Car free Dublin City Centre?

Undercover Elephant

Just to add - the point of strict liability in this context is not to make some sort of moral judgment about fault. It's to ensure that any injuries are covered by insurance. The Dutch system gets to more or less the same place by a slightly different route, as described in the article linked by tomasrojo.

RainyDay

glued wrote: »

There are as many idiots on two wheels as there are on four.

Probably true on a percentage basis anyway. The main difference is that the idiots on four wheels kill about 200 people each year and maim thousands of others. The idiots on two wheels don't.

buffalo

A good critical analysis of the recent IPA survey of 'shoppers' that claimed a potential 24% drop in spend in the city centre given the council's possible plans:

http://dublininquirer.com/2015/08/12/is-the-irish-parking-associations-survey-skewed/

traprunner

buffalo wrote: »

A good critical analysis of the recent IPA survey of 'shoppers' that claimed a potential 24% drop in spend in the city centre given the council's possible plans:

http://dublininquirer.com/2015/08/12/is-the-irish-parking-associations-survey-skewed/

The survey results sound like Red C stood at the entrance to a car park to do a survey.

Good critical thinking by the Dublin Inquirer.

Leroy42

I remember hearing about this survey on NT. I remember thinking that here is the ICP running a survey telling everyone that without cars (and therefore carparking) everyone will suffer!

And not one question for the host regarding bias. Why only ask car driver what they think? Why not ask everyone?

tomasrojo

I think it must go like this:
Here's a report from the RSA. Hmm. Yes, the introduction conforms with what I already thought to be true. <copy-paste press release>
Here's a survey from the ICP. Hmm. Yes, the introduction conforms with what I already thought to be true. <copy-paste press release>

Thinkingaboutit

Dublin has better public transport than much of the country, but doesn't come close in terms of price or service quality to meeting the needs of a car restricted city centre. There are also disabled and older people with limited mobility who find an adapted car far better than a bus. Also, why can't buses run on something cleaner? I hate being on a bike behind a giant contraption belching out black smoke. I think this is a pipe dream like that 30 km limit and other efforts.

manafana

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

Dublin has better public transport than much of the country, but doesn't come close in terms of price or service quality to meeting the needs of a car restricted city centre. There are also disabled and older people with limited mobility who find an adapted car far better than a bus. Also, why can't buses run on something cleaner? I hate being on a bike behind a giant contraption belching out black smoke. I think this is a pipe dream like that 30 km limit and other efforts.

its not stopping people driving into the city is it though its just limiting how much of the road they can take up, and public transport especially the luas is prefect for limited mobility users anyway.

some buses are dirty so are cars mind you too.

The survey figures are quiet positive for the change considering how bias it is it still comes out that not being able park right next to the shops won't affect them

Qualitymark

But we really need to get more housetrained about how we treat our public space. Dublin's got indescribably better in terms of litter (well, most of Dublin) in the last few years, but it's sickening to see people leaving half-eaten food and drinks and cans and packets strewn on buses. Ick

P_Cash

I have to jump in here.

Banning cars from the city will never work with the way the city operates today.

How many of those cars are tourists, day trippers, business people etc. . All of those cars parked in all the multistorys etc across the city, where are you putting them all? If people are too only walk in the city, wheres the car? Wheres the train to get them in to the city?

We are a long way off banning cars

buffalo

P_Cash wrote: »

I have to jump in here.

Banning cars from the city will never work with the way the city operates today.

How many of those cars are tourists, day trippers, business people etc. . All of those cars parked in all the multistorys etc across the city, where are you putting them all? If people are too only walk in the city, wheres the car? Wheres the train to get them in to the city?

We are a long way off banning cars

Have you read the report? There's no banning of cars from the city centre, nor closing of multi-storey car parks.

manafana

buffalo wrote: »

Have you read the report? There's no banning of cars from the city centre, nor closing of multi-storey car parks.

correct, however in long term wouldn't it is a long term plan to park outside the city and move in.

But for now its too free up the middle of the city from cars, the speeding in the city centre is still insane and a far bigger problem than bikes jumping lights.

Leroy42

P_Cash wrote: »

I have to jump in here.

Banning cars from the city will never work with the way the city operates today.

How many of those cars are tourists, day trippers, business people etc. . All of those cars parked in all the multistorys etc across the city, where are you putting them all? If people are too only walk in the city, wheres the car? Wheres the train to get them in to the city?

We are a long way off banning cars

Yes we are and all those things you mention need to be provided.

I agree that simply banning cars will not work, or will have a detremental effect on city centre business.

However, we need to start the conversation somewhere as even car users will admit that the current system is not working and with population due to increase in cities in the future we need to plan for it.

Cities really should be car free zones for those the live within them (as in the car should only be required for occasional use) and facilities need to be provided to ensure that people outside the zone have the place to park their vehicles before getting on public transport (be it rail, bus, bike etc).

Of course, what will actually happen, as it did for the bus lanes and Luas, is we will simply ban the cars and that in itself will prove how successful banning the cars is. With the bus lanes, we simply removed a load of lanes from car use and then said we will get around to getting additional bus services when people start using them!

tomasrojo

From an economic point of view, retail and entertainment can't get many more people in by car. The canal bridges are a very big limiting factor.

There is no proposal from ICP/Brown Thomas/Arnotts, apart from business as usual, which is a maxed-out scenario.

The poor air quality, which is almost entirely due to private motor transport, is another huge negative. It may account for more premature deaths than collisions. (Anyone know whether any decent research has been done on this for Dublin, as it has been for London?)

Qualitymark

Dublin City Council also needs to do something serious about bike parking. I walked three streets before finding even a road sign - much less a dedicated bike rack - near Exchequer Street the other day. Rainy day, too, so fewer bikes than usual in town.

There are far too few bicycle parking places, and they often seem to be randomly placed.

Poor air quality - I read recently that respiratory illnesses are one of the leading causes of death in Ireland… not sure where the link was. But there's no question but getting more people cycling would improve all kinds of health, and a car-free city centre would be much nicer to live in.

Maybe the government could offer a waiver on property tax and water rates plus free bus fares to certain suburbs if they were car-free

tomasrojo

I think that is a point that gets lost in general economic arguments: poor respiratory health and consequent premature death is a very large economic cost. There's a tendency to neglect most of the "negative externalities" around private motor transport. Which is sort of understandable, as they are so numerous. But, hey, red-light jumping!

Undercover Elephant

Dublin is actually one of the better capital cities for air quality, just behind Tallinn. This was on the BBC's website a couple of weeks ago - phone not helping me find it now.

Of course, that's not comparing like with like. Dublin is quite small and has one side comprised of water.

magicbastarder

one of the issues with air quality would be how many diesel cars have been sold in ireland over the last ten years. the irish fell in love with diesel, even when a diesel car was a lesser choice for many.

tomasrojo

Diesel cars were promoted in part on environmental grounds, because of their greater fuel efficiency, weren't they? One of those unintended consequences.

magicbastarder

yep, but people generally bought them because they were cheaper to run.

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

yep, but people generally bought them because they were cheaper to run.

A few years ago, definitely, down in the country you were considered foolish if you bought a petrol car as per litre diesel was cheaper, on longer journeys it was more economical and more importantly, until the customs started clamping down, I suspect many a farmer was driving with incredibly cheap diesel.

magicbastarder

problem is for drivers making short journeys, diesels don't perform nearly as well as the engine doesn't get up to temperature for long enough.