Episode 5x10: 'Mother's Mercy' - READERS thread

Ok, I can't wait any longer, the hype train is fully boarded and awaiting departure. Even with early starts ahead tomorrow morning, we're gonna try and stay up here tonight to watch Sky Atlantic's live feed.

For those interested, HBO released the 'Previously on GoT...' footage which will precede tonight's finale. This footage usually serves to point at where the episode is going character-wise and/or to remind viewers of storylines/characters which have been out of the picture for a bit.

Well, in the below video there is some footage which already has certain corners of the internet frothing at the mouth. Even with my cautious, skeptical eye, I am interested in why this character is prominent in this 'Previously on...' footage...

Obviously, I'm keeping this spoiler free as there are some book-readers who rightfully don't want to see a preview or anything ahead of this episode. And for those who have viewed it, I'm talking about

***Benjen Stark***

and not

Silvio Forel, who is only there to build up Arya v Meryn Trant

The hype is huge, it would be impossible to live up to it, but here's hoping for a strong episode.

'What Is Hype May Never Die'

What times here does this air in the usa?

Peregrine

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What times here does this air in the usa?

It started at 2.

Nim

Nim wrote: »

It started at 2.

Thanks.

Lyssa

Nooooooooooooo

Peregrine

I've never felt more trolled in my life

Jijsaw

Damn it, have to wait another year now!

Messi19

Loose ends all over the place. At least Mel is back at castle black

FunLover18

Is there be hope to be taken from the fact that we didn't see Stannis die?

Brienne is terrible at keeping oaths, can't believe she gave Jaime so much schtick.

Messi19

FunLover18 wrote: »

Is there be hope to be taken from the fact that we didn't see Stannis die?

Brienne is terrible at keeping oaths, can't believe she gave Jaime so much schtick.

I'd doubt it. She was mid swing when the scene cut

Peregrine

FunLover18 wrote: »

Is there be hope to be taken from the fact that we didn't see Stannis die?

I don't think so. She was about to kill him before they cut the scene. Him coming back from that isn't like Game of Thrones(Edit: Jon being, hopefully, the exception with Melissandre's return and red priests alibities already shown). Most of Stannis' scenes near Winterfell was off camera anyway.

I never thought I'd be glad to watch Stannis' whole army fall apart around him.

IrishTrajan

Messi19 wrote: »

I'd doubt it. She was mid swing when the scene cut

And he was at a tree. She could've struck the tree, and I doubt D&D would kill off such a major character without the gratuitous violence they're known for.

That entire battle scene seemed rushed and pointless. Stannis was a proven commander, and knew the Boltons had an army at Winterfell. He wouldn't have sat in the open, he would've positioned his army along the tree line. Him announcing they were going to start a siege (without food) the morning after made them sitting out in the open absolutely pointless.

For the Watch seemed rushed and poorly written, the same with the Sam-Jon scene with Sam asking to leave and Jon asking him to stay. Cersei's walk was dragged out, a lot. It seemed like they were just trying to flaunt Lena's nudity because they could.


At least the season's over and we'll see the Greyjoys and Tarly's next season

Jijsaw

No, Stannis is dead- D&D say so in the behind the scenes clip.
Possible Jon Snow Parentage spoiler:

They also say Jon Snow is his "father's son"

Season six will be an interesting one!

Also Starring LeVar Burton

This must be the first season finale with so many cliffhangers - I thought it was great. Everything I was expecting and more.

Savage Tyrant

The battle scene was a let down... Dont know why they felt the need to be so vague with Stannis' death (or lack thereof)
Sansa and Theon escaping... Liked it.
Arya killing Trant... Brutal and easily the best scene of the episode.
The Cersi walk of shame was so far drawn out it was boring. Oh yay! Boobies... Sure I could have fapped twice and still had a smoke.
The Mereen scene were very confusing.... They were ok, not great.
The Dorne scenes were.... Well they were there.
The Jon Snow part was very bittersweet for me. My favourite character in books and second favourite in TV show... I was really hoping for a hint over if he is definitely dead or not.

A very up and down episode altogether but I am looking forward to Winds of Winter or Season 6... Whichever comes first... Heart says book, head says tv show.

Messi19

Jijsaw wrote: »

No, Stannis is dead- D&D say so in the behind the scenes clip.
Possible Jon Snow Parentage spoiler:

They also say Jon Snow is his "father's son"

Season six will be an interesting one!

I'm not so sure that it's a direct hint at his parentage but more of he believes that he's ned's son and holds his values

IrishTrajan

Jijsaw wrote: »

No, Stannis is dead- D&D say so in the behind the scenes clip.
Possible Jon Snow Parentage spoiler:

They also say Jon Snow is his "father's son"

Season six will be an interesting one!

They haven't actually said he's dead. Just that she shows up to kill him, which she did, and that he's resigned to dying, which he was.

So, Benjen was used as a red herring on fans who watched the preview just like he was used to trick Jon Snow. I will say though with honesty that I sensed it during the episode. When I saw over 40 minutes had passed and no sign of the lost 1st ranger, I thought he might be used as bait.

And so it was, I'm just relieved that it wasn't Olly who landed the first stab, and "For The Watch" got more than its fair share of utterances. With the Red Lady back at The Wall, her working on reviving Jon has to be on the cards for early next season.

What a downfall for Stannis Baratheon. Within days, he loses his daughter, his wife, his priestess, half his army, the war, then his life. Sure, his death took place off camera so anything could happen in the future, but I got a feeling that these were the final moments of a broken man we were seeing.

Did anyone else think of the 'Aim for the bushes' scene from The Other Guys when Theon and Sansa took that leap off the Winterfell walls?? It was a long drop but no doubt they will have survived pretty much unscathed to return next season.

Damn, those Arya revenge scenes. The last time I saw something that gruesome between a man and a girl in a bedroom, it was David Fincher's Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, you know the scene I'm talking about if you've seen the movie. The revenge part of Arya's story I liked, but I'm afraid the scenes back at 'A Man, A Girl HQ' just posed more questions for me than answers. So, clearly there's a supernatural element at play in the House of Black and White and Ja'aqen can conjure holograms? It's either that or he convinced some person to put on 20+ masks and then poison themselves just to temporarily trick Arya. And Ja'aqen can induce blindness in another being at will? I'd rather not think too much about those scenes and just wait to see what happens there next season.

I'm going to go against the grain and say that I was taken in by the Dorne scenes this week. I know that I already said in this post that I called something before it happened, but the minute Ellaria kissed Mycella I thought of the possibility of poison. But then I thought how that scene between Ellaria and Jaime last week seemed genuine and maybe the bad blood had been buried. Jamie and Mycella's conversation on the boat with them discussing some home truths was touching, if only because we finally got to see Jaime genuinely happy for at least 10 seconds. The second it all got too lovey-dovey and just before the music cresendoed and took that diminished turn, the thought of Ellaria and her vibrant lips came back to the front of my mind. I would think that's Mycella done now. As comical and Benny Hill-like as some of it came across this season, Ellaria and the Sand-snakes are some cold, heartless bastards. It's a shame some of the production values weren't a little higher and the script more refined.

The scenes at Meereen were meh, and just about served to get Varys into the picture for next season and Jorah and Dario taking over the Jaime and Bronn quest from this season to parts unknown. Dany in the field likewise, this was all just 'checking in' after last week's climactic scenes in the Fighting Pits and that's ok I guess. I just don't want to see her take half of next season to get back to Meereen to then have to get to Westeros.

Lena Headey, what a woman first and actress second. I have no experience in the business, but that cannot have been easy what she did. I actually got the feeling during it that there was fúck all difference between her acting this and having to do it for real. The scene was not brief. Of course being the red-blooded man I am, when she was first disrobed on the steps I thought 'How you doin?', but from halfway into the walk to the end of it, I was torn for the character. And then, when she finally gets into 'home' territory, not even her Uncle will come to her aid. Qyburn has been the silent wonder this season for me and I'm looking forward to seeing more from this story next season.

So much happened it's hard to know just how I feel about the episode, but I definitely enjoyed it and some of it moved me. There was...

-Selyse, departed.
-The army of Stannis Baratheon and his quest for the Iron Throne obliterated from existence.
-Stannis Baratheon, departed.
-Brienne fulfilling her oath to avenge Renley Baratheon.
-Sam, Gilly and eh, Sam depart for Oldtown.
-The return and part-redemption of Theon Greyjoy. Myranda, departed.
-Sansa's escape from Winterfell.
-Arya Stark strikes a name off her list. Meryn Trant, departed.
-Arya goes blind.
-Jamie finally gets some love and recognition as a father from one of his secret children.
-Mycella, departed.
-Ellaria defies Doran's ultimatum.
-Vary's finally appears in Meereen.
-Dany comes upon the Khalasar in the Dothraki Sea.
-Cersei confesses to the High Sparrow and is cleansed by the sisters.
-Cersei does her walk of shame, and then some.
-Ser Rob Strong is revealed.
-Mellisandre is back at the wall.
-Jon Snow was For the Watched.

I'm not sure if all of that happening in one episode was a great or dire thing, but I do have to remind myself that the show is covering some books that definitely weren't as straight-forward or tightly-knit as those that provided the material for earlier seasons, and they had to shape it into an accessible story for a prime time television audience. The season will take another viewing in a shorter space of time to see how it ranks compared to the rest. Now, we play the waiting game, and the guessing game too. The Winds Of Winter or Game Of Thrones Season 6 to land first?

2 hours until I've to be up for work, sleep isn't going to happen at this stage so may as well go and see how some non-readers reacted.

Jon Stark

Would have thought Thorne was too honourable to be involved but turns out he truly was a snakey and cowardly ****er. Thought the linger on Jon and slight change in the score meant there was a twist in the tale but not to be unfortunately. I feel trolled. :P

Red woman is where she should be anyway. Jon Snow won't stay dead.

IrishTrajan

stankratz wrote: »

So, Benjen was used as a red herring on fans who watched the preview just like he was used to trick Jon Snow. I will say though with honesty that I sensed it during the episode. When I saw over 40 minutes had passed and no sign of the lost 1st ranger, I thought he might be used as bait.

And so it was, I'm just relieved that it wasn't Olly who landed the first stab, and "For The Watch" got more than its fair share of utterances. With the Red Lady back at The Wall, her working on reviving Jon has to be on the cards for early next season.

If you were reading the books, sure. From the show, not so much. I hate to be the one to say this, but D&D really have butchered the books. They have, what, 10 seasons on contract and they're only at the 5th? They could've ended this season with Aegon's landing, never mind the gratuitous nudity from Headey (it was obnoxiously long, to be honest, and I was looking forward to it).

Oh well, at least we have the hope that WoW will come out before Season 6. Otherwise I'm just going to become a hermit and refuse any and all contact with social media.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

EW: I was talking to Dan Weiss and he said Jon is really dead

Kit:I had a sit-down with Dan and David, we did the Tony Soprano walk [letting an actor know they’re being whacked]. And they said, “Look, you’re gone, it’s done.” And as far as the salary thing goes, that angered me when that story came out. I don’t know where it came from, but it was inaccurate in many ways. It’s going to put questions into your head and into fans’ heads that things are not what they are. Quite honestly, I have never been told the future of things in this show, but this is the one time I have. They sat me down and said, “This is how it is.” If anything in the future is not like that, then I don’t know about it – it’s only in David and Dan and George’s heads. But I’ve been told I’m dead. I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season. So that’s all I can tell you, really.

Liam O

Awful, awful episode and end to the season in general. It's very annoying as about halfway through I was at the point of not caring about the changes and just appreciating the good scenes when they happened. This was awful tripe from the start.

First, Stannis being abandoned, betrayed, wife dead, Mel hits the road. So why on earth was Shireen burned? Makes zero sense to drag a fan favourite through the mud like that, though he might be back in some shape or form at some point he is tarnished in most people's eyes. If he died a bit closer to Jon in time it'd have made it a bit more interesting about the resurrection theories. The battle of Ice was just a slaughter, Ramsey in battle with no armour again, snow melting in the north in winter!? Pure bull from start to finish. My hand was hovering over the x on my laptop but I convinced myself to keep going as I've put so much time into the show I might as well see it out. I was finished 3 books before I watched the show and I kind of wish I hadn't started but too late now I guess.

Then onto Jon and Sam. Sam admitting to the Lord Commander of the NW that he'd broken his vows and the LC just laughs. Then Jon is the one who wants Sam to stay rather than the other way around, lets him leave with his girlfriend on a cart to god knows where considering Sam is an awful fighter and has to travel through the 2 roughest places in all of Westeros and an untold amount of miles to get to Oldtown that way. Ridiculous stuff. I guess the 4 year old kid that's still a baby for some reason could get a sudden growth spurt and be a great warrior but I'd doubt it.

Brienne and Sansa then. Sansa uses a corkscrew to get out of the door, doesn't cover her face but still nobody recognises her. Brienne looks away right before the candle is lit in an almost comedic way. Myranda tells Sansa the information that she should have been using all along with the Boltons needing her but her and Theon instead do a snow jump that I feel is outrageously higher than in the books and would cause instant death. Presumably she's just going to bump into Brienne in the woods which will be even more ridiculous considering it's probably miles to the next town. Though they might go to the mill that theon killed the boys in I guess or something. Still very nonsensical imo.

Arya, not the worst scenes this week but still not really great. The multi-layered mask thing just looked strange and seemed like a cheap way of swerving people. Trant being portrayed as literally the worst piece of **** in the entire series in just one scene(2 I guess if you include last week) also felt a bit cheap to me but he got his gruesome death I guess.

I wasn't too much on the Dorne hate brigade but definitely am after this week. Hammy acting and now they have Trystane on a ship with Bronn and Jaime Lannister and have just presumably killed Myrcella. What in god's name did they think they were going to achieve? Just handing the heir of Dorne a death sentence. Yeah, really smart. Doran just allowing Ellaria and the Sand Snakes the freedom of Dorne after all that went down is hilariously stupid. The "I always knew" moment with Jaime and Myrcella was very clichéd but as a Jaime fan I didn't really mind that, but then Myrcella has a pointless cheap death. Ellaria and the Sand Snakes seem to have developed some cure all antidote too which I'm sure would be a good money maker around Westeros.

Then Meereen. The sulky boyband crew and their manager was actually ok. Tyrion was in good ball busting mood as usual. Jorah and Daario going off alone is a bit silly considering Daario still has a lot of sellswords on his team presumably and Jorah and Tyrion have only recently found how dangerous it is to travel Essos as a duo. Bit of a WTF moment with Varys showing up in Meereen as it means that despite the fact they've pushed ahead with a lot of storylines we're still going to be lagging in Meereen with a throwback season 2 dynamic for a good portion of next season. Didn't really care for Dany's one way interaction with Charizard...I mean Drogon. Just seemed a bit silly and she just walks off and predictably gets picked up by the fastest moving Khalasar in Essos. Was the ring one that Drogo gave her or what was the relevance? Not much else to talk about going on there.

The saving grace somewhat was the walk of shame. Brilliantly acted by Lena Headey and raw as hell! No punches were pulled in the treatment of it though I wouldn't have minded Robbie Strong cutting a few people in half who were getting too close to Cersei. I got a laugh out of Pycelle's creepiness though. Seems the Tyrells and Littlefinger have gone the Greyjoy, Gendry, Brotherhood, Tully, Frey etc. route and disappeared too until they're needed again.

The Ides of Marsh minus Marsh scene left us in no doubt about Jon's fate I feel unlike the small bit of doubt that we still have in the books and Mel just conveniently showing up a couple of hours before makes what has to happen quite clear. Just on her, she really didn't act like Melisandre at all in this episode though I guess it's fairly endemic for the show in general. Anyway, as far as the scene went it was what it was I guess. Well enough acted and every stab seemed to have a good bit of emotion behind it. For the amount of time spent at the Wall though the lack of developed characters is really apparent. They built Alliser Thorne in the show as someone very respectful of the ways of the Watch even if he dislikes Jon and then have him turn around and kill the LC. I'm not sure about the internal workings of the Watch and how it's been handled in the show but as I said it is what it is.

TLDR: very confusing in general, walk of shame good, everything else pretty bad. Basically at fan fiction level at this point. I know why GRRM wouldn't trust anyone else with the books if he died now

Liam O

IrishTrajan wrote: »

If you were reading the books, sure. From the show, not so much. I hate to be the one to say this, but D&D really have butchered the books. They have, what, 10 seasons on contract and they're only at the 5th? They could've ended this season with Aegon's landing, never mind the gratuitous nudity from Headey (it was obnoxiously long, to be honest, and I was looking forward to it).

Oh well, at least we have the hope that WoW will come out before Season 6. Otherwise I'm just going to become a hermit and refuse any and all contact with social media.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

Well those quotes are incredibly worrying, the Jon warging into Stannis theory might still be on however I guess.

I thought the walk of shame was very well done. I'm not sure how long people expected a nude walk from the sept to the Red Keep but I thought it hit all the right notes and the aim of the scene is probably more to disgust the viewer after they get over the "beewwbs" thoughts. Cersei is fairly broken by it in the books according to Kevan so it had to be harsh.

Jon Stark

I'm not too bothered about Kit's comments, he can hardly give anything major away.

Washington Irving

IrishTrajan wrote: »

If you were reading the books, sure. From the show, not so much. I hate to be the one to say this, but D&D really have butchered the books. They have, what, 10 seasons on contract and they're only at the 5th? They could've ended this season with Aegon's landing, never mind the gratuitous nudity from Headey (it was obnoxiously long, to be honest, and I was looking forward to it).

Oh well, at least we have the hope that WoW will come out before Season 6. Otherwise I'm just going to become a hermit and refuse any and all contact with social media.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

I believe seven seasons is what they have in mind. They're going way too fast for ten seasons at this rate in any case.


I'm going to continue hoping and hoping for TWOW before season six, but deep down I know it won't happen. Alas.

Jon Stark wrote: »

I'm not too bothered about Kit's comments, he can hardly give anything major away.

There's a difference between giving something major away and outright denying you'll be returning. He didn't have to say anything.

Jon Stark

Washington Irving wrote: »

I believe seven seasons is what they have in mind. They're going way too fast for ten seasons at this rate in any case.


I'm going to continue hoping and hoping for TWOW before season six, but deep down I know it won't happen. Alas.




There's a difference between giving something major away and outright denying you'll be returning. He didn't have to say anything.

Easier to deny it outright than to be ambiguous/silent and leaving himself open to a grilling.

Washington Irving

Jon Stark wrote: »

Easier to deny it outright than to be ambiguous/silent and leaving himself open to a grilling.

Yeah, but he didn't have to do the interview in the first place, or they could have made it more general and had it released before the episode aired. Plus, I don't think Kit would have just made up a story about what was said to him by D&D.

Game of Thrones is an absolute behemoth of a show, they'd have no problems bending EW's arm for something that 'sensitive' about the its future imo.

I do hope you're right all the same, and I don't necessarily think this means he dies at this point in the books, though it casts a lot of doubt on the Azor Ahai theories.

bur

Awful episode, pacing and structure non-existent.

At last Stannis is still alive.

I don't really care what happens in the show now, they've kind of butchered everything that still has me gripped in the books, or at least made those storylines way less interesting than they are on the page.

Where are the Tully's, the Greyjoys, Nymeria, Stoneheart, Manderley, Freys, Brotherhood without Banners etc etc.

Nody

//MOD

Added poll for the episode.

//MOD

Daith

I enjoyed it. Not greatly but that's been consistent with a fairly poor season.

*Stannis and his army dead. Bit of an anti-climax and I can't see how Ramsey wouldn't be the one to kill Stannis.

*Sansa: How many times does she need to get rescued by a man. She's learning to play the game of thrones is she?

*Meeren: I like Tyrion as much as the next but a bit of action might have helped. It all seemed very subdued. They could have shown them releasing the dragons or the Harpies trying to kill them and failing.

*Walk of Shame: I enjoyed it. At the start I thought Cersei was like "this is fine" but then.

*Dorne: No idea what's happening here. The weakest part of the season

*For the Watch: Perfectly fine. I was trolled about the Benjen speak. Could have done with hearing Ghost howl though.

Overall probably the weakest Season so far. Only Hardhome really got into excellent territory.

Nody

I honestly think they would have done much better if they had saved the big fight scene from episode 8 to slot in at the end instead (yes I know we'd not get the Stabby mc Stab event then but still); it would have had people seriously pumped for the season finale rather than this partially lame duck.

Cersei - Fine, season finale deserved
Dorne - Who ever is the ex porn movie story writer needs to be fired; any GoT fanboy can write better script than this
Sansa - Who would use a bow at close range to torture someone? Seriously give the girl a dirk or a meat hook or something but ok for season finale
Meeren - Fine, season finale deserved as it sets up the next arc
Stanis - Yes, season finale worthy
The wall chat - Err, no, just no
Stabby mc Stab - Ok, season finale material
Melisandre - What did she see to make her leave? Seriously they really need to expand on this as this is not season finale material
Aryia - Not season finale material for me but I guess for the non book readers the fact she "died" is

Overall I'm missing is wtf is going on in Westeros in general; how's the queen doing? What's highgarden (i.e. Queen of Thorns) doing? Littlefinger? Yunkai army? There are a ton of areas not touched on for several episodes which are bloody relevant which annoys me...

wingnut

Daith wrote: »

*For the Watch: Perfectly fine. I was trolled about the Benjen speak. Could have done with hearing Ghost howl though.

Ghost has had an odd treatment on the TV show. They should have showed him locked up and going mad, or at least howling as you suggest. The direwolves were so significant in earlier seasons, only job this season was deus ex machina rescue of Samwell.

I was also disappointed with Grey Wind's death on the show.

Daith

wingnut wrote: »

Ghost has had an odd treatment on the TV show. They should have showed him locked up and going mad, or at least howling as you suggest. The direwolves were so significant in earlier seasons, only job this season was deus ex machina rescue of Samwell.

I was also disappointed with Grey Wind's death on the show.

Agreed. Summer is the only direwolf that seems consistent. The show really doesn't want to feature other characters warging too.

However we now possibly will have Jon to Ghost and Arya to Nymeria (or a cat) so it might be featured.

I wanted Grey Wind to go off like the champ he was but oddly found his death sadder in the show. Esp with Arya looking on.

Tigger

That was a body double with a cgi face btw

Ave Sodalis

IrishTrajan wrote: »

That entire battle scene seemed rushed and pointless. Stannis was a proven commander, and knew the Boltons had an army at Winterfell. He wouldn't have sat in the open, he would've positioned his army along the tree line. Him announcing they were going to start a siege (without food) the morning after made them sitting out in the open absolutely pointless.

He just lost everything though. He was broken, there was nothing left of him. He was just after burning his child which did nothing except make half his army desert and his wife commit suicide. Then he learns that his red priest has taken off, and with her the last shred of hope. The man was broken. The only thing he could do was what he travelled all that way for because he had nothing left.

I believe he is dead. Both for the reasons above and because he showed that he sees the world as black and white. He committed a crime by killing his brother, he accepts the consequences by telling Brienne to do her duty. Also, Brienne has wanted to kill him from the start, I don't think she's going to miss.

Liam O

Tigger wrote: »

That was a body double with a cgi face btw

I did think it looked strange, probably a lot to do with the tattoo cover up but still a bit pointless.

jaded_pause

I'm pretty disappointed, as a few have pointed out thus far, with the amount of cliffhangers we've been left with this season. Dany, Sansa, Jamie left with the young lad on the boat, no sign of Bran at all, the Tyrels, including Margery, Tommen, Jon with no Ghost reaction, Red woman showing up at the wall conveniently. It's all just a little bit... shoulda been episode 9 and I'm waiting for next week til they wrap up a few unanswered questions. It's getting to the stage now where I'm questioning do I even want to watch next season or wait for the book.

Also by the end of it I just wanted to give Cercei a bath, felt really bad for her, even though she deserved it, the scene was dreadfully gratuitous and overly long, I get she's being disgraced and shamed (*bell ring*) but I didn't want to pity her because she's one of my least favourite characters, I quite enjoyed her comeuppance in the book.

Nody

[/QUOTE]

jaded_pause wrote: »

I'm pretty disappointed, as a few have pointed out thus far, with the amount of cliffhangers we've been left with this season. Dany, Sansa, Jamie left with the young lad on the boat, no sign of Bran at all, the Tyrels, including Margery, Tommen, Jon with no Ghost reaction, Red woman showing up at the wall conveniently. It's all just a little bit... shoulda been episode 9 and I'm waiting for next week til they wrap up a few unanswered questions. It's getting to the stage now where I'm questioning do I even want to watch next season or wait for the book.

Season finale means there is no episode next week

Also by the end of it I just wanted to give Cercei a bath, felt really bad for her, even though she deserved it, the scene was dreadfully gratuitous and overly long, I get she's being disgraced and shamed (*bell ring*) but I didn't want to pity her because she's one of my least favourite characters, I quite enjoyed her comeuppance in the book.

I think the scene actually did a very good job of driving that home; esp. how broken she was from it all but I think the scene once she entered the castle could have been done better. Also was I the only one noting how the sparrow standing up on the top looking down at all the people appeared to be, well, smug about it all? I sense the making of a new wannabe dictator here who'll try to change it from a king to a priest lead nation instead (with him leading it of course).

Mr.Prodston

I don't even know how I feel, I was very unimpressed I think. What I do know is that I think D&D have gotten a little too carried away with the success of some of their minor changes in past seasons that worked out well enough and felt a little overly confident about adapting this season.

The thing in this episode that really got to me was Brienne leaving seconds before Sansa lit the candle. Sure Stannis was coming but it was such a cliched moment that early seasons of GOT would never have had. Even trying to be impartial as a viewer of the show that was just lazy. The first time I really noticed it/sticks in my head was before Oberyn's fight last season and he utters "This is not the day I die". Why even include that? I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it is to create 10 hours of television but I think they should be doing better. At this point I don't think they really give 2 hoots about the source material or the fans. The whole "But George burns her in the next book" defence is evidence of that. Anyway.

2/3 episodes ago Stannis was the greatest military leader in Westeros and even with the bare bones of an army left he didn't seem to set up all that well for a man of such vast expertise. How was he going to attempt a siege after 20 good men burnt all his supplies last week? I guess this is really one of the first things the show has spoiled on the reader. I assume the Battle of Winterfell can't see Stannis winning in The Winds of Winter now. Brienne managed to find Stannis pretty easily too. He's presumably dead, I mean even if he's kept alive he has nothing left.

Mel realising Stan wasn't the man was one of the subtler and better things but the whole premise as to how it came about was shoddy as I may have briefly mentioned in the last paragraph :pac: How she went from almost smiling at the pyre last week to showing some remorse when met by Davos is somewhat odd. The thought did cross my mind briefly that Davos may attempt some rescue of Jon but I guess himself and Mel were supposed to be asleep.

The Benjen trolling was annoying and there seem to be huge questions over whether Jon will be back. I guess we're all in the dark for now, although with Mel in situ conditions there's a chance of life. I guess anything that Kit or D&D say at this point either way can be taken with a pinch of salt. They won't be able to hide his filming I'd imagine or the lack thereof.

Plot Twist: Mel tries to raise Jon back to life and Stannis is reborn instead

The Cersei scene seemed to drag on but then again that was the idea. Ser Robert Strong seems to have more of a head than I remembered though. Kevan and Pycelle can sleep easy for a little while, although a lack of Littlefinger could indicate him taking the very far from King's Landing, Varys. That was a surprise. GreyWorm will forever piss me off I think and it's not his fault, perhaps if he were to find Wyman Manderley then all would be well :P

Arya's revenge was well done but we're none the wiser as to where that story is going. A little more casual abuse of women too to keep everyone happy! The Hound has been a massive loss to the show I think. At least Theon finally found himself, but that jump even despite the snow seemed like suicide more than anything else. Dany surrounded by Dothraki was faithful to the plot and overall I guess everyone is pretty much as they are in the books.

Except for Dorne which I just remembered. Bloody hell. How did we manage to miss out on Arianne in favour of Ellaria? I actually groan aloud everytime she comes on screen at this point!

Bronn got out alive though eh :cool:

RobbingBandit

Jon Snow body Stannis soul. Calling it now.

jaded_pause

Season finale means there is no episode next week

Oh I'm aware lol, I mis-worded, should have said I FEEL like I'm waiting for the finale next week because it wasn't good enough for my poor brain lol. Apologies!

OneOfThem Stumbled

• Stannis: So what has your Lord of Light given me for burning my daughter to death.
• Melisandre: Well, naturally, the non-nutjobs didn't take well to the immolation so they're gone. Your wife, who in fact, was a nutjob didn't take it well either, so she's dead.
• Stannis: Did nobody see this happening? Does nobody serving me have any capacity to prevent this sort of crap?
• Melisandre: Davos is the only person in your camp besides me who has a name, and he's not here... so... no. But, on the plus side the storm is over.
• Stannis: Normally I would welcome storms when we are in no position to give battle as it would screen us from the enemy as we make our retreat. But since I'm not going to do that, it's all good.
• Melisandre: We could just go elsewhere you know.
• Stannis: What on earth are you talking about woman? We are a hundred leagues from anywhere, except Winterfell, which is just over that hill, apparently.
• Melisandre: Well not really... *woosh*
  [a horse appears]
  I can get back to the Night's Watch in less than a day.
• Stannis: And why would you do that?
• Melisandre: Errors were made. 404 protagonist not found.
• Stannis: What? After 3 seasons of buildup I won't let you just leave! My men will stop you!
• Melisandre: We already have had this conversation about your men. Laters
• [exit Mel stage right]
• Stannis: If war has taught me anything it is that the best course of action now is to lay siege to a an army twice my size.
• [exit Stannis stage left]

***************

• Littlefinger: Everything is going to plan Ser Prize
• Ser Prize: Why are you telling me this?
• Littlefinger: Varys isn't here. Usually I say this sort of thing in the throne room in King's Landing, but whatever. Anyhow, I have Sansa in just the position for her to exact her revenge.
• Ser Prize: How so?
• Littlefinger: I have read all the spoilers. Even for the material that isn't written yet. I looked into the flames and saw that a Stark ~would be taught to fly~... and that this is a significant development.. one which will guarantee victory for the Starks. And lo... Theon seems to be doing his part in ensuring Sansa obtains this education.
• Ser Prize: But the Stark being referenced in Dance of Dragons was Bran.. wasn't it? Sansa was meant to be a political weapon, not a sex slave, wasn't she? That fall is more likely to kill her than anything? And with Stannis out of the way, and there being no storm to provide shelter, how on Earth will she be rescued?
• Littlefinger: Okay, that's it! Out the moondoor with you!
• Ser Prize: No! I've only just been introduced! I've only just been introduuuuuuu

***************

• Qyburn: My Queen, the new King's guard. It is... Ser Gregor!
• Cersei:: No this can't be!
• Qyburn: I know... he has changed. Altered irreparably...
• Cersei::No, that's not it at all, in fact he is the same!
• Qyburn: The same, my Queen?
• Cersei:: This man has changed three times that I have known him. Entirely. Unrecognisable. Yet, somehow, when you... turned him into a walking corpse... he manages to be the same 26 year old Icelandic strongman as before.

***************

• Ellaria: And now the Martells have been avenged.
• Obara: We have received the body of The Mountain?
• Ellaria: No! Oberyn's justice has been observed.
• Obara: That little girls would not be harmed in Dorne?
• Ellaria: No.. no... that we would gain superiority over the Lannisters!
• Obara: I don't think Oberyn actually said that. He talked about The Mountain a lot. And Tywin. Hell, didn't he die fighting on behalf of a Lannister?
• Ellaria: Anyway, I have done it, I have killed Myrcella
• Obara: You mean the crown prince's wife-to-be?
• Ellaria: Yes!
• Obara: The only political pawn by which Dorne could secure the Iron Throne?
• Ellaria: The one and only!
• Obara: The girl who was on the ship with the crown prince.
• Ellaria: Yes, yes.
• Obara: They have the crown prince hostage now, don't they?
• Ellaria: I suppose so.
• Obara: Will they suspect you of the murder? Or us?
• Ellaria: I don't see why they would. All in all, the perfect crime I think.
• Obara: Is that the ship, coming back? Yeah. It's the ship.

<credit music:"They're taking Daenerys to Isengaard Isengaard g-g-gard">

Jelle1880

It felt like they were trying to put too much cliffhangers in 1 episode.

Jon, Stannis, Sansa and Theon, Cersei and Robert Strong, Arya, Daenerys,...

podgemonster

I enjoyed that episode, it didn't feel like a season finale and in a way another 30 mins would have just ironed out some creases but as an episode I found it exciting and extremely tragic.

One of the biggest character transition was Melisandre, she awakens to see the ice melting and we see a face of relieved pleasure. Her murder of Shireen is justified (which I believe now she may have hid some doubts about) had paid off (at that moment). Then come the hard facts, horses gone and half the troops abandoned the camp. This is the face of a poker player that has gone all in and lost everything. In the end she knows all is lost and saves herself. Davos mentioning of Shireen pains her, she feels guilt. This sudden change almost evokes pity to a religious nut who releases they were wrong.

Stannis chooses to fight sword in hand knowing that he his lost, he his Iron, he'll break before he bends. His final moments he is fittingly punished for the shameful act (which he acknowledges) of murdering his brother with magic. Not for being a traitor or a rebel but for being a kinslayer and using sorcery. There's a moment of respect between him and Brienne that I liked. Two of the most honour bound rigid characters finally meeting. I can understand people protesting that Stannis was an excellent military commander but so was Napoleon and Hitler and they were undone when attacking a large land mass in weather conditions their armies weren't used to. One criticism would be the ridiculous size of the Bolton host, it was a bit over indulgent by the TV show.

I'm gona say it, I enjoyed the Dorne scene this week. Little bit of comedy for Bronn and what was a really beautiful yet awkward father and daughter scene before her death. Mrycella is every bit as naive and innocent as Shireen, she is loving and gentle and comforts and accepts her stuttering one handed uncle/father before she bleeds to death. I found it heartbreaking that she died panicking in her father arms.

Meereen was poor this week, found the scene in the Throne room awkward and forced with everyone showing up and getting a job to do from a fúcking sellsword. Not really sure Dany's scene was necessary. Can Drogon speak English? Could he not have a nap without Dany nagging him. The shot of the encircling Khalazar was pretty impressive.

Arya's murder of Trant was very dark, quick, vicious and powerful, she relished every moment of it. Found the scene afterwards to be a bit too Stephen King. Could just made her drink something to make her blind rather than that headfúck of a scene.

Nice to know Sam will be in a new city next season. I found his scene with Jon quite nice knowing that they may never meet again. After Ygritte I think Jon knows how hard it is to keep your vows when you're in love. I ignored the whole Benjen spoiler stuff and I actually found the whole thing on social media pointless and merely click bait material. If the show writers are try to suprise me I'd rather have them do it than some link on Facebook.

The Ides of March scene was done ok, in my head I imagined it to be colder, almost silent. I didn't appreciate "Olly" being Jon's last words. Would have liked a panned shot up to Ghost.

Finally one of the finest scenes of the season was Cersei's atonement. Her initial confession has lashings of dishonesty and the Lena Headleys subtly lets us know that she really hasn't learned any thing at that moment. The scene needed to be long to translate Cersei decent to humility. Her tiny smirk to the Septa during her scrubbing is wiped when her hair is cut, she composes herself and walks Naked to the Red Keep without trying to cover her bits like the previous High Septon. She begins determined and strong and eventually becomes a broken scared women covered in blood, filth and tears. It was poetic and one that may earn Lena an award.

When you compare it to other season finales there has always been an element of hope bar the marching army of the dead in Season 2 which is more of a "WHOA!!" ending. Season one ends with "THE KING IN THE NORTH" and the birth of Dragons, Season 3 ends with Dany being lifted up by freed slaves, Season 4 ends with Arya sailing into the sunset on a Bravosi ship heading towards another land. There is no really winner walking away this season bar Roose and Ramsay, while the story continues and things get worse there needs to be a glimmer of joy and element of hope. Instead we are left with the main character dead and bleeding out in the snow.

Peregrine

Arya - I thought this was done perfectly, no complaints from me.

Stannis - Too many things off camera. His actions didn't agree with his character. Greatest military tactician in Westeros marches to Winterfell with few hundred starving men and no horses and actually thinks there will be a siege?

Sansa & Theon - Nothing too wrong with it.

Brienne - The whole thing with her leaving and Sansa lighting the candle two seconds later was a bit much.

Cersei - The walk was dragged out far too much.

Jon - Recap on Benjen was almost tantalising.

Tyrion - Pretty much as expected, sitting around thinking 'What now?'

Melisandre - Just how many leagues did she travel in such a short time? It's also worth noting that Davos left the camp almost a day before Melisandre.

Daenerys - Thought it was fine.

Dorne - Groan

Jelle1880

podgemonster wrote: »

I enjoyed that episode, it didn't feel like a season finale and in a way another 30 mins would have just ironed out some creases but as an episode I found it exciting and extremely tragic.

One of the biggest character transition was Melisandre, she awakens to see the ice melting and we see a face of relieved pleasure. Her murder of Shireen is justified (which I believe now she may have hid some doubts about) had paid off (at that moment). Then come the hard facts, horses gone and half the troops abandoned the camp. This is the face of a poker player that has gone all in and lost everything. In the end she knows all is lost and saves herself. Davos mentioning of Shireen pains her, she feels guilt. This sudden change almost evokes pity to a religious nut who releases they were wrong.

Stannis chooses to fight sword in hand knowing that he his lost, he his Iron, he'll break before he bends. His final moments he is fittingly punished for the shameful act (which he acknowledges) of murdering his brother with magic. Not for being a traitor or a rebel but for being a kinslayer and using sorcery. There's a moment of respect between him and Brienne that I liked. Two of the most honour bound rigid characters finally meeting. I can understand people protesting that Stannis was an excellent military commander but so was Napoleon and Hitler and they were undone when attacking a large land mass in weather conditions their armies weren't used to. One criticism would be the ridiculous size of the Bolton host, it was a bit over indulgent by the TV show.

I'm gona say it, I enjoyed the Dorne scene this week. Little bit of comedy for Bronn and what was a really beautiful yet awkward father and daughter scene before her death. Mrycella is every bit as naive and innocent as Shireen, she is loving and gentle and comforts and accepts her stuttering one handed uncle/father before she bleeds to death. I found it heartbreaking that she died panicking in her father arms.

Meereen was poor this week, found the scene in the Throne room awkward and forced with everyone showing up and getting a job to do from a fúcking sellsword. Not really sure Dany's scene was necessary. Can Drogon speak English? Could he not have a nap without Dany nagging him. The shot of the encircling Khalazar was pretty impressive.

Arya's murder of Trant was very dark, quick, vicious and powerful, she relished every moment of it. Found the scene afterwards to be a bit too Stephen King. Could just made her drink something to make her blind rather than that headfúck of a scene.

Nice to know Sam will be in a new city next season. I found his scene with Jon quite nice knowing that they may never meet again. After Ygritte I think Jon knows how hard it is to keep your vows when you're in love. I ignored the whole Benjen spoiler stuff and I actually found the whole thing on social media pointless and merely click bait material. If the show writers are try to suprise me I'd rather have them do it than some link on Facebook.

The Ides of March scene was done ok, in my head I imagined it to be colder, almost silent. I didn't appreciate "Olly" being Jon's last words. Would have liked a panned shot up to Ghost.

Finally one of the finest scenes of the season was Cersei's atonement. Her initial confession has lashings of dishonesty and the Lena Headleys subtly lets us know that she really hasn't learned any thing at that moment. The scene needed to be long to translate Cersei decent to humility. Her tiny smirk to the Septa during her scrubbing is wiped when her hair is cut, she composes herself and walks Naked to the Red Keep without trying to cover her bits like the previous High Septon. She begins determined and strong and eventually becomes a broken scared women covered in blood, filth and tears. It was poetic and one that may earn Lena an award.

When you compare it to other season finales there has always been an element of hope bar the marching army of the dead in Season 2 which is more of a "WHOA!!" ending. Season one ends with "THE KING IN THE NORTH" and the birth of Dragons, Season 3 ends with Dany being lifted up by freed slaves, Season 4 ends with Arya sailing into the sunset on a Bravosi ship heading towards another land. There is no really winner walking away this season bar Roose and Ramsay, while the story continues and things get worse there needs to be a glimmer of joy and element of hope. Instead we are left with the main character dead and bleeding out in the snow.

Great write up, agree with most of it.

But I believe that the Bolton army contains many of the mercenaries that abandoned Stannis, hence their huge cavalry numbers (they stole all of his horses).

2ndcoming

podgemonster wrote: »

Finally one of the finest scenes of the season was Cersei's atonement. Her initial confession has lashings of dishonesty and the Lena Headleys subtly lets us know that she really hasn't learned any thing at that moment. The scene needed to be long to translate Cersei decent to humility. Her tiny smirk to the Septa during her scrubbing is wiped when her hair is cut, she composes herself and walks Naked to the Red Keep without trying to cover her bits like the previous High Septon. She begins determined and strong and eventually becomes a broken scared women covered in blood, filth and tears. It was poetic and one that may earn Lena an award.

I don't think it represented a descent into humility. If anything it's the thing (along with

the death of Myrcella and Tommen

) that's going to send her over the tipping point and possibly lead to

her bringing about the doom of King's Landing as a way of punishing the commoners for how they treated her

.

Spoiler tags used even though these are only theories for the most part.

paulbok

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Great write up, agree with most of it.

But I believe that the Bolton army contains many of the mercenaries that abandoned Stannis, hence their huge cavalry numbers (they stole all of his horses).

It would make sense, they'd have known there was nowhere else to go for leagues, so switching sides in order to survive the weather never mind the battle would not be a difficult decision for a sell sword.

chanelfreak

Well I absolutely HATED that episode - I'm actually really bloody p1ssed off with D&D to be honest. The season itself was a real comedown from the previous ones IMO, but I was willing to go with it and episode 8 had me thinking my hanging on and not giving up on it was justified, but HELL NO.

Dorne was pointless as usual, I didnt like the way they made Dany look like she was threatened when in the book, its more like she is threatening the khalasar (especially with Drogon being his bad self beside her!).
WTF was the craic with Stannis??!?! That REALLY irritated me, because why kill off Shireen last episode? Just to be controversial it would appear, which really grinds my gears.
The Olly stabbiness was as obvious as we had all guessed, but I really hope Kit Harrington is just having the lulz with his interview, because if Jon Snow isnt going to warg into Ghost/be resurrected by Melisandre then what is the bloody point of it all? AARRGGHHHH.
And no Lady Stoneheart - goddammit, I was really hoping she would show up, but the fact that they have left her out coupled with the fact that we havent seen Beric Dondarrion for about a million years, seems to point to the fact that D&D are not gonna go with the Lord of Light resurrection at all.

As another poster said, they completely and utterly killed all the tension from the same parts in ADwD and I have no interest in watching next year, because I think it's going to be so utterly different from GRRMs vision.
I just hope to feck the man gets cracking on TWoW so that I can enjoy what he envisioned for the series and not what D&D decided to churn out for the sake of bloody ratings. Gah.

paulbok

I can't remember from the books but do any of the Stark children apart from Bran have the ability to warg?

FunLover18

I think what really annoys me is that there really doesn't seem to be a plan. Like I would've thought D&D would have had enough time what characters/stories they want to cover and how they want to cover them, but it really does feel like this season was just thrown together (possibly because they're catching up with the book's) but the appearance, disappearance, reappearance of characters really doesn't help. Of course the series doesn't and can't have the scope of the books but even a line thrown in here and there referencing the struggles in the riverlands, instead of wasting time on Greyworm/Missandei, it's all beginning to feel very localised (I still don't get how they are unaware of Cersei's arrest in Dorne). The inconsistencies with time also don't help (although it's a difficult thing to convey visually). Myrcella has been in Dorne for years but as someone pointed out above baby Sam is still a baby. I think a few days are supposed to have passed between Melisandre's departure from camp and arrival at the wall. The pink letter would've helped clarify this and I thought they were going to go that way when they had Jon reading the letters, but instead they went with some random Benjen reference. I'm seriously just considering waiting for the books and reading Martin's story as he intends it to pan out. There really wasn't much in that finale that has be bursting to see what happens next which is odd because they're all the same cliff hangers from the last book.

Son0vagun

Terrible finale to a terrible season.

It appears D&D have scarificed the TV show to save the Books. Very noble of them. It seems they've gone off on different tangents, totally opposites to the books to save spoiling the books.

There is no way Stannis is going to lose the Battle of Ice in the books.