N5 - Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge [underway]

Pete_Cavan

I checked details of the proposed public and was horrified to find this;

https://www.roscommoncoco.ie/en/about_us/part-8-local-authority-own-developments/community-enterprise/part-8-strokestown-public-realm-enhancement-project/

The plan is essentially to turn the town from the informal car park it is now to a more formalised car park. No significant usable public space, "Exposed Aggregate concrete" footpaths, cyclists to use footpaths - an enormous missed opportunity given the space available.

What is the point of providing loads of parking spaces when they are worried nobody will visit the town? They certainly aren't giving people a reason to visit with this. I assume it is the locals limiting ambition here as Ros CoCo have impressive proposals elsewhere.

markpb

Wow, that’s pretty depressing stuff! On the second widest street in Ireland (their claim), pedestrians gain 60cm (only on one side) but now have to share the footpath with cyclists. Clearly there’s not enough space to split them and produce a safer and more pleasant route for both.

Why is that? Because the road will still be 6.5m wide. In their own words, “operation of the road will remain as per the current usage”. DMURS says that local streets (which this should be when the bypass opens) should be 5 to 5.5m wide. 6.5m wide roads are for heavily trafficked routes.

The trees will be retained unless they get in the way of parking - they’ll be nuked for that crime.

The roundabout will be improved but not removed. Can’t get in the way of keeping traffic flowing.

Theres no mention of continuous footpaths at side road crossings, just “ramped uncontrolled crossing” although I may be mistaken on that one.

The only positive improvement I can see is the addition of some zebra crossings but on road that is 6.5m wide, I suspect they won’t be used by the very young, very old or vulnerable pedestrians.

The design brief for this was clearly along the lines of: tidy the town up, don’t make it any harder for people to drive or park and do the bare minimum to tick the ‘active travel’ box so we might get some NTA funding.

Mullinabreena

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122123102#Comment_122123102

It didn't die but it's in a coma on life support.

paulbok

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141152#Comment_122141152

The locals were up for the redevelopment initially, but ended up mostly against the finished design for a couple of main reasons.

The parking spaces that would be lost were right around the centre of the town, where they are most useful for the shops. More spots lost up where parents drop off/ collect kids from the schools as well. Ros CoCo indicated off street parking could be developed in the future, but there is not really anywhere suitable in the centre of the town. Also, why not make it part of the development now, would go a long way to allaying fears over it never getting done even if a magical space appeared for it.

Some small grass areas and planters are to be installed on some of those parking spots, and the local tidy town committee weren't too happy to find out they would be responsible for maintaining them without any prior consultation.

Parking was to be removed off one side of Elphin St /R368 altogether, with a cycle path going in instead to connect the town out to the new main roundabout to the N4. This would have been the biggest disaster of all, restricting parking near the local church and funeral home. Plenty of people living on that street too, and no plans provided as to where they could park. This part of the scheme I believe has now been dropped or scaled back and the parking remains.

About the only proposal that everyone does agree on is the relocation of the bus stops from where they are on Bridge St, as you come off the roundabout heading to Dublin, up onto Church St where the width of that street is far more suitable and safe. The town has looked for the stops to be moved for years. I'd wager anyone on the May to Dublin weekly commute has been held up by a bus here a few time a year.

The other end of the wide streets to the gates of Strokestown Park House is also to have the parking broken up, making what is a defacto plaza for events in the town, e.g Xmas market, Easter parade review stand, difficult to host in the future.

The development proposal just comes across as a box ticking exercise to say money was spent on the town after bypassing, rather than making any meaningful impact to attracting new businesses to the town.

Ros Co.co haven't a great track record in this area lately, looking at the mess they made of the Square in Roscommon Town, the second attempt in five years at maximising that space, just finished, hasn't won many hearts over either from what I gather.

Any plans for the major redevelopment of the public spaces of any town is always going to have pro's and cons, but there were far too many issues with it for the majority of the town locals to get behind it, especially when the CoCo wouldn't engage in a meaningful way with them to find some compromises.

Pete_Cavan

So on the second widest street in the country in a town with a population of less than 1,000 people, there is nowhere suitable for removing parking spaces. There is no need to have three rows of perpendicular parking and two parallel roads, in addition to the main road.

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147118#Comment_122147118

You could park at least 3 cars deep between the road and the footpath down Church St and Bawn St

paulbok

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147278#Comment_122147278

You could but the two nearest the path would never get out. There's just enough space to park one car out to the road edge and another to the path, leaving just enough of a gap between to move in and out of those spaces.

The problem with the spaces being removed is that they are mainly those nearest the existing shops.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147950#Comment_122147950

There are many towns out there with less on street car parking and yet the shops are busier than those in strokestown. Car parking is not all it's cracked up to be - making streets a desirable destination is more important

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147950#Comment_122147950

Think he is being facetious to make a point. For such a wide street there should be plenty of room for cycle lanes, footpaths, green areas and parking. Such a large investment could transform the town but not if they go with the current plan. When I posted the original link I presumed the standard would match that of other public realms around the country.

Act Fast

This gives a feel for the background https://roscommonpeople.ie/controversial-strokestown-streetscape-plan-gets-green-light-with-e7-9m-awarded/

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147950#Comment_122147950

Are we still talking about the same town? Nowhere in Strokestown is far from the shops, certainly not any of the proposed parking spaces. It’s about a 10 minute walk from one end of the town to the other.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149410#Comment_122149410

Yes but us Irish people like to almost back the car into the door of the shop if we could. I see it every time I go to Tesco with abled bodied people parked along the front of the building and in disabled spaces even though there are standard spaces available a further 20m away.

Pete_Cavan

€8m to mark out parking spaces, waste of money. No doubt the new N5 will be blamed when all their lovely parking spaces remain empty and "them up in Dublin" won't have done enough for the town, despite the locals pissing away the significant funding which has been given to them.

paulbok

Its not the locals spending or pissing away the money.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150747#Comment_122150747

Well they have decided that the money should be spent on, well, I'm not even sure what the money is being spent on or what the town is to gain. The place was an ocean of tarmac before and will continue to be after.

selectamatic

These redevelopment plans are pushed through at co council level with pressure from government. Funding was secured and will be spent.

It's window dressing plain and simple.

It'll look nice but it'll make no discernable difference to the economic prospects of these towns.

Ballaghaderreen and to a lesser extent strokestown are two prime examples of market towns that were once the economic hubs of a pretty large area. Now that these days are gone they're in a state of comatose. Not enough employment to retain a skilled population and not enough economic opportunities to attract private investment towards the hospitality sector.

Cycle lanes and pedestrian streets/infrastructure won't fix these issues.

Strokestown could make some bit of a go from a tourism perspective with strokestown house but many more picturesque and well known coastal towns are currently struggling so realistically the outlook for lesser known inland towns is pretty bleak in this regard too.

In the context of bypasses; the bypass didn't harm Ballaghaderreen it was already fatally wounded. A market town with no market.

In short I can't see it mattering a whole pile whether strokestown keeps too much parking or goes too far down the pedestrian route after the redevelopment it'll still be what it is today.

https://mariawalsh.eu/over-e11-2m-for-regeneration-projects-across-midlands-north-west-will-have-a-positive-impact-on-local-towns-and-villages-mep-maria-walsh/

KrisW1001

With the traffic gone, these towns at least have a chance to reinvent themselves as local centres, to serve the people from the surrounding countryside. It will be up to the people living there to decide whether they want this or not.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151957#Comment_122151957

Strokestown has an extremely wide main street, it has scope to provide parking and also usable and enjoyable space for people. The Part 8 has 3m paths on each side a 33m wide tarmaced area between. That's wider than the N7 Naas bypass and M4 west of Lucan (and that even has more greenery!), some of the busiest roads in the country. Many sections of the M50, M1 approaching the airport, etc. are only wider because they have a wide central median with hedging and scrubs. If you calculated the square metres of tarmac proposed for Strokestown between the existing roundabout and the crossroads 250m west, you'd likely have as much if not more tarmac than the vast majority of 250m sections of our motorway network.

It is not going to be a pleasant environment and not a place people will want to spend time. Any visitor to Strokestown Park House is unlikely to explore the town further as there is nothing for them there. Basically the town is foregoing any spin off benefit to it from its biggest asset.

The approved plan is an enormous disappointment compared to what was originally proposed. Some scaling back from initial plans is to be expected but to go from this to full car park is crazy. Given the space available, there is certainly scope to provide ample parking while also creating nice spaces for people (and it is people who spend money, not cars).

Image taken from this article.

It will be an interesting experiment, Strokestown will surely have the highest proportion of parking space per resident. By some peoples logic, it should thrive as any suggestion of removing parking spaces is met with claims that it will destroy businesses. The abundance of parking spaces will either lead to increased economic activity, and if not, why provide so much parking? Hopefully some case studies can be done comparing the impact this project has on Strokestown compared to the impact Ballaghaderreen Town Public Realm Enhancement Project will have there considering it will reduce parking and create a pedestrian-friendly environment at Market Square (and for half the price of Stroketown).

selectamatic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122152885#Comment_122152885

Oh I know all about strokestown and I'm not disagreeing with you really. There was plenty of scope to leave plenty of parking yet have the wide part of the town look more aesthetically pleasing than perhaps will come to fruition with the current plan.

The Ballaghaderreen plan is far too light on parking imo. Particularly in consideration of the bank of Ireland and the main ATM.

Either way though without employment in both areas I can't see the projects making much difference to Strokestown or Ballaghaderreen.

The unemployment figures for the area's are very grim last time I read about them and things certainly aren't improving in this key facet of what makes a thriving urban centre.

Westernview

Is all that funding going to just paving and car parking and scaled back green areas? Killala's town first plan for example is about spending money on the public realm too but its only a small component of an overall plan. Remote work hubs, new architecturally designed social housing, preservation and interpretation of historic buildings, strategies and incentives to attract people into the area are just some of the things planned on a phased basis. Throwing large amounts of money on streetscapes alone is squandering resources and won't progress the town at all.

paulbok

Getting back on topic, though still in the same area, the stripping of topsoil for the new roundabout and link road into Strokestown has started. I'd be expecting that new link road to be completed quickly enough to reroute the L1405 Kilmore road to allow the mainline to cut through the existing road.

hondar

Back on topic, few photos of progress.

DumbBrunette

Thread title definitely needs to be updated!

spacetweek

Updated.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122179297#Comment_122179297

What a lovely sight.

DumbBrunette

The earthworks are starting to show up on satellite photography now. Most of the work so far appears to be around Frenchpark and a bit north of Strokestown too.

mayo.mick

Contractor invests in major equipment for Roscommon road project

https://roscommonherald.ie/news/contractor-invests-in-major-equipment-for-roscommon-road-project_arid-18972.html

DumbBrunette

https://www.roscommonherald.ie/news/green-light-for-signal-controlled-junction-in-county-roscommon-village_arid-19486.html

https://roscommonherald.ie/news/new-junction-and-footpath-layouts-causing-problems-for-motorists_arid-19641.html

The 'first signal controlled junction in Co Roscommon' opens in Frenchpark. Surely that can't be true??

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228239#Comment_122228239

Checking the obvious places - it might be.

Roscommon Town is all roundabouts and zebra crossings. None in the Roscommon side of Carrick On Shannon or Athlone, doesn't seem to be any in Boyle. Very roundabout driven county it seems!

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228239#Comment_122228239

In some towns I've seen plans for replacing some roundabouts with signal controlled junctions as part of active travel works. I'm not sure what the design reasons are behind it. I think its something to do with accommodating segregated cycle lanes with traffic.

DumbBrunette

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228257#Comment_122228257

You learn something new every day!

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228239#Comment_122228239

There is one on the Roscommon side of Athlone town. Although, Athlone is really county Westmeath, let's be honest 😅

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229739#Comment_122229739

Most of the Roscommon side of Athlone Town is still in Westmeath, its only when you get to Monksland that its Roscommon. Shannon has not been the boundary for a long time.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228239#Comment_122228239

looks like another case of lads in offices with no experience of driving lorries designing junctions.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122229779#Comment_122229779

Okay cool thanks. I assumed it was the Shannon as boundary. Didn't realize the recent discussions, on moving the boundary, only referred to the Monkstown area.

veryangryman

MonksLAND! Us Athlonians can only dream of affording to breathe the air of Monkstown

DumbBrunette

https://roscommonherald.ie/news/council-says-strokestowns-public-realm-project-is-a-once-in-lifetime-opportunity-for-town_arid-19783.html

People are still protesting even though the original proposals have been watered down and the new plan includes 270 parking spaces. That's 30% of the population of the town!

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122244440#Comment_122244440

Only a banana could look at the plans and worry that there’s not enough parking.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122244440#Comment_122244440

FFS. If they water it down any more they should forget about doing anything there. It's just going to be a huge waste of money.

It's incredible how car obsessed we are as a society, to such a degree that we reject proposals to improve our public spaces.

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122247338#Comment_122247338

Go back to Texas.

Everybody pays for car infrastructure including the carless. Pedestrian infra costs virtually nothing.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248348#Comment_122248348

Even in Texas they're pushing for densification, carpooling, road tolling and other measures to reduce car traffic. There's really no place left on earth where people think more roads are the answer.

It's time we gave up on the delusion that everyone should be able to travel from their own driveway to a parking space right outside the front door of their destination, no matter where that happens to be.

Our most depressing rural towns are so crap because their main streets are just long carparks.. the space taken up with cars means there's zero incentive to walk around, so people just drive right up to the place they need to go, then drive away again, and the vicious cycle continues..

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248520#Comment_122248520

The parking outside the door thing is a big bugbear of mine and I think it's behind a lot of these protests. A lot of people get upset if they have to walk an extra 20 yards to a shop and then the business owners fear that the customer will go elsewhere. Pure lazy entitlement. Disabled drivers are obviously a separate case.

elchupanebrey

See it all the time, people drive from Dunnes to Tesco where i live, despite the fact the carparks are separated by a kerb only and walking would be quicker

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122250003#Comment_122250003

Plenty of shopping centre carparks clamp you if you leave the centre; so sometimes this is required to avoid that. If I wasn't willing to risk it for a few minutes at a retail park with multiple different clamping enforcements yesterday I would have needed to park up three times with short drives between.

(Not going to reply to any replies about 'maybe some people don't need the car at all', I already know that and you're wasting your own time)

DumbBrunette

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122250003#Comment_122250003

Castlebar? I've seen the same there.

Pete_Cavan

As the RosCoCo statement in the above article points out, there isn't a set number of parking spaces in Strokestown, so claims that parking is being reduced is complete nonsense. At present, large vehicles parking parallel to the road take up a significant number of parking spaces, as seen here. Most of the "destinations" in the town already have car parks which would be unaffected by the proposals (SPH, Supervalu, the schools, Primary Care Centre, the playground/preschool, Percy French hotel).

What do these protesters even want? Widest street in the country and getting almost €8m to do it up but they want the place kept as an ocean of tarmac.

Jayuu

At this point they should cancel the whole project and spend the money in a community that might welcome an improvement to the public realm. Of course if they did that we'd never hear the end of how "rural Ireland" is being ignored. Sometimes you just can't win.

Anyway even though I don't travel the M5 that often I will look forward to the bypass being built so I never have to worry about Strokestown again.

user1842

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260335#Comment_122260335

I wish it was the M5 :)

Reuben1210

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248348#Comment_122248348

I think by 'virtually' you really mean 'relatively'

Jayuu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264332#Comment_122264332

Oops! 😀