Nighttime Flight Paths over Dublin

Rigardo

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

All I can add to do this thread is that I wish my life was so simple and problem free to be able to care so much about irrelevant things like an aircraft overflying the house once in a while

Meh, I'd be more worried if irrelevant things like people asking innocent questions on an internet forum got me as wound up as some of the people on here

FWVT

lucernarian wrote: »

Jeez, someone has made the point that some mention of planned usage of the 16/34 runway would be helpful and is it much to ask etc... For whatever reasons, be it knowing to wear ear plugs in advance or taking sleeping tablets or some other arbitrary thing they could do to prepare and minimise any impact on sleep. This is not a serious imposition on the DAA if it is indeed known for more than a few days in advance.

What it gets is some smart alek responses about NoTAMs and moving the house to Leitrim... I'm not sure I would demand, or support demands that the DAA put up every possible moment of airport operations that might impact upon "neighbours" but the point certainly doesn't require condescending responses...

The original complaints were about noise keeping people awake (and only a couple of times a night). They now seem to have shifted to actually being about not being told that a certain runway will be in use. Which is it? The notam has highlighted that until at least May 31st runway 16/34 will be in use (in either direction, depending on wind). These people know that now but are still complaining that it's not on the website, as if that will make one bit of difference to their sleep.

We have become a country of whingers. We feel the need to complain about something, it's just that we're not quite sure what about and why. The other thread on this forum yesterday confirms that.

homerjay2005

got to love these threads, majority of these flights are landing before 12.00 and are at about 4k feet in loughlinstown. i live 4 or 5 miles closer to the runway and have no issues, the plane fly right over our house also.

if you cant sleep, i suggest the problem is the windows in you house need a bit more double glazing or you are going to bed too early;););)

lord lucan

sjb25 wrote: »

Try working shift work lads I'd like to know what time the bin man is coming today also the postman as he will make the dog bark id like my neighbour to inform me if he needs to cut his grass or do anyting that mite wake me because I'm just of a 12hr night shift (back tonight for another 12)and i need to know so I can sleep during the day actually any motorist passing the house needs to text me now

Actually all them transatlantic aircraft that pass right over me roaring so Shannon control should send me a text aswell so il know my sleep may be interrupted

I hear you, pity my neighbours don't warn me they're having bbqs in the summer on a Saturday night and I'm in work for 04.00 the next morning.

lucernarian

FWVT wrote:

These people know that now but are still complaining that it's not on the website, as if that will make one bit of difference to their sleep

Ah here now, I'm only addressing the recent posts which moved on to not knowing about planned alterations. I've explained how it would make a difference, have a read of it again. If you think that counts as "whinging" then its a very haughty and dismissive attitude.

This thread has several examples of condescending posts which just bad cricket. It is not up to you to decide whether an issue should concern somebody or not, or just the "professionals". The DAA already have paid PR people for that. The issue is such a small matter and the reaction it gets from some here is far too defensive. Also, why would anybody start mentioning double-glazing, Hounslow and neighbours' dogs all in response to someone looking for a heads up about a different runway in use? I've already offered good reasons why forewarning of less usual runway approaches being used could mitigate any possible sleep disruption. I think the DAA missing an update on twitter isn't a big deal BTW.

homerjay2005

Calina wrote: »

I
My issue isn't the aircraft noise per se, it's the the fact that unusually, Dublin Airport didn't flag it.

what good would that do, you stay up later or close your windows? sounds like the typical irishness of just having a good old moan for the sake of it.

Preset No.3

If only we could get Frankie Boyle in here to explain the situation to those complaining......

Supercell

Thanks for the information, I thought it was the summer chartered flights or something as this seems to happen every year during the summertime since I bought here about four years ago. Is that a correct assumption to make - that the maintenance and extra summer flights are likely to be a feature for the future at this time of year?

Regarding the noise, I grew up in Dalkey right below Torca hill but don't remember the aircraft noise as loud as it is here in Loughlinstown, I wonder if its the local topography somehow amplifying the noise here?
It doesn't really bother me at this stage, but would rather they flew over the bay in a NIMBY kind of way!

cml387

Is continuous descent approach in use in Dublin?

cml387

cml387 wrote: »

Is continuous descent approach in use in Dublin?

Yes as designed by the IAA on 10 and 28 but pilots can and do fly CDAs to any runway

smurfjed

Yes

Are you sure? Last time i looked at the STAR from the Bray area it was a constant altitude the whole way around the bay.

smurfjed

smurfjed wrote: »

Are you sure? Last time i looked at the STAR from the Bray area it was a constant altitude the whole way around the bay.

Like I said the IAA designed CDAs on 10/28 pilots however can fly CDAs themselves, just like they do at Heathrow and Gatwick, for 16 and 34.

NATs haven't designed any CDAs they just have instructed pilots to descend continously when instructed and advised pilots on what they consider continous descent to be.

smurfjed

Have a look at Jeppesen 10-2G STAR RWY 28 P-RNAV, there is a note associated with points SORIN, SIVNA, SUGAD, DW704, DW705 and DW706, the note states "AT FL70 MAX 230 KTS". The total distance is about 34 nms, so thats not a CDA.

10-2E, 2F, 2, 2A are all similar.

smurfjed

smurfjed wrote: »

Have a look at Jeppesen 10-2G STAR RWY 28 P-RNAV, there is a note associated with points SORIN, SIVNA, SUGAD, DW704, DW705 and DW706, the note states "AT FL70 MAX 230 KTS". The total distance is about 34 nms, so thats not a CDA.

10-2E, 2F, 2, 2A are all similar.

It is continuous descent to SORIN/SIVNA and KERAV (where able)and then when the aircraft is turned off the sequence leg (SORIN, SIVNA, SUGAD, DW704, DW705 and DW706), the bracketed routing is only used for sequencing or as a linear hold when traffic requires it.

CDA is not practicable from cruise level due to numerous other reasons mainly other traffic.

https://www.iaa.ie/TMA2012_video

https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/default/files/content/documents/sesar/point-merge-system-in-dublin.pdf

Video should explain it hopefully.

sdanseo

Notwithstanding any of the above, pilots and ATC will always work to provide a continuous and relatively uninterrupted descent when it's practical (which is very much the case in the early hours with very few movements).

smurfjed

Excellent video thanks, now I would be interested in knowing if foreign airlines actually instruct their crews to watch it. There is nothing in the Jeppesen reference section to prepare me for these procedures. My FMS/VNAV would commence the descent planned on reaching FL70 at the first height restriction point in the STAR. Any distance greater than 21nm from that initial point would result in adding power and noise.

Are these new procedures bringing aircraft across the base of the Dublin mountains at a lower height than was used for the old procedure?

FWVT

So as runways 28 (63%) and 10 (30%) make up 93% of the runway usage (as shown in the pdf above), it means 16/34 is only used 7% of the time. Of that 7% I would imagine the vast majority is 16, meaning arrivals across the city onto 34 occur on only a handful of days a year (current R28 upgrade works notwithstanding).

eatmyshorts

CDA's start from 6000 feet.

eatmyshorts

eatmyshorts wrote: »

CDA's start from 6000 feet.

CDAs start from as high as possible preferably from cruise. Ultimately you do it from what you can get. The U.K it is 6000ft because the holds have lowest levels at FL70 around Heathrow.

Chris_5339762

FWVT wrote: »

So as runways 28 (63%) and 10 (30%) make up 93% of the runway usage (as shown in the pdf above), it means 16/34 is only used 7% of the time. Of that 7% I would imagine the vast majority is 16, meaning arrivals across the city onto 34 occur on only a handful of days a year (current R28 upgrade works notwithstanding).

Very anecdotally I've been watching FR24 for about a year and a half and I've only seen 34 used three or four times, for a few hours at a time only. Shame for passengers, as its the most interesting approach by far.