Denis O'Brien, Catherine Murphy and the threatening lawsuit letters....

Oryx

Anything done behind closed doors is dubious. Any investigation has to be public. Theyve hidden too much already.

Redbishop

Oryx wrote: »

Anything done behind closed doors is dubious. Any investigation has to be public. Theyve hidden too much already.

The public does not have the right to know anyones banking arrangements if there is no wrongdoing. To suggest otherwise is to agree that everyones banking arrangements should be a matter of public record. You cant discriminate just because he is DOB.

Oryx

Redbishop wrote: »

The public does not have the right to know anyones banking arrangements if there is no wrongdoing. To suggest otherwise is to agree that everyones banking arrangements should be a matter of public record. You cant discriminate just because he is DOB.

The key thing. Wrongdoing. You are asking the same parties to possible collusion to investigate without public scrutiny.

Redbishop

Oryx wrote: »

The key thing. Wrongdoing. You are asking the same parties to possible collusion to investigate without public scrutiny.

Not so. I am asking the judiciary to decide. Even the Gardai or the DPP.

Oryx

Redbishop wrote: »

Not so. I am asking the judiciary to decide. Even the Gardai or the DPP.

Such decisions should be transparent.

VinLieger

Banjo String wrote: »

This thread is not about Greece, Sinn Fein, or any other cute distraction.

I didn't bring up greece was simply responding to someone who did, but thanks for trying to point finger's very grown up of you

Redbishop

Oryx wrote: »

Such decisions should be transparent.

Why? If no wrong doing is found by any of the investigators I have mentioned why has anyone the right to know of personal banking arrangements. Unless you question the impartiality of the judiciary, Gardai and the DPP. Surely by right everyone has the right to some privacy if there is nothing criminal going on. If after investigation there are charges brought or even adverse findings, then the public have the right to know.

keeponhurling

Tony EH wrote: »

Funny...none of the usual suspects running to Dinny's rescue on Boards?

It must be late.

FG-bots to your keyboards please
Repeat, FG-bots please proceed to your keyboards immediately

Jazus, Lads. Ye're gas! Clutching at straws now. The good ould begrudgery is alive and kicking, even in Dail Eireann. So, Denis O'Brien is a good businessman who drives a hard bargain. So What? So do Dunnes Stores, Tesco and I'm sure Lidl and Aldi. It's called economy of scale. The more you buy, the lower the cost. Simples! I haven't read the whole 17 pages, as work calls. I doubt her figure of 7.5%. Mortgages can be had for 3.7% interest.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Redbishop wrote: »

Why? If no wrong doing is found by any of the investigators I have mentioned why has anyone the right to know of personal banking arrangements. Unless you question the impartiality of the judiciary, Gardai and the DPP. Surely by right everyone has the right to some privacy if there is nothing criminal going on. If after investigation there are charges brought or even adverse findings, then the public have the right to know.

Any personal banking arrangements that could involve preferential treatment of an individual by a taxpayer funded bank gives everyone a right to know.

keeponhurling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jazus, Lads. Ye're gas! Clutching at straws now. The good ould begrudgery is alive and kicking, even in Dail Eireann. So, Denis O'Brien is a good businessman who drives a hard bargain. So What? So do Dunnes Stores, Tesco and I'm sure Lidl and Aldi. It's called economy of scale. The more you buy, the lower the cost. Simples! I haven't read the whole 17 pages, as work calls. I doubt her figure of 7.5%. Mortgages can be had for 3.7% interest.

Yes indeed.
And with Esat he just had a very strong business case, that's all.

Just a shrewd business man, nothing to see here, move along

Penny Tration

keeponhurling wrote: »

FG-bots to your keyboards please
Repeat, FG-bots please proceed to your keyboards immediately

Not ten minutes later, Maryann84 pops in :pac:

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Deleted User wrote: »

Jazus, Lads. Ye're gas! Clutching at straws now. The good ould begrudgery is alive and kicking, even in Dail Eireann. So, Denis O'Brien is a good businessman who drives a hard bargain. So What? So do Dunnes Stores, Tesco and I'm sure Lidl and Aldi. It's called economy of scale. The more you buy, the lower the cost. Simples! I haven't read the whole 17 pages, as work calls. I doubt her figure of 7.5%. Mortgages can be had for 3.7% interest.

I think the biggest concern people have right now is how a single individual can literally silence a nations media. An individual who wins big government contracts.

The Guardian is carrying the story now.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Jazus, Lads. Ye're gas! Clutching at straws now. The good ould begrudgery is alive and kicking, even in Dail Eireann. So, Denis O'Brien is a good businessman who drives a hard bargain. So What? So do Dunnes Stores, Tesco and I'm sure Lidl and Aldi. It's called economy of scale. The more you buy, the lower the cost. Simples! I haven't read the whole 17 pages, as work calls. I doubt her figure of 7.5%. Mortgages can be had for 3.7% interest.

Yeah, this wasn't a mortgage.

Ultimately this does really boil down to the way business is done at the top end. Winks and nods, people getting super-special treatment because of who they are. A company in the business of providing credit shouldn't just be handing out credit to the CEO's buddies. No matter who the CEO is or how good he is, you don't stay in the credit business long by throwing money at people.

That's what caused the financial crash, and then it turns out 3 years later that the bank at the centre of the whole thing were still engaging in the same handshake shenanigans that caused the whole thing.

It's clearly not the government's fault. Nobody in government signed off on this. And I wouldn't expect them to go announcing it everywhere when they did discover it.
But I would have expected them to do something about it - like fire somebody and exclude DOB from public contracts. And they need to grasp this nettle now and do something about it. Bulling on with their plans will not end well.

As I also said a few weeks back, the appointment of KPMG to investigate the SiteServ deal is a complete joke. Using any of the big 4 firms to investigate is a joke because they're basically all the same people and are not going to find evidence of wrongdoing against themselves or their business partners or alumni.
We need unaffiliated auditors from the UK or US to come in by default for these kinds of audits or investigations. By law, any investigation contracted by the state should bring in foreign experts - be that a financial, medical or forensic investigation.

NS77

frostyjacks wrote: »

Yeah, newstalk glossed over it just now. Spent more time talking on one of the silly stories.

Very awkward treatment of it on Newstalk. Wonder why?

Redbishop

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Any personal banking arrangements that could involve preferential treatment of an individual by a taxpayer funded bank gives everyone a right to know.

I m not arguing with you there Tanga. But my point is who gets to decide if there is preferential treatment? Is it the media or the public? For this to happen then someones personal banking details have to be made public and I go back to my earlier point that if that is the case then everyones banking details should have to be public, Not just DOBs, otherwise you are discriminating against him. Due process and all that.

seamus

NS77 wrote: »

Very awkward treatment of it on Newstalk. Wonder why?

Who do you think owns NewsTalk?

_Kaiser_

NS77 wrote: »

Very awkward treatment of it on Newstalk. Wonder why?

Cause he owns it...

O'Brien set up and chaired the Esat Digifone consortium which won a mobile phone licence in the 1990s.[3] The Moriarty Tribunal found almost beyond doubt that O'Brien's won this contract due to payments he made to Michael Lowry, the then communications minister, who unduly influenced the bidding process.

This contract formed the basis of O'Brien's fortune. He established Digicel, a major telecoms provider in the Caribbean. O'Brien formed Communicorp Group Ltd in 1989, with the company currently owning 42 radio stations in eight European countries, including Ireland's Newstalk, Today FM, Dublin's 98 (formerly 98FM), Spin 1038 and Spin South West.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_O%27Brien

NS77

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Cause he owns it...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_O%27Brien

Sarcasm meter must be faulty ;-)

_Kaiser_

NS77 wrote: »

Sarcasm meter must be faulty ;-)

More coffee needed I think But still, worth highlighting for those reading this thread who aren't aware of how far this guy's control over our media goes.

Tony EH

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

meh, whole thing stinks of mindless begrudgery tbh.

Spoken like a true muppet.

:pac:

keeponhurling

seamus wrote: »

Who do you think owns NewsTalk?

Ah, I see

gaius c

Help me out here lads. Are these the Siteserv loans or are they separate loans to DOB personally?
It's very hard to make any sense out of all this, primarily because of the strictures on reporting.

The siteserve loans are reported to be €150 million before writedown but the articles from yesterday are talking about preferential interest rates on €500 million of loans. Where's the other €350 million coming from?

SafeSurfer

Redbishop wrote: »

I m not arguing with you there Tanga. But my point is who gets to decide if there is preferential treatment? Is it the media or the public? For this to happen then someones personal banking details have to be made public and I go back to my earlier point that if that is the case then everyones banking details should have to be public, Not just DOBs, otherwise you are discriminating against him. Due process and all that.

They are hardly DO'Bs "personal" banking details. It's not the same as discussing publicly how much interest an individual is paying on their mortgage. These are companies, separate entities from O' Brien.
More "personal" information is divulged and discussed publicly in court every day during cases involving the repossession of family homes.

Tabnabs

For all the abuse the Guardian newspaper takes, and for all the drivel they have published in the past (Owen Jones et al.), they are not afraid to report on stories that others shy away from or are forbidden to reprint.

Here is a key passage from her speech (edited only to make it explicable to people outside Ireland who have not followed the details of a long-run saga):

“We are now aware... that the former CEO of IBRC made verbal agreements with Denis O’Brien to allow him to extend the terms of his already expired loans...

I understand that Mr O’Brien was enjoying a rate of approximately 1.25% when IBRC could, and arguably should, have been charging 7.5%.

Given that we are talking about outstanding sums of upwards of €500 million, the interest rate applied is not an insignificant issue for the public interest.

We also know that Denis O’Brien felt confident enough in his dealings with IBRC that he could write to Kieran Wallace, the special liquidator, and demand that the same favourable terms extended to him by way of a verbal agreement be continued.

We now have Kieran Wallace, who has been appointed by the government to conduct the IBRC review, actually joining with IBRC and Denis O’Brien in the high court to seek to injunct the information I have outlined from coming into the public domain. Surely that alone represents a conflict”.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/may/29/irelands-media-silenced-over-mps-speech-about-denis-obrien?CMP=share_btn_tw

keano_afc

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Personally what I want to see is political shunning. Anyone once found guilty by a tribunal or court of any kind of corruption is permanently barred from getting any further state contracts of any kind.

Zero tolerance. If once you act like a cute hoor, you are never again allowed within a mile of anything involving exchequer money.

And likewise, any TD involved should be barred from running for office.

It sickens me to see the letters TD after Michael Lowry's name.

Oryx

How long before boards gets a nice letter from some solicitors over this thread?

Streetwalker

Ireland. The best little democracy money can buy.

Redbishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

They are hardly DO'Bs "personal" banking details. It's not the same as discussing publicly how much interest an individual is paying on their mortgage. These are companies, separate entities from O' Brien.
More "personal" information is divulged and discussed publicly in court every day during cases involving the repossession of family homes.

yep

super_furry

Oryx wrote: »

How long before boards gets a nice letter from some solicitors over this thread?

Broadsheet got one, replied saying that they were protected by the constitution and got a letter back basically saying 'were watching you'.

Disgusting to see the power a foreign resident can have over the Irish courts and media.