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2015 Leinster Senior Hurling Final: Galway v. Kilkenny ; Croke Park; 5th July @16:00

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    #92
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    to win the premier league you have to play 38. this is a good indication of how good a team is because there are a lot of games to psyche yourself up for. and psychology is very important in how teams play. now the less the amount of games you play the easier it is to psyche yourself up.

    second of all, each team plays the same number of games. so there are no idiosyncrasies.

    with the hurling, kilkenny have three tough games. someone in munster will have maybe five. its out of sync. added to the fact that there isnt even enough games to see how good a team really is.

    the system is stupid. kilkenny produce the best hurlers in the country no question. but they are not properly tested as a team because they play few games. if you really want to test how good a team is brian clough used say, you test them over the course of 38 games. anybody can play good one or two matches because they psyche themselves up for it. can they psyche themselves up for 20 odd matches.

    now 38 games would seem a bit high. i think something like the champions league (13 games for the winner) would be better. that would really test their mettle.

    i enjoy the hurling more to watch than the football, but the team that wins the football has a greater achievement. they have to play more tough games


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    #93
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    Mountainlad wrote: »
    That line about not rating what Cody has done is the most stupid thing I've read in 6 years posting on this forum.

    you havent read much then


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    #94
    windy shepard henderson
    Registered Users Posts: 5,814 ✭✭✭windy shepard henderson


    yes kilkenny are good but on the theory that you couldnt rate brian cody who could yoou rate

    maybe what kilkenny should do is maybe offer the job out in a celebrity bainisteoir style of management , you could have your man frank from the brides of franc for the semi final , and maybe bella from fair city in the final as manager


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    #95
    Very Bored
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Roquentin wrote: »
    to win the premier league you have to play 38. this is a good indication of how good a team is because there are a lot of games to psyche yourself up for. and psychology is very important in how teams play. now the less the amount of games you play the easier it is to psyche yourself up.

    second of all, each team plays the same number of games. so there are no idiosyncrasies.

    with the hurling, kilkenny have three tough games. someone in munster will have maybe five. its out of sync. added to the fact that there isnt even enough games to see how good a team really is.

    the system is stupid. kilkenny produce the best hurlers in the country no question. but they are not properly tested as a team because they play few games. if you really want to test how good a team is brian clough used say, you test them over the course of 38 games. anybody can play good one or two matches because they psyche themselves up for it. can they psyche themselves up for 20 odd matches.

    now 38 games would seem a bit high. i think something like the champions league (13 games for the winner) would be better. that would really test their mettle.

    i enjoy the hurling more to watch than the football, but the team that wins the football has a greater achievement. they have to play more tough games

    Your argument is all too stereotypical. Stereotypical of a soccer fan who only watches hurling during the summer because the Premier League is on hiatus. Which explains your denigration and lack of understanding of the contribution Brian Cody has made to hurling and the GAA over nearly 20 years. If you want to criticise him, even after all he has achieved, you'd be better off taking the tact that he has been seriously helped by the players he has had under his control over that time. You'd still be wrong but your argument would make more sense.


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    #96
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    cody is the greatest manager no question. i just dont rate highly his achievements, because the system is set up for him to do well. if kilkenny had to play at least ten games every season and they achieved what they achieved, then yes i would say, fair dues to him.

    but when kilkenny only have to play three hard games each season (two when they were dominating) i say to myself, its easy for them to win, with the collection of hurlers they have and given how few games they have to play


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    #97
    ceegee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,233 ✭✭✭ceegee


    Roquentin wrote: »
    the whole thing is a farce tbh. kilkenny to win the top prize in hurling only play three serious games (leinster final, SF and Final). when they were dominating a few years ago they only played two games. it was a joke. I wouldnt rate what cody has done at all. its tailor made for them to succeed in.

    its very easy to psyche yourself up for two games. it would be a lot harder if you had to play 30 games over a season, to psyche yourself up for each game.

    Now the negative is that if they were to make a league out of it, the games would lose their intensity. But if a team really wants to win on merit they have to A) play more games ( at least ten in my books) and B) each team must play the same number of games)

    a team from munster to win the all ireland may have to play five hard games, whereas kilkenny would only have to play two. the system is a joke and set up for them to succeed and it is so easy for kilkenny to dominate because they only play 2/3 matches. if this were a competition wherein you play 10 games each, they wouldnt dominate because psychological wise they wouldnt be able to psyche themselves up for each game.



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    #98
    Mountainlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    You rate his achievements highly enough for him to be the greatest manager of all time though...that's fairly high in a 127 year old competition.


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    #99
    Very Bored
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Roquentin wrote: »
    cody is the greatest manager no question. i just dont rate highly his achievements, because the system is set up for him to do well. if kilkenny had to play at least ten games every season and they achieved what they achieved, then yes i would say, fair dues to him.

    but when kilkenny only have to play three hard games each season (two when they were dominating) i say to myself, its easy for them to win, with the collection of hurlers they have and given how few games they have to play

    Why are you rattling on about playing ten games? Say Kilkenny played ten games and dominated eight of them would you then be calling for us to play twenty? Anyway, the championship isn't set up for any team to play ten games. It just doesn't work like that. Anyway, if its all set up for Kilkenny to win every year why is it only since Cody came in that we have dominated to this extent?


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    #100
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭randd1


    Roquentin wrote: »
    to win the premier league you have to play 38. this is a good indication of how good a team is because there are a lot of games to psyche yourself up for. and psychology is very important in how teams play. now the less the amount of games you play the easier it is to psyche yourself up.

    second of all, each team plays the same number of games. so there are no idiosyncrasies.

    with the hurling, kilkenny have three tough games. someone in munster will have maybe five. its out of sync. added to the fact that there isnt even enough games to see how good a team really is.

    the system is stupid. kilkenny produce the best hurlers in the country no question. but they are not properly tested as a team because they play few games. if you really want to test how good a team is brian clough used say, you test them over the course of 38 games. anybody can play good one or two matches because they psyche themselves up for it. can they psyche themselves up for 20 odd matches.

    now 38 games would seem a bit high. i think something like the champions league (13 games for the winner) would be better. that would really test their mettle.

    i enjoy the hurling more to watch than the football, but the team that wins the football has a greater achievement. they have to play more tough games

    You do realise you are comparing professional soccer to amateur hurling?

    As for the premier league, didn't Chelski walk away with that in much the same way United did for 20 years?

    And all more games would just mean more wins for Kilkenny.


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    #101
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭randd1


    Roquentin wrote: »
    cody is the greatest manager no question. i just dont rate highly his achievements, because the system is set up for him to do well. if kilkenny had to play at least ten games every season and they achieved what they achieved, then yes i would say, fair dues to him.

    but when kilkenny only have to play three hard games each season (two when they were dominating) i say to myself, its easy for them to win, with the collection of hurlers they have and given how few games they have to play

    How often does your county win the AI? I'll think you find it's very hard to do.


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    #102
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    randd1 wrote: »
    You do realise you are comparing professional soccer to amateur hurling?

    As for the premier league, didn't Chelski walk away with that in much the same way United did for 20 years?

    And all more games would just mean more wins for Kilkenny.

    this is it. to really measure how good they are, they would have to play much more games. when you have to play three games to win the top prize in hurling, i dont think that is enough games to truly test a team. i think it should be at least 12 games.

    psychology is a powerful tool. it is easy for kilkenny to motivate themselves for two games as a pose to 12. thus we would see a better reflection of them over 12 games than over two.

    they completely destroyed galway today and missed a tonne of wides. they were much better. all im saying is i would prefer to see that over 12 games and not three.


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    #103
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    randd1 wrote: »
    How often does your county win the AI? I'll think you find it's very hard to do.

    im from kilkenny


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    #104
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    they should change the system into a champions league format. two groups of five and all play the same number of games.


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    #105
    The White Feather
    Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭The White Feather


    Roquentin wrote: »
    im from kilkenny


    A twist ending :eek:


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    #106
    Very Bored
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Roquentin wrote: »
    this is it. to really measure how good they are, they would have to play much more games. when you have to play three games to win the top prize in hurling, i dont think that is enough games to truly test a team. i think it should be at least 12 games.

    psychology is a powerful tool. it is easy for kilkenny to motivate themselves for two games as a pose to 12. thus we would see a better reflection of them over 12 games than over two.

    they completely destroyed galway today and missed a tonne of wides. they were much better. all im saying is i would prefer to see that over 12 games and not three.

    We have ten, ten, the fella at the back in the Cody is rubbish tshirt, will anyone give me eleven, eleven, anyone... twelve, the fella at the back in the Cody is rubbish tshirt, twelve, will anyone give me thirteen, thirteen??? Going once, going twice...


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    #107
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Roquentin wrote: »
    to win the premier league you have to play 38. this is a good indication of how good a team is because there are a lot of games to psyche yourself up for. and psychology is very important in how teams play. now the less the amount of games you play the easier it is to psyche yourself up.

    second of all, each team plays the same number of games. so there are no idiosyncrasies.

    with the hurling, kilkenny have three tough games. someone in munster will have maybe five. its out of sync. added to the fact that there isnt even enough games to see how good a team really is.

    the system is stupid. kilkenny produce the best hurlers in the country no question. but they are not properly tested as a team because they play few games. if you really want to test how good a team is brian clough used say, you test them over the course of 38 games. anybody can play good one or two matches because they psyche themselves up for it. can they psyche themselves up for 20 odd matches.

    now 38 games would seem a bit high. i think something like the champions league (13 games for the winner) would be better. that would really test their mettle.

    i enjoy the hurling more to watch than the football, but the team that wins the football has a greater achievement. they have to play more tough games

    Solely league based competitions are not often a good indication of who the best team is.All you have to do to win a European soccer league is beat all the mediocre teams and you don't need to raise your level above that.

    League followed by playoffs like they have in all the American sports have is the best judge.As you have to have consistency and rise to the occassion.

    Kilkenny play 4 games per season to win the championship the Munster champions play the same amount.


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    #108
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    the system is a joke folks. you have teams knocked out coming back in and then teams playing a different number of games. its a farce. there needs to be more symmetry


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    #109
    windy shepard henderson
    Registered Users Posts: 5,814 ✭✭✭windy shepard henderson


    Roquentin wrote: »
    this is it. to really measure how good they are, they would have to play much more games. when you have to play three games to win the top prize in hurling, i dont think that is enough games to truly test a team. i think it should be at least 12 games.

    psychology is a powerful tool. it is easy for kilkenny to motivate themselves for two games as a pose to 12. thus we would see a better reflection of them over 12 games than over two.

    they completely destroyed galway today and missed a tonne of wides. they were much better. all im saying is i would prefer to see that over 12 games and not three.

    there is already a league structure in the gaa in which over the years you had to play anything up to 10 games to win it , and kilkenny have more of them won as well

    the problem is not enugh teams put it up to kilkenny enough , cork behind the secens are not doing enough at the moment to get themselves back up changeling , tipperary and clare are doing there best to stay with them but after that over the last few years no one has really came close to wining an allireland

    and before people go on about the structure or the championship being the problem , it was'nt back in the 90's when a different county was nearly wining each year


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    #110
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭randd1


    Roquentin wrote: »
    im from kilkenny

    And you don't rate Cody? You must be an O'Loughlins man.

    As for the winning more games argument, how many league titles have Kilkenny won under Cody? 7 or 8? Way more than anyone else that's for sure.


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    #111
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Solely league based competitions are not often a good indication of who the best team is.All you have to do to win a European soccer league is beat all the mediocre teams and you don't need to raise your level above that.

    League followed by playoffs like they have in all the American sports have is the best judge.As you have to have consistency and rise to the occassion.

    Kilkenny play 4 games per season to win the championship the Munster champions play the same amount.

    kilkenny are playing teams who cant hurl. they steam roll them. kilkenny when they dominated only had to play two tough games to win the biggest prize in hurling (the SF and final)


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    #112
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    they need to play at least 12 games


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    #113
    Very Bored
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Roquentin wrote: »
    the system is a joke folks. you have teams knocked out coming back in and then teams playing a different number of games. its a farce. there needs to be more symmetry

    You start with a very ill-informed statement about Cody. You then say you want ten matches, then you want twelve, now you say you don't want the backdoor which would make for less matches. Sorry, but the farcical thing here is your argument, can we go back to talking about the match today please?


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    #114
    KM88
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭KM88


    WallyGUFC wrote: »
    It's up to teams like Galway and Dublin to get up to Kilkenny's level

    It's not a 3-way championship you know. :eek:

    Tipp, Cork, Waterford, Wexford, Laois, Offaly, Limerick, Clare, etc might feel a bit insulted by that comment.

    They are all traditional hurling counties where hurling is a proud tradition and are still credible contenders.


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    #115
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Roquentin wrote: »
    kilkenny are playing teams who cant hurl. they steam roll them. kilkenny when they dominated only had to play two tough games to win the biggest prize in hurling (the SF and final)

    Kilkenny would steam roll all the teams in Munster apart from Tipp currently so it doesn't make any difference what province they are in.


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    #116
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Kilkenny would steam roll all the teams in Munster apart from Tipp currently so it doesn't make any difference what province they are in.

    they wouldnt limerick put it up to them last season


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    #117
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭randd1


    Roquentin wrote: »
    they need to play at least 12 games

    Between league and championship they usually do. And still usually beat everyone.

    In the championship alone, I think Galway have as good a record as the Munster counties combined in the Cody era, so it's not as if the "if they were in Munster they wouldn't have won as much" argument works either.

    Kilkenny win because 9 times out if 10, or 11 times out of 12 for yourself, they're better than the opposition.


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    #118
    skaface
    Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭skaface


    The Kilkenny forward took 8 steps before he offloaded the ball to TJ Reid.. Is that what you mean by steam rolling??
    Should have been a free out


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    #119
    randd1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭randd1


    Roquentin wrote: »
    they wouldnt limerick put it up to them last season

    And still got beaten.


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    #120
    Very Bored
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    skaface wrote: »
    The Kilkenny forward took 8 steps before he offloaded the ball to TJ Reid.. Is that what you mean by steam rolling??
    Should have been a free out

    Swings and roundabouts, Padraig Mannion should have been sent off instead of only being yellowed.


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    #121
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    the league is a different mentality. most teams arent even in full gear. they should do away with the league and just have a championship wherein they play 12 games. we will see how good they are then


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