Episode 5x10: 'Mother's Mercy' - READERS thread

MrWalsh

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Anyone else bothered by the Arya face thing. Did she just take a face from the rack and slap it on? Seems a bit too easy. That whole plot line seems unnecessarily riddly and complex.

It was the face of the young girl who she gave death to earlier in the season.

They didnt really explain how she came by the knowledge to do it tbh.

I wasnt fond of the snatching of the many faces off the dead guy, they just disappeared when she took them, but the one she wore was physical.

Mr Freeze

MrWalsh wrote: »

I wasnt fond of the snatching of the many faces off the dead guy, they just disappeared when she took them, but the one she wore was physical.

Oh that was brutal.

It was like something from Mission Impossible or Scooby Doo.

MrWalsh

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Oh that was brutal.

It was like something from Mission Impossible or Scooby Doo.

Im not sure I understood what was going on (or supposed to be going on) in that scene tbh.

PopePalpatine

I think the intention is to make Arya feel alone.

Daith

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I think the intention is to make Arya feel alone.

True.

I tend to judge the show on it's own merits but the books really do it better. No matter how much Arya tries to be "no one" a part of her is still in the Riverlands leading a pack and being a Stark. Not sure if the show will be able to go down this route.

MrWalsh

I did see a funny comment on Reddit.

A man approaches Stannis and says "half the men deserted, they took all the horses".

A couple of minutes later a man approaches Stannis and says "The red woman was seen riding away from camp"

On what? A bicycle?

Lyssa

MrWalsh wrote: »

I did see a funny comment on Reddit.

A man approaches Stannis and says "half the men deserted, they took all the horses".

A couple of minutes later a man approaches Stannis and says "The red woman was seen riding away from camp"

On what? A bicycle?

The night is dark, and full of horses.... :rolleyes:

Taboola

I enjoyed the episode and enjoyed the season as a whole.

I don't get why there's so much negativity about it.

awec

For all the talk of Kit Harrington saying he's definitely not coming back for season 6, I wonder if the Wall story will just be parked next season (like Bran and the Iron Islands this season).

It could end up like the books where specific storylines are focused on.

Sleepy

MrWalsh wrote: »

This is a bit coulda woulda shoulda.

I cant saw Ive seen any "excuses" for anything this season? Im not really sure what you are referring to - are you saying the producers are apologising after the fact for particular episodes - despite this being a hugely successful production?

I dont agree that lots of scenes this season didnt work. A handful over 10 episodes, but more than made up for with the rest IMO.

I loved all the previous seasons but this one has had a notable drop-off in quality: the Teenage Ninja Dornish Sand Snakes (in fact, the entire Dornish sup-plot) and the handling of Stannis in particular.

Why do you think an actress invoking a non nudity clause is about prudishness? Theres lots a reasons an actor or actress doesnt do nudity. I think its important to respect the choice of anyone who doesnt want to do it. I dont have to get my kit off when I go to work and frankly if I did Id be looking for a different job!

Are you an actress playing a character who has to make a naked walk of atonement in season 5 of the series? Nope, didn't think so. What other reason is there to invoke a non-nudity clause than prudery? I agree that no-one should be forced to do nude scenes but at the same time, you shouldn't hire someone to play a role which necessitates it if they want to invoke such a clause.

All that said, it's the decision to do the scene with CGI that annoys me. Either hire an actress prepared to commit to the role or if you truly feel the only person for that role is an actress who won't do it, film her doing the scene in a way that protects her modesty. Don't piss away the budget on unnecessary CGI when there's plenty of other areas you could invest it for a far greater return. Like a competent script writer / second unit for the Dorne scenes or to stretch the season to another episode (granted that would have required far more savings than they could have made from this one scene but you get the point). Even spending the extra few quid on the CGI of Danaerys riding Drogon would have been a better return.

Perhaps if theyd saved money on this scene they would have spent it on another scene that people moan unnecessarily about?

If people dont enjoy the show then, switch it off?

I loved all the previous seasons but this one has had a notable drop-off in quality. It's changing from a show that was on a par with the best television of all time (e.g. The Wire, The Sopranos or Breaking Bad) to one that's about on a par with The Walking Dead or Spartacus and I think that's a disservice to the source material, to previous seasons and to the fans.

The really annoying thing is that it's seemingly being done purely to try and wrap things up in 7 seasons instead of taking the 8/9 seasons it clearly needs (and that HBO want).

awec

To be fair, the later books also slowed down significantly. Parts of the later books were honestly pretty mundane and seemed to contain a few pointless storylines that end up going nowhere.

tipparetops

too rushed, everything this series is too rushed.
I had to watch the last episode twice.
The show goes from brilliant to Xena style carry on.

amos13

Valar Morghulis.

I'm now more convinced than ever that the white walkers will win the eventual battle. Maybe they aren't evil but are the ones saving the realm from people. So we keep hearing all men must die assuming that it's just a phrase people say when someone dies but what if GRRM means that in the end, everyone dies, and he's been telling us all along it would happen and we didn't realise. Coldhands didn't exactly seem evil did he?

To be honest unless they resurrect jon I have nobody living left to root for.

Mr. Incognito

MrWalsh wrote: »

As far as I can tell people complain no matter what they do. Some people should just stop watching the show. If it infuriates you so much that you are complaining every episode - then why watch it? There are many posters in this forum who do nothing but complain.

And that should tell you something- It's the READERS thread.

That's people that have a lot invested in the books and want it to suceed.

The reason that they got to book five and have re-read them in a lot of instances is that the characters are interesting and people are invested in them.

There are a lot of people complaining because they have departed from the books. Everyone knows that you have to cut material for TV, Fine.

But rewriting whole tracts of the character arcs should be done for a reason.

The reasons appear to be laziness and are very very sloppy.

1. Arya being able to wear other faces. Blinded by magic- off on a rampage.

Didn't happen in the books. It's shoddy writing.

2. Brienne of Tarth in the North, sitting under a window looking for a candle, cut to middle of deserted wood with everyone dead bar two raiders who die and lets have an execution

Didn't happen in the books. It's shoddy writing.

3. Jamie and Bronn go visit Zena.

Didn't happen in the books. It's shoddy writing.

4. Sansa Stark in Winterfell

Didn't happen in the books. It's shoddy writing.

5. Jon off to collect the Wildlings, strolls back to leave them through and then gets killed for that

Didn't happen in the books. It's shoddy writing. The actual reason for his death at the hands of the watch- attempting to march on winterfell -made sense. This traitor tombstone did not.

6. Stannis, the iron-willed, survivor of sieges, lifter of the onion knight, murders his daughter?? Then commits tactical suicide.

Didn't happen in the books. It's shoddy writing. Utterly utterly unforgivable to assisinate his character like that in two tripe episodes


One or two, fine. But practically every single character arc has been totally destroyed in this season, in the laziest, stupidest most TV cliche way possible.

Oh look, she's lighting the candle, Noooooooooooooo

Oh look, Benjen Stark is back, Nooooooooooooo

Oh look, Tits in a jail and throw in a bad **** reference Noooooooooooo

When you have amazing amazing amazing source material and sticking to that has made you sucessful to depart from it, well led to a shoddy rushed crap product.

If people, even the majority want to complain, it's because there is A LOT to complain about.

I am so angry they made such a balls of it.

Mickeroo

Dorne was the only part that was inferior to the books for me. Apart from a lot of the stuff last night being too rushed I thought they did a good job overall of adapting two fairly bloated uneventful books, I think the show will improve next year again when if the story starts pushing on with a bit more purpose. Most of the big changes have been welcome, Sansa's storyline in particular is much better.

Daith

Mickeroo wrote: »

Dorne was the only part that was inferior to the books for me. Apart from a lot of the stuff last night being too rushed I thought they did a good job overall of adapting two fairly bloated uneventful books, I think the show will improve next year again when if the story starts pushing on with a bit more purpose. Most of the big changes have been welcome, Sansa's storyline in particular is much better.

I'm not sure about Sansa given it's almost a retread of her Joffrey stuff.

Dorne has been a big let down I'd agree.

The books have been spinning their wheels for a long time now. Getting Tyrion to Dany and Meeren is much better than the books.

Eugene Norman

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

One or two, fine. But practically every single character arc has been totally destroyed in this season, in the laziest, stupidest most TV cliche way possible.

Oh look, she's lighting the candle, Noooooooooooooo



I am so angry they made such a balls of it.

The tv show is clearly way ahead of the books in many cases, and probably the books will catch up. And the quality of writing in the books dropped off in the last few anyway. As a reader of the books ( and I mean before the TV series, most readers came to them after), I am happy enough, since the last two books were ponderous.

Daith

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The tv show is clearly way ahead of the books in many cases. And the quality of writing in the books dropped off in the last few anyway. As a reader of the books ( and I mean before the TV series, most readers came to them after), I am happy enough.

Agreed though maybe that's because I don't give a crap about Lady Stoneheart, the Iron Islands, FAgeon, and others.

Jamie's trip through the Riverlands is something I missed but it still could happen.

amos13

Taboola wrote:

I enjoyed the episode and enjoyed the season as a whole.

Taboola wrote:

I don't get why there's so much negativity about it.

Personally speaking, I found it boring apart from a tiny amount of shocking scenes, which were inserted just to shock rather than to develop the story.

I wouldn't mind the omission of the riverlands arc if dorne had of been interesting, but the riverlands would have been infinitely better than that tripe. We could have just heard on the grapevine that Myrcella had been killed. Nobody would have batted an eyelid.

I'm no prude, but the show runners OBSESSION with raping/ battering/ destroying women and young girls in EVERY episode is shameful. They should take a serious look at themselves, its not in the book, its not necessary for the story, its just their own perverted view of what is good TV.

As others have said, deviations from source are fine and to be expected if they further the plot, condense it for time constraints etc. But to remove vital characters to save screen time for minor characters and rape scenes is just, ugh.

Daith

amos13 wrote: »

I'm no prude, but the show runners OBSESSION with raping/ battering/ destroying women and young girls in EVERY episode is shameful. They should take a serious look at themselves, its not in the book, its not necessary for the story, its just their own perverted view of what is good TV.

Eh, isn't there a part in the books where Ramsey is talking about Fake Arya screwing a dog? Or Theon "helping her". Lady Hornwood eating her own fingers? Blame the source here. The Sansa stuff was pretty tame in the show.

PopePalpatine

I'm just wondering right now - how did the Small Council and the powers that be in King's Landing react to Jon becoming Lord Commander? I know it wasn't covered in the show, but what about the books?

Jon Stark

I vaguely recollect reading a rumour that the Riverlands will be making a return next season alongside the Iron Islands.

Daith

Jon Stark wrote: »

I vaguely recollect reading a rumour that the Riverlands will be making a return next season alongside the Iron Islands.

Having Jamie going through the Riverlands (after the apparent death of his daughter) would be a pretty good idea if they can get the introspective right.

amos13

Yeah I remember those references, but they were just that, references. They weren't graphic and they weren't pervasive through the series. I also recall Jamie/ Cersei, Dany/ Drogo etc having sex and not rape. The changes were unnecessary for the plot.

Daith

amos13 wrote: »

Yeah I remember those references, but they were just that, references. They weren't graphic and they weren't pervasive through the series.

Kinda of a difference between TV and a book though? Women being treated like **** has been a running theme of the books.

amos13 wrote: »

I also recall Jamie/ Cersei, Dany/ Drogo etc having sex and not rape. The changes were unnecessary for the plot.

I don't think there's any real difference between Dany/Drogo (at the start) and Ramsey/Sansa tbh. What happens to Fake Arya in the books is much worse than what happened to Sansa in the show.

awec

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm just wondering right now - how did the Small Council and the powers that be in King's Landing react to Jon becoming Lord Commander? I know it wasn't covered in the show, but what about the books?

As far as I remember there was no (or little) reaction to it in the books.

PopePalpatine

I was reading through the non-readers' thread, and one poster asked what was the point of Myranda threatening Sansa with the bow and arrow. I would imagine that Myranda would probably shoot Sansa in the leg, thus crippling her...and I very much doubt anyone in House Bolton will care as long as she can still produce an heir.

ArmaniJeanss

awec wrote: »

As far as I remember there was no (or little) reaction to it in the books.

Didn't Cersei have some convoluted plot to send Osnftyd Kettleback to kill Jon?

Mr Freeze

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

And that should tell you something- It's the READERS thread.

That's people that have a lot invested in the books and want it to suceed.
.
.
.
If people, even the majority want to complain, it's because there is A LOT to complain about.

I am so angry they made such a balls of it.

Its like you were in my head and managed to say everything I couldn't.:pac:

Could not agree more!

Son0vagun

It just occurred to me, there's no way Brienne would kill Stannis, no way she'd become a King Slayer. She ridiculed Jaime for being just that. I'm going with Stannis is alive.