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Luas for Galway

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Nobody knows exactly how much it is going to cost till it is put out to tender (if it ever reaches that point) but the figure in the local media for current proposed route is €500,000,000.00


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭Padkir


    Sigh, if you are going to use a figure as a basis for your argument, please *try* to quote the correct one or risk looking ridiculous by inflating the actual figure by 50%
    Nobody knows exactly how much it is going to cost till it is put out to tender (if it ever reaches that point) but the figure in the local media for current proposed route is €500,000,000.00

    Or add two decimal places to make the figure look bigger on first glance...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Padkir wrote: »
    Or add two decimal places to make the figure look bigger on first glance...
    arguing over cents now! ha ha :D


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Apologies if this should've been in a new thread.

    http://connachttribune.ie/gluas-campaigners-claim-light-rail-cheaper-than-bus-network-304/

    New report claims light rail would be cheaper than buses for Galway. The NTA have said earlier in the year that a light rail system is not the optimal solution for Galway


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭markpb


    marno21 wrote: »
    Apologies if this should've been in a new thread.

    http://connachttribune.ie/gluas-campaigners-claim-light-rail-cheaper-than-bus-network-304/

    New report claims light rail would be cheaper than buses for Galway. The NTA have said earlier in the year that a light rail system is not the optimal solution for Galway

    I'd love to see light rail being developed in other cities but that article looks like rubbish. They appear to be comparing the cost of a single tram line with the cost of a general city-wide bus upgrade. One may be cheaper than the other but it's hardly relevant if it serves less people.

    They also say that the tram line could be built quickly compared to the amount of time spent taking about the bus network but that's more apple and orange comparison.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,560 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    markpb wrote: »
    They appear to be comparing the cost of a single tram line with the cost of a general city-wide bus upgrade. One may be cheaper than the other but it's hardly relevant if it serves less people.
    provision of 21km of light rail for the city at €282m while developing and extending 14km of bus routes along with upgrading and increasing the fleet would cost in the region of €300 million.

    It might just be badly worded, but the article states that 21km of light rail can be build for €282 million.

    But "extending 14km of bus routes along with upgrading and increasing the fleet would cost in the region of €300 million"

    Does the €282 million for the light rail just the physical track, or does it include the actual trams, the figures for the Bus network specifically state that it includes route and vehicles.

    Also, it says "extending 14km of bus routes". Does this mean 14km in addition to the existing network of bus routes, so what is the total eventual lenght of the new expanded bus network.

    very misleading article


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭vmb


    Galway population, 79.934

    Is this a joke?


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    vmb wrote: »
    Galway population, 79.934

    Is this a joke?

    it's a very very serious proposal and has been around for a long time in various forms. i can't see it happening any time soon but certainly for the long term it shouldn't be dismissed outright if we are to make our other cities more attractive and desirable places to live.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭vmb


    In other countries a town with such a small population wouldn't be considered a city. I agree that providing good public transport infrastructure is a must, but investment needs to be prioritised, and the country capital has a massive lack of infrastructure.

    Places with population of 20k people do not have police station...


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    vmb wrote: »
    In other countries a town with such a small population wouldn't be considered a city. I agree that providing good public transport infrastructure is a must, but investment needs to be prioritised, and the country capital has a massive lack of infrastructure.

    Places with population of 20k people do not have police station...

    Where for instance?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    vmb wrote: »
    In other countries a town with such a small population wouldn't be considered a city.

    that may be, but this is ireland and a couple of what would be considered large towns elsewhere, are considered cities here. we are where we are with that one. it also means there is more of an obligation on government to develop these places long term to make them the hubs of their respective area.
    vmb wrote: »
    I agree that providing good public transport infrastructure is a must, but investment needs to be prioritised, and the country capital has a massive lack of infrastructure.

    agreed but realistically dublin's current issues aren't really relevant to something that if it is even implemented in the first place, is decades away.

    vmb wrote: »
    Places with population of 20k people do not have police station...

    and i suspect that will remain to be the case unfortunately. i'd suggest it may be a separate issue that actually needs resolving before any transport infrastructure issues are dealt with anywhere.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    it's a very very serious proposal and has been around for a long time in various forms. i can't see it happening any time soon but certainly for the long term it shouldn't be dismissed outright if we are to make our other cities more attractive and desirable places to live.

    It's complete pie in the sky nonsense being peddled by the usual cohort of individuals who think the train is a panacea for all the issues faced in the west of Ireland.

    Where is this light rail system going to go in Galway? The city centre is small and has very little in it to attract large volumes of passengers, and the main employment zones are scattered around the city to make them easily accessible by car. Most people employed in the city either live in the countryside outside the city or in satellite towns such as Tuam

    If we want to make Galway more attractive here are a few ideas to be implemented before spending large volumes of money on a white elephant project.

    1. Significantly more density within a defined Galway city area
    2. Significantly more bus services, with better journey times, improved frequency and improved access.
    3. Discouraging one off housing in areas around Galway and even in neighbouring counties (South Mayo, SE Roscommon, north/west Clare)

    A light rail system for Galway raises more questions than answers.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    marno21 wrote: »
    It's complete pie in the sky nonsense being peddled by the usual cohort of individuals who think the train is a panacea for all the issues faced in the west of Ireland.

    Where is this light rail system going to go in Galway? The city centre is small and has very little in it to attract large volumes of passengers, and the main employment zones are scattered around the city to make them easily accessible by car. Most people employed in the city either live in the countryside outside the city or in satellite towns such as Tuam

    If we want to make Galway more attractive here are a few ideas to be implemented before spending large volumes of money on a white elephant project.

    1. Significantly more density within a defined Galway city area
    2. Significantly more bus services, with better journey times, improved frequency and improved access.
    3. Discouraging one off housing in areas around Galway and even in neighbouring counties (South Mayo, SE Roscommon, north/west Clare)

    A light rail system for Galway raises more questions than answers.

    Dart was a “white elephant project“, and Luas was implied to be the same. When you view something as a white elephant, it’s natural that everything that follows seems like it raises more questions than answers.

    Your views are understandable given where you think workers live, but with Galway city and suburbs the CSO states: “Of the 32,084 workers enumerated in this area, 4,715 worked outside the area. The daytime working population (resident and non-resident) of this area was 41,402 with professional services being the largest industry.“

    So, that’s 27,369 who live and work in the city vs 14,033 who commute into the city — twice as many do the former. I thought it would be worse myself.

    Galway city centre might not be the main work place but it is a trip generator in its own right both by day and night.

    The thing is, if you’re really going for significantly more density, there’s little issues with making a tram viable.

    As for possible routes — Galway’s east-west spread means a route going east-west can hit a lot of residential, workplaces and other trip generators. But no one line in any city will cover everything.

    An example route could include Western Distributor Road, UHG, NUI, Dyke Rd serving the city centre (directly via Eyre Square and the bus/train or off set), Mervue BP, Ballybrit BP, Ballybrit, Parkmore BP.

    The thing is there’s parts of that route which are difficult and nobody is doing it for buses, not even for BRT-lite.

    And as for “panacea for all the issues faced in the west of Ireland” — no, there’s a huge difference between planning a light rail line hitting a huge amount of trip generators in a city where you want densification and planning a heavy rail route along an old rural light rail route vie small towns and villages and no likelihood of densification around many stops.


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭vmb


    Dublin population taxes support the whole country infrastructure, it is unethical to keep it abandoned.

    Solidarity is a must, but the whole country won't progress if its capital is stuck in the most dreadful mediocrity.

    In our latest community meetup in Clongriffin, where I live, we were told that there is not money for NOTHING. The police station is a completely non-sense because the closest station is the Coolock station, that is more than 3 km away (that means about 30 min when traffic is bad, as usual)

    Of course, this thread is not about those problems, but what I am saying is that it is crazy to consider these kind of investments and left other vital projects behind.

    It is very sad, when I travel, I can see how other cities are functional, how they have proper transport networks, but here, I really do not know where all of our massive taxes are being spent.

    I agree about paying thousands of euro per month in taxes, but at least I'd like to see how they are properly spent. A Luas in a 79k population is not what Ireland needs. It'd be nice, of course, but there are hundreds of more important projects to achieve before that.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    vmb wrote: »
    Dublin population taxes support the whole country infrastructure, it is unethical to keep it abandoned.

    Solidarity is a must, but the whole country won't progress if its capital is stuck in the most dreadful mediocrity.

    In our latest community meetup in Clongriffin, where I live, we were told that there is not money for NOTHING. The police station is a completely non-sense because the closest station is the Coolock station, that is more than 3 km away (that means about 30 min when traffic is bad, as usual)

    Of course, this thread is not about those problems, but what I am saying is that it is crazy to consider these kind of investments and left other vital projects behind.

    It is very sad, when I travel, I can see how other cities are functional, how they have proper transport networks, but here, I really do not know where all of our massive taxes are being spent.

    I agree about paying thousands of euro per month in taxes, but at least I'd like to see how they are properly spent. A Luas in a 79k population is not what Ireland needs. It'd be nice, of course, but there are hundreds of more important projects to achieve before that.

    A few points on that:

    Dublin and other cities subsidise the rest of the country, Dublin alone does not.

    Clongriffin is still under half developed and does not yet have the population for a new Garda station when Coolock is so close.

    Clongriffin to Coolock Garda station is actually around 4.5km away, depending on route. Google says that's between 9-20 mins driving, 19-20 mins on the bus, or just 12 mins cycling, again depending on route.

    If it was up to 30mins for 3km, I would be more worried. But Google Maps -- which is usually reliable -- shows that it is up to 20mins for 4.5km is to be expected in a car-clogged part of the city. I checked at different times and at worst it only goes up to 22mins at the peak am rush hour.

    The pace of development in Clongriffin is a victim of the crash. It's unfortunate, but between existing rail services and planned bus services with Bus Connects, Clongriffin will have better transport links than most edge-of-city locations.

    Trying to suggest short to mid term issues in Clongriffin is a good reason not to invest in a growing Galway to make it more sustainable and liveable place where life and business function better makes zero sense. And in terms of how taxes are spent it makes even less sense -- a Galway focused on deification and sustainable transport is going to cost a lot less than a Galway with more and more people commuting from all around Galway county and the neighbouring counties.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    vmb wrote: »
    Dublin population taxes support the whole country infrastructure, it is unethical to keep it abandoned.

    Solidarity is a must, but the whole country won't progress if its capital is stuck in the most dreadful mediocrity.

    In our latest community meetup in Clongriffin, where I live, we were told that there is not money for NOTHING. The police station is a completely non-sense because the closest station is the Coolock station, that is more than 3 km away (that means about 30 min when traffic is bad, as usual)

    Of course, this thread is not about those problems, but what I am saying is that it is crazy to consider these kind of investments and left other vital projects behind.

    It is very sad, when I travel, I can see how other cities are functional, how they have proper transport networks, but here, I really do not know where all of our massive taxes are being spent.

    I agree about paying thousands of euro per month in taxes, but at least I'd like to see how they are properly spent. A Luas in a 79k population is not what Ireland needs. It'd be nice, of course, but there are hundreds of more important projects to achieve before that.

    The consensus thinking is that there should be just enough investment in public transport to skim the worst off of car traffic, and not a cent more. Otherwise, farmers looking to sell sites out of town for development will be inconvenienced. Everything else follows from that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Yougov.ie2000


    The Reign wrote: »
    Hello ,

    In regard of the Trams in Galway and if it ever becomes a possibility , most people I have spoken to over the past couple of months have all signalled that the SUIG system looks the and is best explained I had taken a look myself and it does seem very comprehensive and applied by a guy from Galway actually who is qualified in PLanning according to the papers

    ...... The guy put up a youtube video and loads of ebooks , this guy definitely has my vote ...

    My mother is from Germany and the presentation looks very much like it does there , those systems are usually very good with layout .

    Here the links my friend received from his mailshot sometime ago ...

    Go to youtube and type

    "Solas Uirbeach Iarnrod na Gaillimhe " then click the link option 2 , I see there is also one for Limerick and Shannon aswell... interesting



    ____________________________________________________________________________
    I think you are right ...it is far clearer to see where such a system would serve


This discussion has been closed.
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