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Why do we still need Pride?

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  • 12-06-2015 8:58pm
    #1
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭


    There seems to be this idea that all lgbt people suddenly became fully equal on May 23rd and that the idea of lgbt pride is now an irrelevance.

    I could not disagree more. Yes the marriage equality referendum passed and the gender recocgnition act and amending section 37 of the Emploment Act are about to happen.

    These are welcome legal changes. They do not and should not mean..

    1. Homophobia/Biphobia and Transphobia just stopped overnight and no longer exist
    2. That important historical elements of lgbt culture should simply desist.
    3. That other important issues relevant to the lgbt community cannot and should not be publicly shown.
    4. That we should not show solidarity with the millions of lgbt people who suffer daily around the world.
    5. That we should not choose to celebrate who we are.

    For me the pride movement is something that cannot and should not simply be ended suddenly.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



«1345

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    #2
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,403 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    1. Homophobia/Biphobia and Transphobia just stopped overnight and no longer exist

    By far the most baffling viewpoint but I have certainly come across variations of this way of thinking since the referendum passed. I think some people are just weary of the campaign and keen to move past it, it was a pretty bitter fight on both sides.

    I love pride and last year it was great during the day but town was just a mess that evening, kinda took the shine off it for me. I hope this one is better.

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #3
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Until such time as the religious get-outs in the Employment Equality Act are fixed, and the legislation for marriage (and the gender recognition bill passes, on the T side of LGBT) there is still obvious inequality to fight for. That's well before homophobia is dealt with.


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    #4
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Pride is needed to give heart to those still finding their way. It's needed to keep solidarity with all those whose sexuality or gender identity is threatened or excluded. It's needed for the fun and energy released into the country. We're part of our society more than we ever were but we're still us. Maybe we just like to party!


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    #5
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Apparently Pride in London is the biggest event the city sees every year. So if nothing else, Pride is good for the economy!


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    #6
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    And the trans community had its own pride weekend festival in Dublin this weekend. An absolute privilege to attend.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    The most important use of Pride in the immediate future would be to address the biggest issue we know face as a community and one that frankly our community leaders have not addressed as they should and that is HIV. Even today we see alarming statistics about the growth in the disease, a disease we could have eliminated entirely by now. Instead we have young gay men being diagnosed. Its utterly shameful.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-hiv-infections-at-highest-in-five-years-682005.html#.VX6Xr0-feWg.twitter

    Wake up gays.


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    #8
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    There seems to be this idea that all lgbt people suddenly became fully equal on May 23rd and that the idea of lgbt pride is now an irrelevance.

    I could not disagree more. Yes the marriage equality referendum passed and the gender recocgnition act and amending section 37 of the Emploment Act are about to happen.

    These are welcome legal changes. They do not and should not mean..

    1. Homophobia/Biphobia and Transphobia just stopped overnight and no longer exist
    2. That important historical elements of lgbt culture should simply desist.
    3. That other important issues relevant to the lgbt community cannot and should not be publicly shown.
    4. That we should not show solidarity with the millions of lgbt people who suffer daily around the world.
    5. That we should not choose to celebrate who we are.

    For me the pride movement is something that cannot and should not simply be ended suddenly.
    I think about two people said that


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    #9
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    I think about two people said that

    No. I've seen it quite a lot more than that.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #10
    Zynks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭Zynks


    I thought I'll make my comment as an outsider and as a parent. First, I agree with Joey's Enda-esque five point (plan?), but I think Fleawuss got it spot on concerning helping people finding their way.

    While prejudice is founded on ignorance, Pride helps build a sense of familiarity. It has a big social role, and it is great fun. I hope it continues and grows.
    Fleawuss wrote: »
    Pride is needed to give heart to those still finding their way. It's needed to keep solidarity with all those whose sexuality or gender identity is threatened or excluded. It's needed for the fun and energy released into the country. We're part of our society more than we ever were but we're still us. Maybe we just like to party!


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    #11
    irish_dave_83
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭irish_dave_83


    I agree it should be kept. Even if all the legal inequalities are sorted out in the future, I think it is a good beacon to have for kids and adults finding their way. Particularly for kids coming to terms with it, their world is a lot smaller and the publicity of Pride will hopefully reach them, letting them know that they are not alone.

    Lets be honest, most kids are raised under the assumption that they will be straight, and their friends are straight etc., (Princess meets prince etc). As a straight man I can only imagine how daunting it can be. I also went to an all boys secondary school, and you could see the bullying going on with one of my friends who had not yet come out at the time. We stood up for him and all, but it still affected him. This is where Pride(and other things) can help. Even if you have supportive friends at that age, they do not know enough to properly make you feel at ease, and they may still feel like the "weak" one in the group. That's my experience anyway.

    This may change in the future, but it will be the last thing to change in my opinion.


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    #12
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    also it at the end of the day Pride is another festival in the city and is another economy booster


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    #13
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,068 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    I'm almost afraid to guess how many people will be out for the parade and all the after parties this year. Town will be absolutely crazy and I expect lots more pubs to display the rainbow flag!

    I have to say that the lineup at the Pride Village isn't the best (no disrespect to those performing). Could they not have got a bigger act given the year that's in it - even a former X Factor contestant, an 80s star etc. All the Pride events are pretty poor and just basically club nights out. I really don't think the pubs will be able to cope with the numbers this year.


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    #14
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    It would be good if the city closed off some streets this year.... Capel St in particular.


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    #15
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,068 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Aard wrote: »
    It would be good if the city closed off some streets this year.... Capel St in particular.

    I still think we're a few years from that. There's no imagination from the Pride committee, the council and the Gardai.


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    #16
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    I don't know about the Pride committee, but given the level of activity on the 23rd of May on Capel St I'm sure the Gardaí would prefer to simply close the road off than dedicating so many resources to making sure nobody got hit by traffic.


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    #17
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    I still think we're a few years from that. There's no imagination from the Pride committee, the council and the Gardai.

    Imagination in what sense?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #18
    Shanerygan
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Shanerygan


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    There seems to be this idea that all lgbt people suddenly became fully equal on May 23rd and that the idea of lgbt pride is now an irrelevance.

    I could not disagree more. Yes the marriage equality referendum passed and the gender recocgnition act and amending section 37 of the Emploment Act are about to happen.

    These are welcome legal changes. They do not and should not mean..

    1. Homophobia/Biphobia and Transphobia just stopped overnight and no longer exist
    2. That important historical elements of lgbt culture should simply desist.
    3. That other important issues relevant to the lgbt community cannot and should not be publicly shown.
    4. That we should not show solidarity with the millions of lgbt people who suffer daily around the world.
    5. That we should not choose to celebrate who we are.

    For me the pride movement is something that cannot and should not simply be ended suddenly.

    I think we still need pride today because of the mentality of schoolboys towards gay children is still a problem, amongst other things. Walking down the hallways, you still hear people calling each other "gay" as an insult. Its really hurtful and the schools never do anything about it. In other words, the mindset of schoolboys (and possibly schoolgirls) today is that its strange or wrong to be gay. Or at least, they presume that all their friends are straight.

    Source: Is gay schoolboy


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    #19
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Shanerygan wrote: »
    I think we still need pride today because of the mentality of schoolboys towards gay children is still a problem, amongst other things. Walking down the hallways, you still hear people calling each other "gay" as an insult. Its really hurtful and the schools never do anything about it. In other words, the mindset of schoolboys (and possibly schoolgirls) today is that its strange or wrong to be gay. Or at least, they presume that all their friends are straight.

    Source: Is gay schoolboy

    Is it?

    The impression I have is that because of the massively work of belong to over the last 10 years that this has changed a lot.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #20
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Is it?

    The impression I have is that because of the massively work of belong to over the last 10 years that this has changed a lot.

    There has been no 'belong to' work in my former school nor in any of the schools that surround my home area. Liberal bubble?


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    #21
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Is it?

    The impression I have is that because of the massively work of belong to over the last 10 years that this has changed a lot.

    That's awfully naive. Majority of schools around the country have had little or no presence of any sort. Kids are left to learn about LGBT folk through either media or stories from friends. There's little you can do to convince many when they take those preconceptions to secondary school.These supports are nearly always biased towards Dublin schools too.


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    #22
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,068 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Imagination in what sense?

    The festival doesn't seem to have changed or moved on in the last 6 or 7 years. The same parade and the same events. The Merrion Square Village isn't popular. The numbers attending each year keep increasing and they haven't adequately responded to the growing interest.

    Closed off streets, large street parties with a big concert with decent acts. Make it ticketed if needs be. I don't understand why they can't do this. The city would make a complete fortune.


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    #23
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    The festival doesn't seem to have changed or moved on in the last 6 or 7 years. The same parade and the same events. The Merrion Square Village isn't popular. The numbers attending each year keep increasing and they haven't adequately responded to the growing interest.

    Closed off streets, large street parties with a big concert with decent acts. Make it ticketed if needs be. I don't understand why they can't do this. The city would make a complete fortune.

    Em Merrion Square only came in 2 years ago.
    Theres a huge variety of events.

    Have you considered maybe sending ideas you have to pride or attending their meetings in order to put ideas forward

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #24
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,068 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Em Merrion Square only came in 2 years ago.
    Theres a huge variety of events.

    Have you considered maybe sending ideas you have to pride or attending their meetings in order to put ideas forward

    So unless I send ideas I'm not allowed to complain!?


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    #25
    Shanerygan
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Shanerygan


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Is it?

    The impression I have is that because of the massively work of belong to over the last 10 years that this has changed a lot.

    Definitely not in my school, nor any of my friends schools. We learned about homophobic bullying and how hurtful it is for about two minutes, tops before the teacher moved on to the next subject.

    Schoolchildren just presume everyone in the school is straight, at least in my experience unfortunately.


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    #26
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    So unless I send ideas I'm not allowed to complain!?

    I didn't say that. I suggested that if you have ideas you could put them forward.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #27
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,068 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I didn't say that. I suggested that if you have ideas you could put them forward.

    I took it as a smart remark really.

    My opinion is that the Pride festival lacks imagination and hasn't adequately addressed the growing interest.


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    #28
    Shanerygan
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Shanerygan


    Ive never been to a pride festival so I cant contribute. This year will be my first.


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    #29
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    I took it as a smart remark really.

    My opinion is that the Pride festival lacks imagination and hasn't adequately addressed the growing interest.

    I'm really not trying to be condescending or smart at all but really if you have ideas or opinions on the matter and think things could be improved why can you not do something with these ideas?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #30
    Ash885
    Registered Users Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Ash885


    This will be my first Pride too! Looking forward to it, and hopefully will put away any of those cliché opinions I had in previous years to it.


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    #31
    Nokia6230i
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Nokia6230i


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    The most important use of Pride in the immediate future would be to address the biggest issue we know face as a community and one that frankly our community leaders have not addressed as they should and that is HIV. Even today we see alarming statistics about the growth in the disease, a disease we could have eliminated entirely by now. Instead we have young gay men being diagnosed. Its utterly shameful.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-hiv-infections-at-highest-in-five-years-682005.html#.VX6Xr0-feWg.twitter

    Wake up gays.

    Belated reply to this post but Gay Health Network & Dublin Pride, collaboratively, are handing out FREE condoms in the gay bars around town this Saturday the 20th of June as Pride Week in Dublin begins.

    http://www.gayhealthnetwork.ie/

    Pride both want & need volunteers. Interested? As their FB Page says in a Status Update posted on Wednesday morning at 9am, email Scott at community@dublinpride.ie for further info & to volunteer your services please.

    Thanks.

    It may not totally assuage the point you're making "Jobbridge4life" but it is a start and is addressing the issue to a point.


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