoie wrote: »
    Did you see the Videos. Have you not seen the overwhelming support to defund PP. The house didn't do this based on unsupported assertions did they??

    Yes, unfortunately I did see the videos and saw no evidence for what you, or the GOP, are asserting, simply a misinterpretation of common medical practises. So did they do it based on unsupported assertions? Yes they did.
    credoie wrote: »
    Pro-abortion groups are never happy unless they have a dead child at the end of the process.

    Is this the level of debate that you're looking for?
    credoie wrote: »
    Did they also need to provide evidence when they wanted to ban slavery or racial segregation. Did you see the videos? Slaughtering children and selling their parts is wrong. They have rights. no matter what laws a country has.

    Funny thing, comparing abortion to slavery, considering that denying a woman access to abortion is making her a slave to the state, removing her bodily autonomy and treating her like an incubator.


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    #1736
    robdonn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    credoie wrote: »
    Selling baby parts is not right.

    Who is selling baby parts?


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    #1737
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    lazygal wrote: »
    Again, what illegal activity has PP been engaging in?

    selling baby parts for Profit. (lamborghini's are not cheap. and yes that also appears in the videos)

    They also altered the abortion procedure in order to kill the child in such a way that the organs they wanted could be harvested for sale.


    Aside from the whole killing children business (and yes these are real children with arms, legs, hearts, heads... ) they are human beings with Rights.


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    #1738
    The Randy Riverbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭The Randy Riverbeast


    credoie wrote: »
    "Legal" does not mean right. It has been "Legal" to do many things over the years.

    Selling baby parts is not right. Killing a Child is not right.

    As long as it is legal then nothing can be done with PP. Regardless of what a person thinks, as long as someone isnt breaking the law nothing can be done.

    You would be against the organs from a stillborn being used to save another child's life then? What about adult parts?

    Im sure most people dont think killing a child is right, not everyone agrees what a child is though.


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    #1739
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,488 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    credoie wrote: »
    What the videos. Start to end, its all on the web. then we can discuss.

    Here's a question for you that you won't answer, what good has defunding PP done?


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    #1740
    credoie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 118 ✭✭credoie


    The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »
    As long as it is legal then nothing can be done with PP. Regardless of what a person thinks, as long as someone isnt breaking the law nothing can be done.

    You would be against the organs from a stillborn being used to save another child's life then? What about adult parts?

    Im sure most people dont think killing a child is right, not everyone agrees what a child is though.

    The Children were not still born, Someone took the decision to kill them and another person carried out the act of ending the childs life and cutting it up.

    There is an ocean of difference between ending a childs life and a child dying that could not be saved.

    I have no problem with organ donation, as long as nobody decided to kill the person who is donating the organs.

    We already have a big problem with illegal organ trafficking organ sale.


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    #1741
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,753 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    credoie wrote: »
    selling baby parts for Profit. (lamborghini's are not cheap. and yes that also appears in the videos)
    Misrepresenting a tasteless joke is not evidence.
    They also altered the abortion procedure in order to kill the child in such a way that the organs they wanted could be harvested for sale.
    Where is the proof of these sales?
    Aside from the whole killing children business (and yes these are real children with arms, legs, hearts, heads... ) they are human beings with Rights.
    That's an anti-abortion stance which exists outside of any alledged wrongdoing by PP.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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