Dublin Fire service recruitment? Anyone know??

Bryanwilder

Hi guys, I'm new to this site, can anyone tell me when Dublin Fire service do are recruiting? Is it various times of the year?

Thanks,

Bryan

Fire1985

Apparently DFB are recruiting shortly. Have heard this from a few people. Definitely this year anyway

Fire1985

Apparently DFB are recruiting shortly. Have heard this from a few people. Definitely this year anyway

Bryanwilder

Fire1985 wrote:

Apparently DFB are recruiting shortly. Have heard this from a few people. Definitely this year anyway

Are you firefighter yourself yeah? I've been looking around and can't seem to find. Would you send me a link of something when you hear of it?

Bryan

thatboy

http://irishfireservices.ie/forum

Rumour on above forum today.

"Approval has been granted for recruitment of 66 firefighters made up of two classes next year. First class predicted to start in January. Should be advertised within the next month, I'd presume on Publicjobs.ie as before."

Bryanwilder

thatboy wrote:

"Approval has been granted for recruitment of 66 firefighters made up of two classes next year. First class predicted to start in January. Should be advertised within the next month, I'd presume on Publicjobs.ie as before."

Thanks, appreciate that!

Kidasa

Will it be 3 years in control first? Are the people in control from the last drive going to get out of control?

searescue

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=884229518314538&id=164905970246900

thatboy

Wonder when it will be advertised

SAFO

Kidasa wrote: »

Will it be 3 years in control first? Are the people in control from the last drive going to get out of control?

No apparently they are going to get screwed. From the get go each class was advised by DFB management that they would form the next recruit class of firefighters into DFB. All recruitment into DFB was supposed to be through the control room but it now appears that commitment has been reneged on. The present ESCO group have been basically told by SIPTU to Foxtrot Oscar as they have no interest in them. "Ain't they lucky to have jobs" Some representation from the union.
They have been now told that they will have to fulfill the contracts they signed on joining.
These guys had to do two aptitudes tests to get in to the control room and all this for something like €9.84 an hour before shift pay.
Nobody in the DFB seems to cares what happens to the ESCOs except for a few lads who work on the same watches as them.
I know some lads who are ESCOs and they are bitterly disappointed with what is supposedly to happen to them.
Oh their reps have told them that they can apply for the firefighter positions. Yippee.

Squirrelsnuts

SAFO wrote: »

No apparently they are going to get screwed. From the get go each class was advised by DFB management that they would form the next recruit class of firefighters into DFB. All recruitment into DFB was supposed to be through the control room but it now appears that commitment has been reneged on. The present ESCO group have been basically told by SIPTU to Foxtrot Oscar as they have no interest in them. "Ain't they lucky to have jobs" Some representation from the union.
They have been now told that they will have to fulfill the contracts they signed on joining.
These guys had to do two aptitudes tests to get in to the control room and all this for something like €9.84 an hour before shift pay.
Nobody in the DFB seems to cares what happens to the ESCOs except for a few lads who work on the same watches as them.
I know some lads who are ESCOs and they are bitterly disappointed with what is supposedly to happen to them.
Oh their reps have told them that they can apply for the firefighter positions. Yippee.

How many of them is there? Very poor form. Surely they'll be looked after if they can make it to the interview stage I the process?

D Trent

SAFO wrote: »

No apparently they are going to get screwed. From the get go each class was advised by DFB management that they would form the next recruit class of firefighters into DFB. All recruitment into DFB was supposed to be through the control room but it now appears that commitment has been reneged on. The present ESCO group have been basically told by SIPTU to Foxtrot Oscar as they have no interest in them. "Ain't they lucky to have jobs" Some representation from the union.
They have been now told that they will have to fulfill the contracts they signed on joining.
These guys had to do two aptitudes tests to get in to the control room and all this for something like €9.84 an hour before shift pay.
Nobody in the DFB seems to cares what happens to the ESCOs except for a few lads who work on the same watches as them.
I know some lads who are ESCOs and they are bitterly disappointed with what is supposedly to happen to them.
Oh their reps have told them that they can apply for the firefighter positions. Yippee.

Can IFESA stand up for you guys ?

SAFO

Squirrelsnuts wrote: »

How many of them is there? Very poor form. Surely they'll be looked after if they can make it to the interview stage I the process?

The lads I know are not holding their breath on that one. Besides the aptitude tests are lotteries at the best of times so not all of them will be so lucky again.

But you are right it really is bad form and the worst of it for me is the attitude of the union towards them. They are an absolute disgrace.

SAFO

D Trent wrote: »

Can IFESA stand up for you guys ?

I'm not an ESCO I just know a couple of them and they are afraid to kick up about it. They all fear that they might be victimised if they complain to much as they are on temporary contracts.

IFESA are not recognised by Dublin City Council as far as I'm aware so they would not be any use to the lads.

SIPTU are no use anymore as they're too cosy with management to serve their members well.

thatboy

Any word on when this will be advertised?

Bombero

thatboy wrote: »

Any word on when this will be advertised?

register for job alerts on publicjobs.ie and you'll get an email as soon as its relased

Arruabarrena

As far as I'm aware they intend on utilizing the same process as last time

thatboy

Arruabarrena wrote: »

As far as I'm aware they intend on utilizing the same process as last time

Including an online aptitude?

I've also heard there is intention to use the remaining panel from the internal competition. That's hearsay/rumour from bumping into someone in supermarket now.

OffalyMedic

thatboy wrote:

I've also heard there is intention to use the remaining panel from the internal competition. That's hearsay/rumour from bumping into someone in supermarket now.

I was talking to someone who is a fireman with dublin fire brigade and he said there were 80 spots to be filled with 10 held back for the call centre people from last recruitment as per croke park/Harrington road agreement. Also just hearsay though

Arruabarrena

There are only 8 people remaining on the current Firefighter panel (Internal from 4 Dublin LAs). That panel expires later this month.

My guess is they'll have to re-apply when it's advertised within the 4 Dublin LAs again. No idea on timeframe though.

SAFO

It was decided the other day by the 4 Local Authorities that recruitment will be now internal only, like the the last firefighter competition. Siptu are not happy and have written to the city manager to complain. The CFO apparently is also unhappy with this option.

SAFO

The remaining members of the previous firefighter panel were apparently contacted 2/3 weeks ago to inquire if they were still interested in the position.

D Trent

SAFO wrote: »

It was decided the other day by the 4 Local Authorities that recruitment will be now internal only, like the the last firefighter competition. Siptu are not happy and have written to the city manager to complain. The CFO apparently is also unhappy with this option.

If that is the case why does this state that PAS/publicjobs.ie will be involved in recruitment process ?

https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=884229518314538&id=164905970246900

SAFO

D Trent wrote: »

If that is the case why does this state that PAS/publicjobs.ie will be involved in recruitment process ?

https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=884229518314538&id=164905970246900

Quite simple really: the last internal competition was also done through Public Jobs.

TallGlass

Well, that's a killer was fairly interested in applying. So the 4 LA's will hire internally, which is the next question, how do you get a job there?

Amazing how AGS couldn't do this with the Reserves yet the LAs are allowed. Whats the logic on it, is there a reason they want to just hire from internally, will it be cheaper?

At leased they got one thing correct in contacting the panel to see if they where interested rather than just dropping them.

Arruabarrena

Its all about keeping staff numbers down. Plus they were very happy with the quality of candidate from the last 4 Dublin LAs comp.

thatboy

So theyre going to recruit 66 internally?

thatboy

http://www.siptu.ie/media/pressreleases2015/mainnews/fullstory_19195_en.html

Fire1985

Any further updates on internal or external recruiting lads?

TallGlass

Well looking at that Siptu notice if they don't go public theres going to be a strike !

Anyone know the requirements for DFB ?

Arruabarrena

The 66 is Firefighters plus ESCOs. They want it all internally, i.e no public comp at all. Meetings ongoing so could change.

thatboy

Arruabarrena wrote: »

The 66 is Firefighters plus ESCOs. They want it all internally, i.e no public comp at all. Meetings ongoing so could change.

Cheers for update Arruabarrena.

Fr.damo

I'm just curious to hear people's opinions on the pros and cons of internal v external recruitment?

reddington

Why are you so curious Fr ??????

Fr.damo

reddington wrote: »

Why are you so curious Fr ??????

Personally I'm not a big fan of internal recruitment.I don't think a person who just fancied a change of job will have the same passion and motivation as a person who has always wanted the job.I'm just curious to hear other opinions which might change my thinking on it.

Arruabarrena

I believe this is to be advertised internally next week. The 8 remaining people on the internal FF panel will be taken from the panel as far as I'm aware.

thatboy

So they're going for all 66 internally?

Arruabarrena

I believe so

thatboy

Didn't expect the unions to agree to that. interesting to see how things are unfolding.

Paulzx

thatboy wrote: »

Didn't expect the unions to agree to that. interesting to see how things are unfolding.

They haven't.

The unions have no problem with the internal recruitment per se. They just don't believe that it will achieve the adequate numbers required. DFB is seriously understaffed at present despite DCC management constantly being told over the last 5 years by the staff reps that a crisis was looming.

Senior management agreed last month to externally recruit. However when the Chief Executive was told of this he immediately forced his senior management team to renage on the deal they had just signed off on with unions. He insisted on only using internal recruitment.

He was informed by his managers that this was a flawed process and that an external competition needed to be run alongside the internal so as to avoid undue delays. He again rejected this against advice.

The bottom line is that the City manager is determind to run DFB into the ground and he doesn't want to recruit anyone. Recruiting is not on his agenda and he is again using this as a delaying tactic.

He wants manning cuts in DFB.......end of.

So, whats happening now. The unions want him to run both competitions at the same time in order to ensure we get our numbers back up to safe manning levels. Day in, day out DFB is running below safe manning levels despite trying to fill the gaps with overtime. He is refusing point blank. At the moment ballots are being cast for industrial action.

SAFO

Paulzx wrote: »

They haven't.

The unions have no problem with the internal recruitment per se. They just don't believe that it will achieve the adequate numbers required. DFB is seriously understaffed at present despite DCC management constantly being told over the last 5 years by the staff reps that a crisis was looming.

Senior management agreed last month to externally recruit. However when the Chief Executive was told of this he immediately forced his senior management team to renage on the deal they had just signed off on with unions. He insisted on only using internal recruitment.

He was informed by his managers that this was a flawed process and that an external competition needed to be run alongside the internal so as to avoid undue delays. He again rejected this against advice.


The bottom line is that the City manager is determind to run DFB into the ground and he doesn't want to recruit anyone. Recruiting is not on his agenda and he is again using this as a delaying tactic.

He wants manning cuts in DFB.......end of.

So, whats happening now. The unions want him to run both competitions at the same time in order to ensure we get our numbers back up to safe manning levels. Day in, day out DFB is running below safe manning levels despite trying to fill the gaps with overtime. He is refusing point blank. At the moment ballots are being cast for industrial action.

Why don't you support the 28 ESCOs? They have already gone through the process of becoming firefighters and they had been promised by DFB management that they were the next firefighters to be trained up but that is being reneged on. These people have helped prevent the control room from being civilianised by taking up these positions and all for a basic pay of little more than the minimum wage, but most of you have turned your back on them.

Paulzx

SAFO wrote: »

Why don't you support the 28 ESCOs? They have already gone through the process of becoming firefighters and they had been promised by DFB management that they were the next firefighters to be trained up but that is being reneged on. These people have helped prevent the control room from being civilianised by taking up these positions and all for a basic pay of little more than the minimum wage, but most of you have turned your back on them.

I'll excuse the ignorance shown in this post and put it down to someone being misinformed rather than having an axe to grind.

No one has "turned their back" on anyone despite what you seem to think. The ESC's joined with the intention of being FF trained after 3 years. None of them are 3 years in the job.

The ESC appointments also never precluded DFB from recruiting directly again. It was never the only route into the job. Ideally, yes with a proper staff management strategy (which we don't have) this would have been the ideal way to operate.

Also, for your information (so you have an accurate understanding of course) part of the external recruitment which was agreed and then reneged on included the provision for the first 10 Esc's to be part of the 2nd FF recruit class in 2016.

To say that the ESC's have been abandoned is complete misinformation and nonsense.

Paulzx

SAFO wrote: »

These people have helped prevent the control room from being civilianised by taking up these positions and all for a basic pay of little more than the minimum wage, but most of you have turned your back on them.

To be fair DCC planned to fully civilianise these jobs. Only for the unions managing to negotiate the deal to bring in the ESC's and maintain their connection to the brigade as uniformed members of DFB they would be sitting in the ERCC as civilians for ever more i.e. no progression to Firefighter.

So I think you've got it arse about face

SAFO

Paulzx wrote: »

To be fair DCC planned to fully civilianise these jobs. Only for the unions managing to negotiate the deal to bring in the ESC's and maintain their connection to the brigade as uniformed members of DFB they would be sitting in the ERCC as civilians for ever more i.e. no progression to Firefighter.

So I think you've got it arse about face

I must have touched a nerve here. First of all I have a lot of friends and acquaintances in the DFB who I have the utmost respect for. They are the type of ordinary people who go in and do their jobs diligently and respectfully. So I have no axe to grind with DFB and have nothing but admiration for that organisation. So I have had my finger on the pulse of the DFB for far longer then you I suspect have been in the job so don't accuse me of submitting ignorance posts.


The ESCOs have 3 year contracts that is correct but it was always on the understanding that they would be next to be trained. Your senior managers told them that when then they passed out in the OBI. Nobody expected them to complete the 3 years. Nobody. When the section committee was asked to support the ESCOs they were told to F.O. or words to that effect.

When the ESCO positions were first advertised it was deemed to be only way into the DFB going forward because if it hadn't been, not one of the current ESCOs would have taken up the positions, in my humble opinion. So they would not have been sitting there forever as ESCOs. Oh and the reason I know so much about the ESCOs is because I know two of them quite well. Would that be informed enough to have an opinion?

You know what, you are right I do have an axe to grind. I hate seeing people being treated unfairly.

So to summarise for you: I have the height of respect for DFB. By and large the men/women of DFB do an outstanding job for the citizens of this city and county but I think this time you have got it wrong by disregarding the ESCOs. Try walking in their shoes.

You will have noticed I did not insult you in responding to your post.

Paulzx

I'm glad you have your "finger on the pulse" and reckon you have extensive insider knowledge of DFB. That doesn't make it accurate. I have no idea why you have made a dig at my perceived length of service which cannot be apparent from any of my posts. My length of service is irrellevant to this debate. I am not however wet behind the ears.

The facts are simple despite what people think they may or may not have been told at a passing out. Funnily enough nice words from a manager at a passout does not constitute part of your terms and conditions.

Facts:

Esc's were employed to a uniform position in DFB in the ERCC.

ESC's were to train as FF's after 3 years

The position of ESC was never the only route into DFB ( i know this as i asked the exact same question before we ever agreed to the deal in the first place)

No ESC is more than 3 years in the job.

The ESC's you know who claim to have said they would never have joined if they thought other recruits would be taken on would now have no chance of joining DFB as it seems internal comps are the only route in. They are in a much better position than any guy on the street who wishes to join DFB. They should think about this. Sometimes people can't see the wood for the trees

How exactly do you think they are being treated unfairly? Just because someone whinges doesn't mean they have a valid whinge.

The section that told them to F.O are the people who ensured that there was even a position there for them to take up in the first place

Disclaimer:

You will also notice I have not insulted you in my post

SAFO

Paulzx wrote: »

I'm glad you have your "finger on the pulse" and reckon you have extensive insider knowledge of DFB. That doesn't make it accurate. I have no idea why you have made a dig at my perceived length of service which cannot be apparent from any of my posts. My length of service is irrellevant to this debate. I am not however wet behind the ears.

The facts are simple despite what people think they may or may not have been told at a passing out. Funnily enough nice words from a manager at a passout does not constitute part of your terms and conditions.

Facts:

Esc's were employed to a uniform position in DFB in the ERCC.

ESC's were to train as FF's after 3 years

The position of ESC was never the only route into DFB ( i know this as i asked the exact same question before we ever agreed to the deal in the first place)

No ESC is more than 3 years in the job.

The ESC's you know who claim to have said they would never have joined if they thought other recruits would be taken on would now have no chance of joining DFB as it seems internal comps are the only route in. They are in a much better position than any guy on the street who wishes to join DFB. They should think about this. Sometimes people can't see the wood for the trees

How exactly do you think they are being treated unfairly? Just because someone whinges doesn't mean they have a valid whinge.

The section that told them to F.O are the people who ensured that there was even a position there for them to take up in the first place

Disclaimer:

You will also notice I have not insulted you in my post

Let me make one thing quite clear to you. I did not , and had no need to, make a dig at your length of service, I was actually referring to myself and not you. If you thought I offended you then I apologise.

Anyway, when your rep told you that the ESCO was not only route into the job naturally you believed him. I was told the opposite by friends of mine. The ESCO was the only route in they said. I have learned over the years, sometimes the hard way, that a lot of union reps are only in it for themselves. They generally will sell a deal whatever way they can.

The lads I know are not whinging, they are disappointed at both what is happening to them and the disregard the union has for them.

If 66 firefighters are recruited from where ever, what happens to the ESCOs? Some have 18 months done, some have 12 and before the first class actually happens it will be 24 and 18 respectively. So before they know it 3 years will be done. There might not be a need for any more firefighters then because as you have rightly said the city manager appears to have a plan to decimate the DFB maybe even down to purely to purely firefighting duties.

So the ESCOs have completed 3 years in the control room but there is no need to train them as there are too many firefighters in the Brigade What do they do then? Stay in the control room?

As regards to the senior management making statements in a public arena, I cannot be certain, but I would imagine that a court would take a different view to you.

For the record a lot of your own colleagues have advised them not to accept this and take legal advice. They would rather not do that for obvious reasons.

When these people took these jobs most of them were of the opinion that they would never have to do 3 years because of the shortage of firefighters and like i said that the ESCO was apparently the only way in to DFB.

Again try walking in their shoes and imagine how you would feel if it was happening to you.

Actually I am the one whinging because I hate when people are treated unfairly no matter who they are.

Paulzx

SAFO wrote: »

Let me make one thing quite clear to you. I did not , and had no need to, make a dig at your length of service, I was actually referring to myself and not you. If you thought I offended you then I apologise.

Anyway, when your rep told you that the ESCO was not only route into the job naturally you believed him. I was told the opposite by friends of mine. The ESCO was the only route in they said. I have learned over the years, sometimes the hard way, that a lot of union reps are only in it for themselves. They generally will sell a deal whatever way they can.

The lads I know are not whinging, they are disappointed at both what is happening to them and the disregard the union has for them.

If 66 firefighters are recruited from where ever, what happens to the ESCOs? Some have 18 months done, some have 12 and before the first class actually happens it will be 24 and 18 respectively. So before they know it 3 years will be done. There might not be a need for any more firefighters then because as you have rightly said the city manager appears to have a plan to decimate the DFB maybe even down to purely to purely firefighting duties.

So the ESCOs have completed 3 years in the control room but there is no need to train them as there are too many firefighters in the Brigade What do they do then? Stay in the control room?

As regards to the senior management making statements in a public arena, I cannot be certain, but I would imagine that a court would take a different view to you.

For the record a lot of your own colleagues have advised them not to accept this and take legal advice. They would rather not do that for obvious reasons.

When these people took these jobs most of them were of the opinion that they would never have to do 3 years because of the shortage of firefighters and like i said that the ESCO was apparently the only way in to DFB.

Again try walking in their shoes and imagine how you would feel if it was happening to you.

Actually I am the one whinging because I hate when people are treated unfairly no matter who they are.

I wasn't told by my rep that this was the only way in. It was a question that was answered at a public, minuted meeting. I am not and have never been a union rep but still find it offensive that you constantly insult our section committee who quite frankly have done a fantastic job in holding back the tide over the last few tough years.

I'll repeat again..........the facts are that no ESC has at present had anything done that is against the contract they signed up to. In 2 or 3 years that could be different....but that's in the future and we need to deal with the facts as they stand.

In your previous post you use the words " apparently", "of the opinion" along with many ifs, buts and maybes. At present these are irrelevant. They are not facts.

I personally believe that the ESC's are uniformed members of DFB doing a slightly different but just as important job as any other member of the organisation. They deserve to be trained as FF's within the time period that was originally laid down and before that should treated as the valued members of the organisation that they are.

What they don't deserve is to feel hard done by when in fact their terms and conditions have yet to be broken or altered.

I'd much rather be in their position than someone outside hoping that there will be an external recruitment.

Paulzx

SAFO wrote: »

Actually I am the one whinging because I hate when people are treated unfairly no matter who they are.

So by coming into work to do the job they were recruited and trained for they are being treated unfairly?


I disagree

SAFO

You just don't get it do you? You really just don't get it.

If the ESCOs are expected to fulfill this 3 year contract: why did DFB management make them undergo the firefighter fitness tests in the OBI prior to taking up the positions instead of waiting until the 3 years were up?

The logical answer to that question is that they were never expected to complete the 3 years as ESCOs.

And yes you are correct they have contracts that specify 3 years in the control room but, contracts and agreements are drawn up with a specific spirit attached to them.

You may have attended a minuted meeting and been told otherwise but there are an awful lot of officers and firefighters who did and continue to see it differently to you.

I have never once said that the ESCOs are being treated unfairly on their shift duties, as a matter of fact they are being treated extremely well and inclusively by the officers and firefighters in Townsend Street. They have absolutely no complaints whatsoever.

It baffles me why you are so against the ESCOs becoming firefighters earlier than 3 years. Have they not gone through the same process as you? What difference does it make to you or anybody else when they become firefighters?

As for the section committee I have never insulted them, I just repeated their response to the ESCOs. Actually to be fair two lads supported them.

For the record: I have never insulted you or Dublin Fire Brigade but for your part your responses have contained accusations and insults aimed towards me. You also accused the ESCOs of whinging.

I won't be responding to any more of your posts because I believe it is pointless. So you can continue to insult me or whatever but for my part I have no further interest in engaging with you.

Best of luck in your career and stay safe.

reddington

Thanks be to God ,,,,! You pair are doing my head in your like two children going back and forth this is a place for constructive information and supporting each other at the end of the day we all need to stand shoulder to shoulder , all services no matter what position we hold , it's bad enough management tearing you all apart but let's not start falling out with each other because at the moment thats all you have and you must never lose sight of that , I am over 21 years trying to become a member of DFB and this was my last oppertuinty and I have just watched it disappear I am gutted but there is Notting I can do , at least you two are in a service , and as for the controllers they can apply internally and I am sure will do very well either way , now call a truces and let's get back to helping the people who need it , its guys like you two that gives the rest of us hope in trying to achieve are goals and get into a service and I am sure that I speak for everyone here like me when I say we all appreciate your help cheers guys .

thatboy

I agree with Reddington. I think the ESCO's are in a strong position here. Paulzx do you see any possibility of it being advertised externally?