Playwright - Blackrock what's happening???

Blut2

starbaby2003 wrote: »

You're probably right. I hope not though. Such a waste a building of that size sitting there vacant.

When did TGIs close? 2010-ish? Its such a long length of time to sit idle, given how expensive the property was.

the groutch

limited parking was, and always will be an issue there.
public transport access is also somewhat limited.
I'd image these are significant issues in attracting a new buyer/leasee

toreilly

Anyone got any update on this? Recently there has been posters on the windows of a shopping centre but still no name. Weird.

L1011

toreilly wrote: »

Anyone got any update on this? Recently there has been posters on the windows of a shopping centre but still no name. Weird.

Those posters are put up to make somewhere look less derelict/empty, nothing else.

The drink licence for the pub is still active - which is not free to do - so someone still has plans clearly.

toreilly

It's going on so long it's mad. Must be costing them a fortune. Can't wait for it to open. As long as it's something nice 😉

nuttyboy79

Passed by it the other day and there was a guy cleaning the windows inside the place, there was other movement going on behind him I was driving so couldn't see all that much.

coylemj

nuttyboy79 wrote: »

Passed by it the other day and there was a guy cleaning the windows inside the place, there was other movement going on behind him I was driving so couldn't see all that much.

Nothing has happened there in the past six or more months other than the recent installation of posters inside the windows showing shopping images, this despite the fact that there is no 'To Let' or 'For Sale' sign on the premises.

Bear in mind that there is already a convenience store down the hill at the Texaco filing station where in/out access is far better than it would be to a store located at the Playwright site so I cannot see anyone opening a Centra or similar store there.

Something it would be suitable for would be the type of store operated by Avoca where shoppers do a lot of browsing followed by a coffee or lunch.

toreilly

Avoca would be great. But I suppose it's too close to Monkstown. Rumours so far are, Tesco, Lidl, Aldi and Avoca.

starbaby2003

toreilly wrote: »

Avoca would be great. But I suppose it's too close to Monkstown. Rumours so far are, Tesco, Lidl, Aldi and Avoca.

Avoca would be great. Their scones are lovely.

spillit67

I suggested the Avoca on here as something that would be good for the site about a year and a half go. Shortly after I read on Facebook and elsewhere that that's what was going in.

All of the rumours are twaddle, just made up by someone as a suggestion and ran with with by someone who reads here.

It will likely be a supermarket and a few shops going by the premises but nothing is signed for the place. When it is, work might pick up on it for longer than a couple of weeks.

Living Off The Splash

Seems to be something happening now. Anyone know?

starbaby2003

I passed on It on Sunday. No planning up or anything. Just a "to let" sign. Didn't notice anything. What was happening?

beer enigma

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

Seems to be something happening now. Anyone know?

Application Date:
16-Feb-2017
Planning Application Ref:
D11A/0602/C3
Registration Date:
16-Feb-2017
Decision Date:
29-Mar-2017
Application Type:
Compliance with Conditions
Extension of time to:
Main Location:
The Playwright Public House, Newtownpark Avenue, Blackrock, Co. Dublin
Proposal:
Compliance re Condition no. 12 (PL06D.240355)
Full Description:
Compliance re Condition no. 12 (PL06D.240355). Planning permission is sought for modifications to previous planning permissions (Reg. Ref. D11A/0092 & D09A/0930) consisting of a new pedestrian access from Newtown Park Road, alterations to the car park, modifications to the elevations, signage, plant and all ancillary site development works and site services. Planning permission is also sought for a change of use from pub/restaurant to shop (770 sq.m net) with associated basement storage and subsidiary alcohol sales area.

http://planning.dlrcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=D11A/0602/C3&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=1965934%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=2269947%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=rgndat:desc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=1965934%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

starbaby2003

This was denied. Does this mean they can't change to a shop and it must stay as bar /restaurant or they just need to plant more trees ????! Also I thought those guys only had restaurants so would this be a precursor to selling ?

beer enigma

starbaby2003 wrote: »

This was denied. Does this mean they can't change to a shop and it must stay as bar /restaurant or they just need to plant more trees ????! Also I thought those guys only had restaurants so would this be a precursor to selling ?

This was just an amendment to the main planning, The original change of use went through (just can't find the application),so this denial is just a minor blip, the previous similar amendment was passed...

Thiss looks like the original change of use which was passed:

Permission for Change of Use of existing 2-storey building (173sqm) from residential to retail use and a single storey retail extension to rear (214 sqm) to provide two retail areas (area 1 = 237 sqm, area 2 = 57 sqm, circulation = 8 sqm). Also, 9 new car parking spaces to rear to be accessed via the Playwright premises car park circulation area. Also, single storey shopfront extension to front. Also, demolition of 5 sqm of existing.

http://planning.dlrcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=D14A/0777&theTabNo=1&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=1965956%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href=%27wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=2269973%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=rgndat:desc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=1965956%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%27%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

CeilingFly

Reading this with interest. Used to live nearby.

On planning, you have different planning for different parts of the development. Above post is for buildings attached but not part of old Playwright.

Latest planning is for change in delivery hours to 6am-8am and 7pm to 10pm.

My guess for occupants

Starbucks (franchise operated by the Butlers)

Fresh the good food market, who have said they plan additional stores.

Its too small for Aldi / lidl / tesco.
Too big for tesco Express. Too small for new style avoca.

Could take a Supervalu, but Fresh is probably the most likely suitor.

spillit67

It needs to be just leveled and turned into apartments at this point, madness that such a prime site has been idle for so long.

Zascar

I worked there many years ago and it was a fantastic spot in it's day. Such a great venue with the mezzanine and great catchment area. Place used to be packed with people who would on on to Club 92. Food was very good too. Such a pity no one could make it work.

starbaby2003

spillit67 wrote: »

It needs to be just leveled and turned into apartments at this point, madness that such a prime site has been idle for so long.

I don't agree with that at all. There are at least three if not four developments currently in the works within a 1km radius. A small supermarket with cafe would work well there imo.

spillit67

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I don't agree with that at all. There are at least three if not four developments currently in the works within a 1km radius. A small supermarket with cafe would work well there imo.

Seemingly nobody wants the property though and the Butlers have been trying to get a super market in there since they closed TGIs. Remember that the old Piggybank which became a Centra didn't last too long there. In fact if you include the old Ardagh shop; 3 shops have ceased trading in the area in the last 15 years. The area grew significantly in the 70s/80s but barring a few small developments it has been at its maximum capacity since the Carysfort Estates went in the late 90s.

As regards being a mini shopping centre. The area has two large enough shops/small markets in close proximity - the Spar and the Texaco. Cafe wise one closed recently enough but you have the Glutten Free Cafe as well as the Wishing Well close by. You have a butchers. You have a couple of hairdresses, 2/3 barbers, a bookies, a funeral parlour, two laundrettes, two restaurants, two takeaways and an off licence close by (off the top of my head). That's a community quite well covered and as mentioned we've seen various shops & other businesses come and go in the last few years.

What I think could work would be a total reconfiguration of the Playwright and Newpark Shopping Centre site into one with better parking and access. But the NSC doesn't have any issues with getting tenants and the owner (s?) must be making quite a bit off a building that is there at least 30 years at this stage.

Awaaf

spillit67 wrote: »

Seemingly nobody wants the property though and the Butlers have been trying to get a super market in there since they closed TGIs. Remember that the old Piggybank which became a Centra didn't last too long there. In fact if you include the old Ardagh shop; 3 shops have ceased trading in the area in the last 15 years. The area grew significantly in the 70s/80s but barring a few small developments it has been at its maximum capacity since the Carysfort Estates went in the late 90s.

As regards being a mini shopping centre. The area has two large enough shops/small markets in close proximity - the Spar and the Texaco. Cafe wise one closed recently enough but you have the Glutten Free Cafe as well as the Wishing Well close by. You have a butchers. You have a couple of hairdresses, 2/3 barbers, a bookies, a funeral parlour, two laundrettes, two restaurants, two takeaways and an off licence close by (off the top of my head). That's a community quite well covered and as mentioned we've seen various shops & other businesses come and go in the last few years.

What I think could work would be a total reconfiguration of the Playwright and Newpark Shopping Centre site into one with better parking and access. But the NSC doesn't have any issues with getting tenants and the owner (s?) must be making quite a bit off a building that is there at least 30 years at this stage.

The presence of an undertaker locally tells you all you need to know. It needs to appeal to a wider locality. I agree connecting the two neighbouring commercial sites makes sense. I am surprised the planners didn't insist on it. If they did that and made an easy in easy out parking no-brainer it could attract people from a wide area who would see it as a simpler and quicker solution than the more parking blighted locations.

Blut2

Anything that resulted in a lot more vehicle traffic to the area would probably be objected to by the locals, though.

I'm surprised nobody has bothered to try running it as a pub again. By all accounts it was wildly successful for quite a while as the Playwright. Why did it change to TGIs in the first place?

It would have been a great location for a Wetherspoons if they hadn't already moved into Blackrock village.

Exclamation Marc

Blut2 wrote: »

Anything that resulted in a lot more vehicle traffic to the area would probably be objected to by the locals, though.

I'm surprised nobody has bothered to try running it as a pub again. By all accounts it was wildly successful for quite a while as the Playwright. Why did it change to TGIs in the first place?

It would have been a great location for a Wetherspoons if they hadn't already moved into Blackrock village.

TGIs was dead by the end of its run, not even cheap drinks could lure locals in, and the original Playwright customers all moved on to the Wishing Well. You'd have been mad to reopen another pub there.

It changed to TGIs as they purchased it for a fair wedge way back when and the offer was too good to refuse.

It's quite hard to think of what would be successful there.

Blut2

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

TGIs was dead by the end of its run, not even cheap drinks could lure locals in, and the original Playwright customers all moved on to the Wishing Well. You'd have been mad to reopen another pub there.

It changed to TGIs as they purchased it for a fair wedge way back when and the offer was too good to refuse.

It's quite hard to think of what would be successful there.

Oh I remember TGIs being completely dead. Thats an entirely different issue to whether a pub could be successful there or not, though.

If the only reason the Playwright closed was an over-the-odds offer from TGIs then it would stand to reason there might be a market for a pub there, still.

Its not a great option, but I'd wager it would have a higher chance of success than a mini-market with minimal parking competing with Texaco and Spar. And it would be a better use of the property than leaving it empty for a decade...

spillit67

Blut2 wrote: »

Oh I remember TGIs being completely dead. Thats an entirely different issue to whether a pub could be successful there or not, though.

If the only reason the Playwright closed was an over-the-odds offer from TGIs then it would stand to reason there might be a market for a pub there, still.

Its not a great option, but I'd wager it would have a higher chance of success than a mini-market with minimal parking competing with Texaco and Spar. And it would be a better use of the property than leaving it empty for a decade...

A lot has changed since the Playwright turned into a TGIs (just over 10 years ago now).

The area seems to be a bit older but I know the Playwright attracted people from all over the Dún Laoghaire borough so that's a bit moot.

But just look at Club 92 which is mentioned in here. It isn't as busy as it once was. The deregulation of the taxi industry changed a lot in terms of supply but stuff like Taxi Apps have made it easier than ever to get in and out of town. Young people don't need to drink in the suburbs anymore. They drink in houses and go into town. You have some places like Dalkey and Bray which keep up the idea of a suburban full night out but it isn't what it was.

The Super Pub is a dying breed.

The big mistake with the TGIs/Playwright thing was getting rid of the Old Man Bar which they had. They should have kept the lounge for TGIs and the Pub part for the old reliables. But I think when TGIs opened that it did well at the start so they thought they should expand.

The way it went with TGIs long term might not have been the worst thing if it wasn't a TGIs. You had a restaurant upstairs, an old pub part and TGIs. Replace TGIs with a good place for pensioners and people of leisure to do lunch and it could have worked long term.

But that horse has bolted with the work they started on it years ago.

spillit67

Blut2 wrote: »

Anything that resulted in a lot more vehicle traffic to the area would probably be objected to by the locals, though.

I'm surprised nobody has bothered to try running it as a pub again. By all accounts it was wildly successful for quite a while as the Playwright. Why did it change to TGIs in the first place?

It would have been a great location for a Wetherspoons if they hadn't already moved into Blackrock village.

Which is quite understandable really, the traffic down Newtown Park Avenue can be quite bad and I don't think the Playwright site has sufficient parking.

spillit67

Awaaf wrote: »

The presence of an undertaker locally tells you all you need to know. It needs to appeal to a wider locality. I agree connecting the two neighbouring commercial sites makes sense. I am surprised the planners didn't insist on it. If they did that and made an easy in easy out parking no-brainer it could attract people from a wide area who would see it as a simpler and quicker solution than the more parking blighted locations.

I would be interested to know who owns that property, it has done very well.

coylemj

spillit67 wrote: »

Which is quite understandable really, the traffic down Newtown Park Avenue can be quite bad and I don't think the Playwright site has sufficient parking.

It has bags of parking but the days of driving to the pub have gone so the poor public transport links in that area are the problem. It's too far from the Dart and there's no bus service worth talking about.

Someone speculated that it might have been a potential Wetherspoons, I'd disagree. JDW tends to go for locations with plenty of passing trade, that's why they're on Blackrock main street and in the middle of Dun Laoghaire, they're not really into neighbourhood pubs. The staff they employ are purely into shifting beer and food, not making smalltalk with customers.

Blut2

spillit67 wrote: »

A lot has changed since the Playwright turned into a TGIs (just over 10 years ago now).
[snip]

I absolutely agree with many of those factors being against running a pub on the premises being a 'good' option. But my point is its probably the least bad commercial use of the property currently.

The only alternative that has been floating, a mini-mart, seems destined to fail. And quickly.

And letting it sit idle for the guts of a decade seems a horrific use of an investment.

Aside from that, maybe a restaurant?

Exclamation Marc

Blut2 wrote: »

Aside from that, maybe a restaurant?

A restaurant would be a massive gamble and that's the problem. TGIs, albeit more of a diner, failed badly even with budget menus. Dantes was never even mildly busy and was depressing to be in. The small restaurant on Newtownpark down from the Wishing Well has changed owners a number of times and probably only sits a dozen people and the Blue Orchid does well enough as its niche. You'd need someone with seriously deep pockets who doesn't mind losing the money and has some love for the area to take a punt there. On top of that, it's a huge space.

Blackrock main street would be more viable for anyone looking to open a restaurant and even there would be a massive risk so taking one up on Newtownpark Avenue would be mad. With Stillorgan renovating too, up that direction would be more preferable for that type of business.

I could only ever see a mini-mart of sorts having any legs there and even that would seem a huge risk. Even offices would be a tough sell given the virtually non-existent public transport.

I agree it's a total waste of a premises though.