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Why do we still need Pride?

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    #122
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,069 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Initial reaction; the Phoenix Park would be a shirra venue. 1. How is the parade supposed to march along any decent route towards it? 2. It is way too far from any of the gay venues. 3. What part of the park? 4. Its a nonsense to suggest that Merrion Square is too small. Between the park, the adjoining streets and side streets you could fit more than twice the crowd that attended Pride, it just requires adequate planning and innovative thinking. 4. Is Pride really just going to be a Northside event?

    We'd have to see the details. The Park will provide ample space and opportunities for a greater Pride party and is more appropriate for the growing numbers.

    They seem to be unable or unwilling to get streets closed off on and around Dame Street which would be my preferred option.

    Oh what you got against the northside!?:pac:


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    #123
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Initial reaction; the Phoenix Park would be a shirra venue. 1. How is the parade supposed to march along any decent route towards it? 2. It is way too far from any of the gay venues. 3. What part of the park? 4. Its a nonsense to suggest that Merrion Square is too small. Between the park, the adjoining streets and side streets you could fit more than twice the crowd that attended Pride, it just requires adequate planning and innovative thinking. 4. Is Pride really just going to be a Northside event?

    I presume if they're having it in the Phoenix Park they're going to have alcohol served. There's no way it will work otherwise.


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    #124
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,860 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    We'd have to see the details. The Park will provide ample space and opportunities for a greater Pride party and is more appropriate for the growing numbers.

    They seem to be unable or unwilling to get streets closed off on and around Dame Street which would be my preferred option.

    Oh what you got against the northside!?:pac:

    I dont understand why you would want to close off Dame Street though! I like that Dublin Pride has always ended in a park and I'd hate it to just end in a street!!!!

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #125
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,069 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Daith wrote: »
    I presume if they're having it in the Phoenix Park they're going to have alcohol served. There's no way it will work otherwise.

    Definitely. It probably comes down to business at the end of the day. Enough people are going that the city centre pubs will still be packed all or most of the day.

    Anyway it appears it's not going to happen:

    http://www.herald.ie/news/no-sense-to-move-gay-pride-march-out-of-city-centre-31405055.html


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    #126
    AnSliabhCorcra
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭AnSliabhCorcra


    I personally have 'seen' Pride once and I have to say that, although interesting and wonderful to see acceptance of our community and the atmosphere pride brings to the city, I can't help but wonder if Pride could be deemed counterproductive in terms of the community's view on the gay community. I personally don't feel that the 'shock-factor' of Gay Pride represents me as a person and would not like my sexuality (which is something personal and dear to me) is looked upon based on what Pride represents.

    That said, the atmosphere in the city is electric.


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    #127
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    AnSliabhCorcra wrote: »
    I personally have 'seen' Pride once and I have to say that, although interesting and wonderful to see acceptance of our community and the atmosphere pride brings to the city, I can't help but wonder if Pride could be deemed counterproductive in terms of the community's view on the gay community. I personally don't feel that the 'shock-factor' of Gay Pride represents me as a person and would not like my sexuality (which is something personal and dear to me) is looked upon based on what Pride represents.

    That said, the atmosphere in the city is electric.

    I agree, I love pride and all the flamboyancy that comes with it its so much fun. But it does really reinforce stereotypes of lgbt people as being loud and obnoxious and very sexual and lacking sexual morals... I know that I may sound self hating or ungrateful to those who fought for my rights but it does turn many conservative and old straight people against the lgbt community. Shouldn't we be trying to show that we are the same as straight people, straight people don't have big bright flamboyant hetero parades so isn't it sending mixed messages if we want to be accepted just like them and be considered the same as straight people.


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    #128
    Ash885
    Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Ash885


    wakka12 wrote: »
    I agree, I love pride and all the flamboyancy that comes with it its so much fun. But it does really reinforce stereotypes of lgbt people as being loud and obnoxious and very sexual and lacking sexual morals... I know that I may sound self hating or ungrateful to those who fought for my rights but it does turn many conservative and old straight people against the lgbt community. Shouldn't we be trying to show that we are the same as straight people, straight people don't have big bright flamboyant hetero parades so isn't it sending mixed messages if we want to be accepted just like them and be considered the same as straight people.

    I feel like putting all your message in bold if I'm honest...but those parts in particular.

    Wouldn't that be counter productive for Pride itself? For being proud of our differences? I'm not the exact same as a straight person. I'm not the exact same as a gay person either. Hence why the parade didn't celebrate all of who I wish to be seen as, but gave me the opportunity to celebrate all aspects of what I could be and people's joy in themselves. I'm not insecure in thinking that being seen at the parade may give rise to people assuming I'm into X, Y, Z. That's silly. PEople will of course think a number of things with/without evidence, so you have to let them be.

    I get how some people may roll the eyes but in all honesty I didn't go through 10 years of being called heinous names, periods of self-loathing and "checking myself" to then cowel in th streets and act like my "betters" for an easier life. Marching in unison with no individuality would not be cause for celebration. And itt feels like you're thanking all those "flamboyant" people for fighting for your rights but now that we have them, eh please hide yourselves again. Not entirely fair.

    Thirdly I don't know what mixed messages could be gotten from the parade itself. Each organisation was heavily advertised in their message. The majoirty were the local campaigns for Yes Equality. Any promicious behaviour that has been dealt with in this thread 3,000 times has been deduced as an individuals beahviour and not that of the march itself.

    I was afraid of being compared to the likes of the camp comedians and queens you'd see on the news when I came out. Thankfully I got over myself. The amount of pressure young and old gay people put on themselves worrying over what society would think of them is enormous. In my view Pride can be a way to eleivate these, not amplify them.


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    #129
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,860 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    wakka12 wrote: »
    I agree, I love pride and all the flamboyancy that comes with it its so much fun. But it does really reinforce stereotypes of lgbt people as being loud and obnoxious and very sexual and lacking sexual morals... I know that I may sound self hating or ungrateful to those who fought for my rights but it does turn many conservative and old straight people against the lgbt community. Shouldn't we be trying to show that we are the same as straight people, straight people don't have big bright flamboyant hetero parades so isn't it sending mixed messages if we want to be accepted just like them and be considered the same as straight people.

    I'm not the same as a heterosexual person and for me pride is about celebrating difference and diversity. I don't know why this idea exists that equality = sameness. It simply doesn't. I am a gay man. I am different and I am equal. I will always celebrate pride precisely because it celebrates difference and diversity.

    I'm damn proud of the fact pride movements never took the attitude that LGBT people should hide ourselves away in order to appease older people and more conservative people. What a horrific world we would live in if the attitudes of older people and conservative people were never challenged by pride. We would be a damn sight more unequal; possibly still illegal, persecuted and legally discriminated against.

    Nah - We should let the conservative people and older people have their views but not be afraid of challenging them.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #130
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,069 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    wakka12 wrote: »
    I agree, I love pride and all the flamboyancy that comes with it its so much fun. But it does really reinforce stereotypes of lgbt people as being loud and obnoxious and very sexual and lacking sexual morals... I know that I may sound self hating or ungrateful to those who fought for my rights but it does turn many conservative and old straight people against the lgbt community. Shouldn't we be trying to show that we are the same as straight people, straight people don't have big bright flamboyant hetero parades so isn't it sending mixed messages if we want to be accepted just like them and be considered the same as straight people.

    What do you mean by lacking sexual morals?

    Pride parade is about breaking down these kinds of ancient attitudes to sex and sexuality. Perhaps that message hasn't rubbed off on you.


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