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Luas for Galway

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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Victor wrote: »
    Why can't buses be given 'viable dedicated routes'?

    Because the grid of roads and streets west of the city centre and east of Threadneedle Rd / Bishop O'Donnell Rd is too restrictive to provide a dedicated, fast and reliable east-west route.

    The route via NUIG etc for Luas would be far less attractive for BRT / buses because of noise, pollution, tight fits, and gradients of the bridge. Selling demolition for buses would also be a lot harder than the same for LRT.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    UKTram Report: Investigation into the Economic Impacts on Cities of Investment in Light Rail Systems

    Report commissioned by UKTram, published June 2014

    "Major cities in the United Kingdom have created effective post-industrial economies, which lead their regional economies. However, most of the UK’s larger city regions remain less competitive than key comparator locations in Europe and beyond (Docherty et al. 2009). Transport plays a critical role in facilitating this competitiveness. High quality transport services and infrastructure improves labour market performance, helps attract inward investment and helps to create an improved quality of life. This report summarises independent, peer-reviewed, and other evidence from the UK, mainland Europe, North America and elsewhere and shows that investment in light rail systems can have positive economic impacts on cities. However, light rail investment alone is unlikely to be a sufficient catalyst for economic change without other supportive policies."

    The report by Professor Richard Knowles and Dr Fiona Ferbrache can be downloaded here: http://www.railforthevalley.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/LR-UK-LightRailReport-An-investigation-into-the-economic-impacts-on-cities-of-investment-in-light-rail.pdf


    Tram in Plauen, Germany (pop 64,000):



    Halberstadt (pop. 40,500):



    Nordhausen (pop. 42,000):



    Frankfurt-Oder (pop. 58,500):



    Valenciennes, France (pop. 41,000):



    Norrkoping, Sweden (pop. 87,000):



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Tram / brt there's not much difference - people are anti brt because they think it's just a bus lane -
    Cork city council / county council have done investigative and advance planning on Rail / brt lines for the city to balincolig - out to carrigaline and a route through mayfield - their conclusion was that Brt was probably best and only balincolig going past UCC CUH and Cit would have the population in the FUTURE to provide a viable line -

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    because whats the point when you can spend the few extra quid and have a full tram system instead of a trolly bus system. you still have to have overhead wires, still have to take road out of use for it. cheeper isn't always the best option, its time people learned this. sometimes you have got to spend to gain
    You haven't outlined any of these relevant reasons to spend "the few extra quid". I can think of some, like the asthetics of trams vs buses and its resulting attractiveness to potential uses. And Monument mentioned some putative points on why trams could be better.

    Unless some definitive proof is shown that a well-designed, accessible, modern, speedy (dedicated infrastructure) and cheaper BRT system could still be much inferior to light rail and street-based trams, I don't see why an ideally-designed BRT should be knocked on the head for Galway if it were cheaper. I don't really agree with a "city" of 75000 people receiving single-project investments of €500 million or more, whether it be bus, tram or purely general road-user related improvements. Though I think the route that Monument has outlined is a good starting point for future plans to emerge.
    Monument wrote:
    The route via NUIG etc for Luas would be far less attractive for BRT / buses because of noise
    Precisely because of the noise of steel wheels on steel track, some metro systems (I'm thinking of Paris for instance) have moved away from rail to guided rubber tyre based solutions, even with the engineering constraints of heat generation in a tunnel. The traction of a bus needn't come from a typical combustion engine.
    pollution
    Again, this is a feature of the traction of the bus and proper renewable fuel or electricity use for bus propulsion should compare to or exceed tram usage.
    tight fits, and gradients of the bridge
    Why is this? Especially with bridge gradients, a suitable tram design for curves of a bridge could be used with buses? Taken at slow speed, Dublin Bus vehicles are normally even able to handle the likes of Mellows Bridge in Dublin city.
    Selling demolition for buses would also be a lot harder than the same for LRT.
    Very good point. Though I'm looking for more reasons before I'm convinced a Luas-style option would suit better than a properly-designed BRT solution.

    Is there anything that can be done with routes towards Salthill? Seems like a fairly densely-populated area will be rather far from the blue route in western Galway, though I know that future potential housing in and around Knocknacarra or western Galway in general should be accounted for in these plans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    A proper BRT , can be up to 3 or 4 carraige bendy bus- can be on an exclusive carraigeway - can have proper covered stations- can be a hybrid diesel electric engine- basically can be anything that a tram can be - and look fairly similar- of course the more bells and whistles the more cost - but a brt can be built up more gradually -

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Buses are noisy

    Trams are very noisy too,
    http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/0/D39996C550D3179C8025777E004B4607


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Precisely because of the noise of steel wheels on steel track, some metro systems (I'm thinking of Paris for instance) have moved away from rail to guided rubber tyre based solutions, even with the engineering constraints of heat generation in a tunnel.

    We're talking about buses vs trams and, in case you're not used to the two, studies have shown trams to be of low noise and/or a less annoying noise.

    Example: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022460X07009637

    The traction of a bus needn't come from a typical combustion engine.

    Again, this is a feature of the traction of the bus and proper renewable fuel or electricity use for bus propulsion should compare to or exceed tram usage.

    Resulting in extra cost and also possible extra reliability issues for buses -- and thus making the case for trams ever better.

    Why is this? Especially with bridge gradients, a suitable tram design for curves of a bridge could be used with buses? Taken at slow speed, Dublin Bus vehicles are normally even able to handle the likes of Mellows Bridge in Dublin city.

    Taken at slow speed -- thus slowing down east-west travel for buses and making the case for trams even stronger.

    Is there anything that can be done with routes towards Salthill? Seems like a fairly densely-populated area will be rather far from the blue route in western Galway, though I know that future potential housing in and around Knocknacarra or western Galway in general should be accounted for in these plans.

    I can't see any route which could serve Salthill and be attractive for east-west non-city centre commutes.
    Markcheese wrote: »
    A proper BRT , can be up to 3 or 4 carraige bendy bus- can be on an exclusive carraigeway - can have proper covered stations- can be a hybrid diesel electric engine- basically can be anything that a tram can be - and look fairly similar- of course the more bells and whistles the more cost - but a brt can be built up more gradually -

    Even if there are no other reasons for picking trams over buses, the political reality is that a dedicated bus route is not going to get even half of the support that Luas would.



    The High Court says otherwise:
    In summary, I hold that by operating the Green Line at the rear of No. 3 within the noise levels predicted in the EIS, which are conditioned into the Line B Order in the second paragraph of paragraph 28, and, as it happens, by operating within the more rigorous daytime and night-time levels more recently imposed on, and adopted by, the first defendant, the Green Line is being operated without infringing the comfortable and healthy enjoyment of No. 3 that would be expected by an ordinary person whose requirements are objectively reasonable in the particular circumstances which prevail. Therefore, I am satisfied that the plaintiffs have not established nuisance.

    .....

    35. Decision and order
    35.1 As the plaintiffs have not established nuisance at common law their claim must be dismissed. There will be an order to that effect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭scouserstation


    Also light rail has more segregation potential than BRT in the way it uses less space on busy roads, narrow city streets, can use old railway cuttings, is easier to drive and control as opposed to bendy buses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    This may well be a good idea. But it is still a proposal for a large-scale change in how Galway's transport is run. Infrastucture, perhaps?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    I thought Galway suffered a lot from traffic congestion? If this is still the case, I doubt buses are the answer to the transport/commuting issue. You need to show reliability in the service, not just the concept, to get people using public transport.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    monument wrote: »
    We're talking about buses vs trams and, in case you're not used to the two, studies have shown trams to be of low noise and/or a less annoying noise.

    Example: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022460X07009637
    I understood we were talking about trams in general versus buses in general and I accept that the prevailing evidence is that trams are quieter than buses. But I'm specifically referring to a BRT which would utilise electrical power for motion. I've lived in a city with both diesel buses and trolleybuses fed with both overhead gantries and buses which charge supercapacitors at bus stops and the electric-powered buses are far, far quieter than any other mode of transport I've used. I would like to know if that study investigated the use of electric buses or BRT-based transport.

    Resulting in extra cost and also possible extra reliability issues for buses -- and thus making the case for trams ever better.
    I find that hard to accept, given that many cities in europe and even in Asia have successfully used overhead gantries to power buses for decades. Even stored battery power for vehicles has moved past its infancy and whatever about hybrid buses, I've seen no evidence to see purely electric buses having reliability issues. Regarding cost, I would feel the design and build of a tram chassis and brake controls etc would be higher than an equivalent articulated, electrically powered bus but the truth is I don't have a way to look at comparable systems and make a distinction between costs.
    Taken at slow speed -- thus slowing down east-west travel for buses and making the case for trams even stronger.
    I don't understand this reference to east-west travel for buses. Mellows bridge is only one example of a humped bridge and I'm not sure why a tram would be able to deal with gradients better. For instance, http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/rolling-friction-resistance-d_1303.html If I understand that correctly, there's greater friction between a truck tyre and asphalt road than there is with steel wheels on a tram track.
    I can't see any route which could serve Salthill and be attractive for east-west non-city centre commutes.
    I was thinking of the R337, would that still be unfeasible? I notice there's land with no housing estates etc. on it to the north of Galway Golf Club and the south of the western distributor road. Could that be used for a luas alignment coming from the R337?
    Even if there are no other reasons for picking trams over buses, the political reality is that a dedicated bus route is not going to get even half of the support that Luas would.
    Agreed with that, though I wouldnt' want to see €500 million spent on Galway for *any* transport project - without significant planning changes and development to support a larger, denser population and therefore future investment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    trams are much more efficient in terms of running, staff requirements, and passenger capacity. a tram can have 2 3 or more carriges if you want and 1 driver to drive that tram, where as to have the same amount of busses you will need at least double the amount of drivers. for mass transet a rail based solution is the way. a BRT even with bendy busses or similar won't be as staff and capacity efficient as a rail based solution. personally if i had my way i would convert our city bus network to tram with busses linking from small areas where tram wouldn't be viable. we must remember in this discussion that
    1. we need to encourage future growth of our other cities, that dublin can only grow so much
    2. a transport solution for our cities isn't simply for the here and now, it has to be able to deal with future requirements and be ready for those from the get go.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    trams are much more efficient in terms of running, staff requirements, and passenger capacity. a tram can have 2 3 or more carriges if you want and 1 driver to drive that tram, where as to have the same amount of busses you will need at least double the amount of drivers. for mass transet a rail based solution is the way. a BRT even with bendy busses or similar won't be as staff and capacity efficient as a rail based solution. personally if i had my way i would convert our city bus network to tram with busses linking from small areas where tram wouldn't be viable. we must remember in this discussion that
    1. we need to encourage future growth of our other cities, that dublin can only grow so much
    2. a transport solution for our cities isn't simply for the here and now, it has to be able to deal with future requirements and be ready for those from the get go.
    1. and 2. require cohesive planning and indeed spatial decisions from local authorities and Govt. That has to allow for major population growth if we are to recoup money from a €500 million scheme. That €500 million might have far greater cost-to-benefit ratios if used for other schemes, like cycling infrastructure nationally or electrification of the Maynooth line in Dublin/Kildare. Dublin's suburbs along the Maynooth and especially the Kildare lines are underutilised with plenty of space for residential and other development. The population of Sallins should be far larger to take advantage of the train station there.

    As for Galway, why should it get an investment of an actual LRT for that kind of money when Cork has near enough 3 times the population and would also be a good candidate for spatial focus for industry and increased population. Unlike Galway, Cork City and County Councils haven't made a hames of their general planning strategies and development.

    We're not talking about real "mass transit" here, as the examples from Iwannahurl go, it's the lightest of light rail schemes that should be considered - and a city like Galway, with nearby environmental sensitivities and serious constraints on more ambitious infrastructure programs like the proposed bypass, doesn't have as much space or infrastructure to cater for populations unlike say Cork or Limerick.

    I agree with those advantages that Light rail has over bus. It's the cost of that in Galway that concerns me. There needs to be actual passengers using these 3 carriages that a tram solution might offer, though I understand that carriages can be initially much shorter to match initial demand. And there are already parts of Ireland where beleagured and loyal public transport users have to put up with chronic lack of investment, low frequency and delays that would be completely rejuvinated with an investment of €500 million, and have the demand to support it right now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    I would think intercity rail electrification would be money far better spent


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    1. and 2. require cohesive planning and indeed spatial decisions from local authorities and Govt. That has to allow for major population growth if we are to recoup money from a €500 million scheme. That €500 million might have far greater cost-to-benefit ratios if used for other schemes, like cycling infrastructure nationally or electrification of the Maynooth line in Dublin/Kildare. Dublin's suburbs along the Maynooth and especially the Kildare lines are underutilised with plenty of space for residential and other development. The population of Sallins should be far larger to take advantage of the train station there.

    As for Galway, why should it get an investment of an actual LRT for that kind of money when Cork has near enough 3 times the population and would also be a good candidate for spatial focus for industry and increased population. Unlike Galway, Cork City and County Councils haven't made a hames of their general planning strategies and development.

    We're not talking about real "mass transit" here, as the examples from Iwannahurl go, it's the lightest of light rail schemes that should be considered - and a city like Galway, with nearby environmental sensitivities and serious constraints on more ambitious infrastructure programs like the proposed bypass, doesn't have as much space or infrastructure to cater for populations unlike say Cork or Limerick.

    I agree with those advantages that Light rail has over bus. It's the cost of that in Galway that concerns me. There needs to be actual passengers using these 3 carriages that a tram solution might offer, though I understand that carriages can be initially much shorter to match initial demand. And there are already parts of Ireland where beleagured and loyal public transport users have to put up with chronic lack of investment, low frequency and delays that would be completely rejuvinated with an investment of €500 million, and have the demand to support it right now
    all our cities justify such a scheme as part of encouraging growth. having such light rail systems in place along with other attractions could if done right make them attractive.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    stehyl15 wrote: »
    I would think intercity rail electrification would be money far better spent
    That €500 million might have far greater cost-to-benefit ratios if used for other schemes, like cycling infrastructure nationally or electrification of the Maynooth line in Dublin/Kildare. Dublin's suburbs along the Maynooth and especially the Kildare lines are underutilised with plenty of space for residential and other development. The population of Sallins should be far larger to take advantage of the train station there.


    This discussion is not about funding priorities it's about transport in Galway City. For every person that does not want money spent on Galway, there's four more that will say that money should not be spent on Dublin / intercity rail / whatever.

    As for Galway, why should it get an investment of an actual LRT for that kind of money when Cork has near enough 3 times the population and would also be a good candidate for spatial focus for industry and increased population. Unlike Galway, Cork City and County Councils haven't made a hames of their general planning strategies and development.

    Ok, sure we won't come up with more sustainable solutions for Galway because there's been bad planning in the past... that's great logic.

    We're not talking about real "mass transit" here, as the examples from Iwannahurl go, it's the lightest of light rail schemes that should be considered - and a city like Galway, with nearby environmental sensitivities and serious constraints on more ambitious infrastructure programs like the proposed bypass, doesn't have as much space or infrastructure to cater for populations unlike say Cork or Limerick.

    The space is there for this project, and Galway is going to keep growing if you like it or not. It seems you want it to grow the same way it has being growing -- ie unsustainably.
    I agree with those advantages that Light rail has over bus. It's the cost of that in Galway that concerns me. There needs to be actual passengers using these 3 carriages that a tram solution might offer, though I understand that carriages can be initially much shorter to match initial demand. And there are already parts of Ireland where beleagured and loyal public transport users have to put up with chronic lack of investment, low frequency and delays that would be completely rejuvinated with an investment of €500 million, and have the demand to support it right now

    Right, there's no trip demand in Galway... must be why they are planning the bypass...


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭markpb


    stehyl15 wrote: »
    I would think intercity rail electrification would be money far better spent

    Why?


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    markpb wrote: »
    Why?

    if for example the cork line was electrified, its stock could allow an hourly belfast service and IE would have no excuse not to have enough carriges on all the other diesel services. of course thats in an ideal world. in the real world however. anyway thats for another thread

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    if for example the cork line was electrified, its stock could allow an hourly belfast service and IE would have no excuse not to have enough carriges on all the other diesel services. of course thats in an ideal world. in the real world however. anyway thats for another thread

    This post makes no sense.
    If the line to Cork (from Dublin) was electrified, how exactly would this enable an hourly service to Belfast?

    How would it improve service to people getting about in Galway city?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    monument wrote: »
    This discussion is not about funding priorities it's about transport in Galway City. For every person that does not want money spent on Galway, there's four more that will say that money should not be spent on Dublin / intercity rail / whatever.
    Really? Where are these surveys you've taken? And why would it be expressed like that? I'd be shocked to see a national survey where 4 times as many peope voted for a €500 million investment in Galway than a €500 million investment in an equivalent project in Dublin.
    Ok, sure we won't come up with more sustainable solutions for Galway because there's been bad planning in the past... that's great logic.
    That's a spurious, straw man argument. I asked a legitimate question and it's been completely sidestepped.
    The space is there for this project, and Galway is going to keep growing if you like it or not. It seems you want it to grow the same way it has being growing -- ie unsustainably.
    Could you show some evidence of that claim? Or is it another straw man? I perceive the price tag as being the most serious issue facing any project like this or the GCOB.
    Right, there's no trip demand in Galway... must be why they are planning the bypass...
    Another straightforward straw man. Where have I said or implied that there is no trip demand? Also, to my mind the main argument in favour of a bypass is owing to the existing confines of road infrastructure near or through an urban core and this offers no truly safe or noise-free solution for those who have lived in the vicinity of the existing QCB route. From things like trucks and the traffic not making journies originating in Galway and otherwise using parts or all of the existing QCB route.

    Could you please direct your comments towards what I've written? I do fundamentally approve of a light rail system if it could be made economic within Galway city - not at any cost, in other words.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Really? Where are these surveys you've taken? And why would it be expressed like that? I'd be shocked to see a national survey where 4 times as many peope voted for a €500 million investment in Galway than a €500 million investment in an equivalent project in Dublin.

    Voting for and objecting to are two different things -- people away from Dublin give out about large projects in Dublin far more than people in Dublin give out about larger project spend out of Dublin.

    That's a spurious, straw man argument. I asked a legitimate question and it's been completely sidestepped.

    Your question did not have a question mark so looked more statment-like.

    I was replying to "Unlike Galway, Cork City and County Councils haven't made a hames of their general planning strategies and development." -- from that logic, rather than fixing mistakes of more unsustainable roads now, Galway should be punished for past mistakes.

    Re Cork vs Galway -- you can't plan what one city needs around what another city needs. But Galway's road network may mean the need for alternatives in greater in its case.

    Could you show some evidence of that claim? Or is it another straw man? I perceive the price tag as being the most serious issue facing any project like this or the GCOB.

    I re-read your post: Do you think any environmental sensitivities will stop Galway from growing in the short to mid term? Those environmental sensitivities are localised and affect some things, but not all the space around Galway, not even close.

    Another straightforward straw man. Where have I said or implied that there is no trip demand? .......

    Could you please direct your comments towards what I've written? I do fundamentally approve of a light rail system if it could be made economic within Galway city - not at any cost, in other words.

    My reply: "Right, there's no trip demand in Galway... must be why they are planning the bypass..."

    Was in direct reply to: "There needs to be actual passengers using these 3 carriages that a tram solution might offer,"

    I'm not sure if you've looked at the route suggested for Luas in detail but the end to the west is well within a residential area (it does not go to the low-level housing edge) and the eastern edge-of-route has urban centres/P&R and the other has large trip generators at its end.

    Also, to my mind the main argument in favour of a bypass is owing to the existing confines of road infrastructure near or through an urban core and this offers no truly safe or noise-free solution for those who have lived in the vicinity of the existing QCB route. From things like trucks and the traffic not making journies originating in Galway and otherwise using parts or all of the existing QCB route.

    We know that most of the trips the bypass is planned for is trips originating in Galway, so fixing trips not originating in Galway by spending so much is crazy stuff.

    To date, the bypass has no noise-free or safe solutions for those living on the current QCB route. There has been no indication that they would make these roads safer or less noisy (never mind about noise-free).

    I've already suggested junction upgrades at most of the key urban QCB route junctions which would involve segregating modes (ie trams/walking/cycling on one level and cars on another. Example with BRT rather than trams (a route now getting a tram upgrade after years of debate) ...

    https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Utrecht,+Netherlands/@52.0960188,5.1433555,206m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x47c66f4339d32d37:0xd6c8fc4c19af4ae9!6m1!1e1

    351029.JPG


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Would there be any particular advantage of replicating Luas in other cities, due to the fact that the RPA/NTA already has the expertise in rolling out light rail systems in Dublin? Would that make a saving over "starting from scratch" with BRT, where there isn't as much experience/expertise? Or would it be negligible?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Aard wrote: »
    Would there be any particular advantage of replicating Luas in other cities, due to the fact that the RPA/NTA already has the expertise in rolling out light rail systems in Dublin? Would that make a saving over "starting from scratch" with BRT, where there isn't as much experience/expertise? Or would it be negligible?

    It would likely be negligible as the NTA and the councils and the new RPA/NRA should have what it takes for brt


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    If the line to Cork (from Dublin) was electrified, how exactly would this enable an hourly service to Belfast?

    Because Dublin to Cork could use electric rolling stock while the old diesel rolling stock could be used on the Belfast line


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,000 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    This post makes no sense.
    If the line to Cork (from Dublin) was electrified, how exactly would this enable an hourly service to Belfast?

    How would it improve service to people getting about in Galway city?
    it makes perfect sense if you read it again. electrify the cork line = surplus mark 4 stock. that can be sent onto the belfast service allowing an hourly service suplamenting the de-deitrick stock and meaning a couple of spairs so no 29s if the de-deitrick services are out because of a generator van fault. also frees up the regional style stock from kildare/portlaoise services which could allow extra services to galway for example and extra carriges for others where needed.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    The main reason there isn't hourly Dublin Belfast now is the border. Service increases have to be approved (funded) by both sides. In addition the line north of the border has a history of being disrupted which has led many passengers to worry about delays and disruptions and choose alternatives instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    dowlingm wrote: »
    The main reason there isn't hourly Dublin Belfast now is the border. Service increases have to be approved (funded) by both sides. In addition the line north of the border has a history of being disrupted which has led many passengers to worry about delays and disruptions and choose alternatives instead.

    Are Dublin-Belfast services going to impact on this proposal for a LUAS in Galway?

    It's not easy to see how...


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,119 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    monument wrote: »
    So one city needing projects is a now a valid argument against transport planning in another city?

    That's more strawman stuff.

    In general the answer is obviously no, because ALL towns and cities need transport planning of some sort. However a luas for Galway is far less of a priority than a luas for Cork and for obvious reasons. I assume you are from the Galway area?

    Personally, I like to think in the national interest and base it on priority, which itself should be based on population/demand and common sense.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    That's more strawman stuff.

    In general the answer is obviously no, because ALL towns and cities need transport planning of some sort. However a luas for Galway is far less of a priority than a luas for Cork and for obvious reasons. I assume you are from the Galway area?

    Personally, I like to think in the national interest and base it on priority, which itself should be based on population/demand and common sense.

    No, I'm not from Galway, and nor do I live in Galway. But your personalization focus which distracts from the issues is exactly why we have rules about such. Common sense does not come into it when you don't seem to have a clue about the issues.

    Galway has unique issues which are not common to Cork.

    It's not a case of Luas in Galway or Cork. The options here is ~€600m on a commuter bypass or the same on Luas and upgrading key junctions.

    For some reason prioritising spending and public transport always gets messed up -- stuck in the this or that mindset while the people pushing for roads get things moving and ever closer to getting this done -- they get the studies done, get past planning and start looking for funding, while the public transport heads are still fighting over nothing, pitting each project against the next before it even gets to the drawing board.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 598 ✭✭✭stehyl15


    Look a Luas for Galway may sound great and all but face its never going to happen and its no alternative to a bypass its like saying the luas is an alternative to the m50.


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