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Waterford to ban swearing/smoking in parks

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    #152
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    robtri wrote: »
    ???? makes no sense sorry
    alcohol is in itself is harmless??
    so is vaping really....

    kids see adults drinking alcohol and being told it is in itself harmless could start drinking......
    ??

    Yes, vaping is in itself harmless, but can lead to more harmful things.

    Alcohol doesn't lead to something worse. It is something that can and should be something people can learn to handle.


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    #153
    jonski
    Registered Users Posts: 6,390 ✭✭✭jonski


    katydid wrote: »
    Yes, vaping is in itself harmless, but can lead to more harmful things.


    Have you any evidence at all for this statement ?

    Because I have been following the developments in vaping for the last 18 months and I haven't seen any .


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    #154
    ROCKMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭ROCKMAN


    katydid wrote: »
    Yes, vaping is in itself harmless, but can lead to more harmful things.

    Alcohol doesn't lead to something worse. It is something that can and should be something people can learn to handle.

    WHAT ???
    Are you serious ???


    .


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    #155
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    katydid wrote: »
    Yes, vaping is in itself harmless, but can lead to more harmful things.

    Alcohol doesn't lead to something worse. It is something that can and should be something people can learn to handle.

    Pregnancies, STDs, marriage proposals...the list is endless.


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    #156
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    ROCKMAN wrote: »
    WHAT ???
    Are you serious ???


    .

    I'll rephrase. It needn't. Millions of people drink alcohol every day without the slightest problem.


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    #157
    Gas Jockey
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Gas Jockey


    katydid wrote: »
    I'll rephrase. It needn't. Millions of people drink alcohol every day without the slightest problem.

    True, everything has a toxic level, below which no appreciable harms occur. The body has the ability to recover from the effects of the occasional glass of wine, the occasional cigar or he occasinal joint.


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    #158
    lostboy75
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭lostboy75


    katydid wrote: »
    I'll rephrase. It needn't. Millions of people drink alcohol every day without the slightest problem.

    And the same thing can be said about the vaping surely?

    Oh and as it currently stands I am an ex-smoker, who really dislikes standing around smokers, purely because if the temptation


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    #159
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    lostboy75 wrote: »
    And the same thing can be said about the vaping surely?

    Oh and as it currently stands I am an ex-smoker, who really dislikes standing around smokers, purely because if the temptation

    It can. And I've nothing against vaping per se. It's just that I agree that in a publicly funded space, the state/council has the right to ban it, for the reasons I've said before - a. it can be seen as "cool" and can lead people to smoking, and b. it's impossible for whoever is monitoring this to tell the difference at a distance between a real cigarette and an e-cigarette.

    To be honest, in this case, that is the real problem. I know from my workplace that we had to ban both smoking and vaping, because the hassle and the arguments caused by people trying to figure out whether someone was smoking or not was ridiculous. You had people smoking, who then pulled out an e-cig when you approached them, and claimed that's what they were smoking all along - even though they stank of smoke!


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    #160
    lostboy75
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭lostboy75


    But if you can't tell whether it's a real cig or an e cig, why does it matter it's not affecting you, thats what I can't understand? Two people standing off in the distance having a smoke are not bothering anyone?
    Leave them be,


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    #161
    Kalman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 233 ✭✭Kalman


    thomasm wrote: »
    http://www.newstalk.com/Waterford-City-Council-smoking-cursing-fines-new-rules-children-parks

    Waterford Council has voted in a by law that fines someone cursing in a public park €1,270. Also banning skateboarding and roller blading unless your a council employee.

    Smoking and E-Cigs also banned with effect from July 1st.

    Seems to be put in place to curb anti social behavior. Why not just enforce current laws?

    Nanny council or necessary measure ?

    No idea how to put up a poll for this.

    Huh, easy money! A far bigger threat to one's health are dogs and their excrement>>>it's a minefield out there, the stuff is everywhere, have they banned them?


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    #162
    lertsnim
    Registered Users Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    katydid wrote: »
    I'll rephrase. It needn't. Millions of people drink alcohol every day without the slightest problem.

    But other millions do have problems. I can guarantee they all started off with small amounts. You did hint to vaping leading to bad things, so can small amounts of alcohol.

    Your crusade to ban what doesn't affect you is ridiculous. Are you an ex smoker?


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    #163
    Riverireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 833 ✭✭✭Riverireland


    Why Waterford is what I'm wondering. Heard recently that the train to waterford is the only one in the country that you can't drink alcohol on. Is this true?


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    #164
    Gas Jockey
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Gas Jockey


    lertsnim wrote: »
    Are you an ex smoker?

    This question keeps coming up. it's kinda irrelevant, as the arguments will stand or fall on their own merits. it's a cop-out to dismiss someone's argument based on their smoking history.


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    #165
    lertsnim
    Registered Users Posts: 9,728 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    Gas Jockey wrote: »
    This question keeps coming up. it's kinda irrelevant, s the arguments will stand of fall on their own merits. it's a cop-out to dismiss someone's argument based on their smoking history.

    It's not irrelevant as it is usually an ex smoker that goes beyond all comprehension to ban it and in this case anything that looks like it.


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    #166
    Gas Jockey
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Gas Jockey


    lertsnim wrote: »
    It's not irrelevant as it is usually an ex smoker that goes beyond all comprehension to ban it and in this case anything that looks like it.

    Perhaps, but if they can't substantiateor reference their arguments it doesn't really matter whether they smoke or not. Would their arguments be any more or less valid if, for example, they had lost a family member to a smoking related disease?
    Not really.just adds emotional heat rather than anything of use.


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    #167
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    lostboy75 wrote: »
    But if you can't tell whether it's a real cig or an e cig, why does it matter it's not affecting you, thats what I can't understand? Two people standing off in the distance having a smoke are not bothering anyone?
    Leave them be,

    If the law says that smoking is illegal, the people who enforce it have to be able to do so without hassle.


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    #168
    jonski
    Registered Users Posts: 6,390 ✭✭✭jonski


    katydid wrote: »
    If the law says that smoking is illegal, the people who enforce it have to be able to do so without hassle.

    The law says breaking the speed limit is illegal , but we don't ban all cars just because we can't obviously tell what speed they are going .


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    #169
    lostboy75
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭lostboy75


    I am bowing out of this conversation as its pointless trying to deal with jobworths. Some people just like a little power trip, they need to be careful though in moderation it can be ok, but overindulgence can be harmful, you will end up a politician


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    #170
    Gas Jockey
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Gas Jockey


    katydid wrote: »
    If the law says that smoking is illegal, the people who enforce it have to be able to do so without hassle.

    People who enforce anything will always face some hassle. The question is whether they are capable if telling what has actually happened. From what you had said, it would seem logical to ban prople from chewing on white coloured pens, because from a distance they might look like cigarettes.


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    #171
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Gas Jockey wrote: »
    People who enforce anything will always face some hassle. The question is whether they are capable if telling what has actually happened. From what you had said, it would seem logical to ban prople from chewing on white coloured pens, because from a distance they might look like cigarettes.
    Pens don't emit smoke... If you haven't been in a position of trying to police a no-smoking policy and dealing with e-cigs, you have no idea what it's like.


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    #172
    Gas Jockey
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Gas Jockey


    katydid wrote: »
    Pens don't emit smoke... If you haven't been in a position of trying to police a no-smoking policy and dealing with e-cigs, you have no idea what it's like.

    That's fair.


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    #173
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    Well this is what I witnessed in the park some weeks ago .

    A group of about about 60 youths arrived at the bandstand , most looked under age 18 and most were carrying beer cans / cases of cans .

    They started carrying on at the bandstand and even set fire to school uniforms .

    I saw them throwing bottles / empty cans into the trees on their way to the stand .

    Many people out for a leisurely stroll made a quick exit including ourselves .

    As we were driving away , there was an SUV in front of us , and he stopped and handed a case of beer to a chap that looked no more than 16. ( I only presume this was a parent )


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    #174
    7upfree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭7upfree


    katydid wrote: »
    Lots of things have been in our society for decades. It doesn't mean they are good or acceptable. In fact, smoking has been part of our society for centuries, not decades. When it was first invented, they thought it was a cure for lung disease! We and science have moved on a bit since then.

    I've asked several times how it's different from shooting up heroin. No answer. They are both drugs, both have no benefits and lots of dangers. Should we allow shooting up in public because the park is a recreation area?

    You're getting a little hysterical there really. Someone having a casual cig on their lunch break vs a heroin addict shooting up - MAJOR difference.


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    #175
    7upfree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭7upfree


    katydid wrote: »
    Alcohol doesn't lead to something worse. It is something that can and should be something people can learn to handle.
    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:


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    #176
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,000 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    katydid wrote: »
    Pens don't emit smoke... If you haven't been in a position of trying to police a no-smoking policy and dealing with e-cigs, you have no idea what it's like.

    Neither do e-cigs ......

    Your company wants a no-smoking policy and cannot enforce it without also banning other actions. This makes a mockery of an unenforceable policy.
    It is not reasonable on any level to ban vaping only because your 'enforcers' are unable to tell the difference.

    ***

    I see no reason to ban smoking out of doors.
    Banning it on its alleged harm to others near-by would indicate that all combustion engined vehicles should be banned where there are people.

    In fact it would probably make more sense to ban the cars and lorries as they contribute much more pollution to the air we breathe than all the smokers possibly could.

    Having visited several hospitals in the recent past I am 'amused' to see 'smoke free campus' signs prominently displayed, and cars trundling past emitting all sorts of health-damaging 'smoke'.

    WCC have 'lost the run of themselves'.
    These by-laws are idiotic in the extreme.

    I can only hope that someone has the time, inclination and money to challenge them ....... for the sake of ALL people who wish to enjoy a lovely park.

    .


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    #177
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    just food for thought
    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vaping-health-risks-ecigarettes-could-be-more-dangerous-than-we-think-scientists-warn-10180878.html


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    #178
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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    #179
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,000 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    robtri wrote: »
    just food for thought
    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vaping-health-risks-ecigarettes-could-be-more-dangerous-than-we-think-scientists-warn-10180878.html

    It would be interesting if you could quote one definitive statement from that 'study' ....... one without 'may' or 'might' or similar.

    BTW there was a discussion on drugs on Primetime tonight on RTE 1 ...... now coming on to RTE 1+1.


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    #180
    Gas Jockey
    Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭Gas Jockey


    This is a good review of the evidence to date on e-cigarettes. There's a bit in it but it's thorough.
    http://www.vox.com/2015/6/26/8832337/e-cigarette-health-fda-smoking-safety


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    #181
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 14,000 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Gas Jockey wrote: »
    This is a good review of the evidence to date on e-cigarettes. There's a bit in it but it's thorough.
    http://www.vox.com/2015/6/26/8832337/e-cigarette-health-fda-smoking-safety

    Yes and this sums it all up
    Even if e-cigarettes are safer than regular cigarettes, that doesn't mean they're totally safe. At this point, we just don't know.

    It also means there is no indication that vaping is not totally safe.


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