Nighttime Flight Paths over Dublin

Rigardo

Hi I have a question for ye good folk if anyone can help. I'm living in Loughlinstown in South Dublin and for the past two nights we've had difficulty sleeping due to a lot of aircraft noise overhead. I was looking on Flightradar last night & the nighttime flights for Dublin airport seem to have been flying directly over our house.

I saw a few people living nearby complaining on facebook about this & some reckoned the change in flight path was due to winds & someone else said it's because the main runway is closed at night for the next couple of months. Can anyone shed any light on which of these is correct or if it's for a different reason? I'm just a bit worried we're going to have this every night now. It's not a problem I ever expected when we don't live anywhere near the airport!

LXFlyer

I have lost count of the number of times this question appears here.

The cross runway is often in use late at night to allow for maintenance on the main runway, and also if the crosswinds dictate.

Rigardo

Rigardo wrote: »

Hi I have a question for ye good folk if anyone can help. I'm living in Loughlinstown in South Dublin and for the past two nights we've had difficulty sleeping due to a lot of aircraft noise overhead. I was looking on Flightradar last night & the nighttime flights for Dublin airport seem to have been flying directly over our house.

I saw a few people living nearby complaining on facebook about this & some reckoned the change in flight path was due to winds & someone else said it's because the main runway is closed at night for the next couple of months. Can anyone shed any light on which of these is correct or if it's for a different reason? I'm just a bit worried we're going to have this every night now. It's not a problem I ever expected when we don't live anywhere near the airport!

Varying reasons, mostly because main runway is closed for maintaince, but expect this for several months after the summer when the main runway is overlaid every night.

Secondly when the wind direction is from the north runway 34 is active.

coylemj

Deleted User wrote: »

Secondly when the wind direction is from the north runway 34 is active.

Leaving maintenance aside, what's the tipping point (wind direction and speed) which will cause them to switch from 28 to 34? Isn't 34 too short for the transatlantic flights to take-off from?

It so happens that the wind last night was from the NW so it did appear to make sense to use 34 but someone asked Dublin Airport on Twitter and they said that there was maintenance going on on 28. I was awake after 4 a.m. this morning and two early EI arrivals from Nth America also flew over the southside and landed on 34 between 4:10 and 4:30 before they switched back to 28.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

Leaving maintenance aside, what's the tipping point (wind direction and speed) which will cause them to switch from 28 to 34? Isn't 34 too short for the transatlantic flights to take-off from?

It so happens that the wind last night was from the NW so it did appear to make sense to use 34 but someone asked Dublin Airport on Twitter and they said that there was maintenance going on on 28. I was awake after 4 a.m. this morning and two early EI arrivals from Nth America also flew over the southside and landed on 34 between 4:10 and 4:30 before they switched back to 28.

Night work Sun night to Thur night 2300-0500, tipping point will be when crosswind is above limits causing pilots and ATC an issue eg go arounds.

If the wind is strong enough the heavies will use 34/16 and not wait for 28 to open again.

ted1

There was a serious incident in Rathmichael on Sunday night, so the police helicopter was in the area for several hours.

coylemj

ted1 wrote: »

There was a serious incident in Rathmichael on Sunday night, so the police helicopter was in the area for several hours.

You know the answer to the OP's query, you supplied it to me on this thread on the same topic over in Dublin South....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95640103&postcount=5

ted1

coylemj wrote: »

You know the answer to the OP's query, you supplied it to me on this thread on the same topic over in Dublin South....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95640103&postcount=5

Aswell as commercial planes there was the helicopter which was causing more noise than anything else. Particularly in the loughlinstown area which is mentioned by the OP

coylemj

ted1 wrote: »

Aswell as commercial planes there was the helicopter which was causing more noise than anything else. Particularly in the loughlinstown area which is mentioned by the OP

Who also mentioned that he looked on Flightradar and saw the planes flying directly over his house on the way to Dublin Airport.

Rigardo

We were wondering if there was also a helicopter around on Sunday night as the noise was particularly bad that night, much louder than Monday.

MuffinsDa

ted1 wrote: »

There was a serious incident in Rathmichael on Sunday night, so the police helicopter was in the area for several hours.

The police helicopter regularly hovers over that area, pretty much right above my house. I think it's usually along N11/M50 junction, between Loughlinstown and Fassaroe.

aphex™

MuffinsDa wrote: »

The police helicopter regularly hovers over that area, pretty much right above my house. I think it's usually along N11/M50 junction, between Loughlinstown and Fassaroe.

You must live in an area with terribly high crime, so.

MuffinsDa

Yep, Rathmichael is well known for its high crime rate

I'm not sure if it's related to crime, I thought it may be traffic related. Or else something is going on in the fields and disused lands around Fassaroe.

aphex™

I always thought Rathmichael was wide open for burglaries though, I would have assumed it was that?

You'd wanna form some sort of neighbourhood watch group if the Garda helicopter is coming over regularly, try and get in touch with them to get to the root of it.

ted1

aphex™ wrote: »

I always thought Rathmichael was wide open for burglaries though, I would have assumed it was that?

You'd wanna form some sort of neighbourhood watch group if the Garda helicopter is coming over regularly, try and get in touch with them to get to the root of it.

Sunday's night search was for a extremely serious offence.

FWVT

A0772/15 NOTAMN
Q) EISN/QMRLC/IV/NBO/A /000/999/5325N00616W005
A) EIDW 1505252200 C) 1505310345
D) DAILY 2200-0345
E) RWY 10/28 CLOSED
CREATED: 22 May 2015 08:59:00
SOURCE: EUECYIYN

Runway 10/28 closed from 11 pm to 04.45 am every night.

coylemj

FWVT wrote: »

Runway 10/28 closed from 11 pm to 04.45 am every night.

That may be on some database accessible by aviators but on Monday night I checked the Dublin Airport website and scanned back through their tweets - nothing about runway maintenance.

There is a box 'Latest News' on their web homepage where they may have posted similar notices in the past but there's nothing about this ....

http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news.aspx

https://twitter.com/DublinAirport

I'm not particularly wound up about this but it does seem to have affected some people more than others - one guy who lives in D5 has been hammering the minister and the DAA about it on Twitter since Monday night.

lambayire

Planes fly over us in Baldoyle/Portmarnock pretty much every morning, noon and night.
The last Emirates flight can make a right roar if it is taking off over our way.

Don't you just get used to it?

I have.

Quite often I will be woken by the first US flights coming in.
Then I know I have a couple of hour or 2 of sleep left.
Happy days for me.

jon1981

Same here in Artane/Killester area. When they open the other runway due to wind or whatever they pass directly over our road. You do get use to it. I noticed it when we first moved in but a few years later I don't notice it at all. To be honest it's not THAT loud that it would wake you from a sleep. I guess it depends on how much of a light sleeper ppl are.

I would have thought the plane would be still pretty high in the sky out at Loughlinstown compared with north Dublin areas, is it really that bad?

FWVT

coylemj wrote: »

That may be on some database accessible by aviators but on Monday night I checked the Dublin Airport website and scanned back through their tweets - nothing about runway maintenance.

There is a box 'Latest News' on their web homepage where they may have posted similar notices in the past but there's nothing about this ....

http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news.aspx

https://twitter.com/DublinAirport

I'm not particularly wound up about this but it does seem to have affected some people more than others - one guy who lives in D5 has been hammering the minister and the DAA about it on Twitter since Monday night.

It's not on their website because resurfacing work on the runway during the night is of no concern to anyone except aviation professionals. It is not the first time this has happened. They do not have to send out tweets to people in Loughlinstown or wherever to tell them hey, we're changing runway.

There is no issue here.

FWVT

FWVT wrote: »

It's not on their website because resurfacing work on the runway during the night is of no concern to anyone except aviation professionals. It is not the first time this has happened. They do not have to send out tweets to people in Loughlinstown or wherever to tell them hey, we're changing runway.

There is no issue here.

They do occasionally put it up to forewarn local residents of upcoming noise over affected areas as a result of airfield work but it's not put up daily.

Traffic over Loughlinstown would usually be above 3000ft on approach. That's not that low. On a good night I can hear 747-400s roaring by overhead at 30,000ft enroute to the US and that'll be with the TV on as well.

Razor44

I lived on the approach to 28 up until last Xmas In baldoyle. To be honest you don't hear them after awhile. I now live just off the approach for 34 and even when it's in use I don't hear them. It's a fact of modern life. And let's face it we need the airport. Also it was built long before most of the city.

Like anything you get used to it. Thank god we don't have bae1-11s in and out anymore they made the 737 200s sound civilised.

ted1

I enjoy going on holidays , so can't see how I could ever com

Rigardo

jon1981 wrote: »

I would have thought the plane would be still pretty high in the sky out at Loughlinstown compared with north Dublin areas, is it really that bad?

It's not loud enough that it'd wake you, more that it was causing trouble getting to sleep as we're not used to it. It doesn't bother me but my wife's a poor sleeper so it was stopping her getting to sleep. I guess we'll probably stop noticing it after a while. It was very loud Sunday night but we've since established that was mainly due to a helicopter in the area that night.

Reoil

FWVT wrote: »

Runway 10/28 closed from 11 pm to 04.45 am every night.

If it's 11pm to 04.45, why doesn't it say 2200-0345?

highlydebased

Reoil wrote: »

If it's 11pm to 04.45, why doesn't it say 2200-0345?

Aviation time is UTC time, Irish Summertime is UTC + 1

sdanseo

RWY16/34 would always typically be used when wind is coming from a northerly, northeasterly or north-north-westerly direction and is in excess of 15 knots. Below that, 10/28 is preferred (unless as is currently the case it is closed at night).

The flight path of aircraft landing RWY34 forms a straight line from the Killiney to the Pigeon House to the Airport. Link

coylemj

FWVT wrote: »

It's not on their website because resurfacing work on the runway during the night is of no concern to anyone except aviation professionals. It is not the first time this has happened. They do not have to send out tweets to people in Loughlinstown or wherever to tell them hey, we're changing runway.

There is no issue here.

It is of concern to some people if two incoming transatlantic planes fly over their houses at 4:30 in the morning when they're not used to that level of noise, especially if it wakes young children or teenagers about to do exams.

If it's of no concern to you then maybe just don't participate in the thread, otherwise I suggest you let the mods decide what we can and can not discuss.

sdanseo

coylemj wrote: »

It is of concern to some people if two incoming transatlantic planes fly over their houses at 4:30 in the morning when they're not used to that level of noise, especially if it wakes young children or teenagers about to do exams.

If it's of no concern to you then maybe just don't participate in the thread, otherwise I suggest you let the mods decide what we can and can not discuss.

Aircraft on final or short final to land are producing perhaps 35% of max power, they generate relatively little noise. This is significantly less of a concern than departing aircraft who on a much more regular basis fly over densely populated areas.

The most frequently-used departure from both designations of RW10/28 pass equally distant from where I live (EIDW 2.24-10 and EIDW2.24-12 here - aircraft departing 10 would be at perhaps 3,000ft and aircraft departing 28 at perhaps FL80 at their nearest point to me and I'd rate the level of disruption in either case as virtually non-existent. The only aircraft movement that causes any real noise is R117 which crosses directly over the house very regularly at <1,000ft and I'd much prefer they were there than not.

Let's say these arriving aircraft did wake up people preparing for exams - when I was 17 or 18 I could have counted the time it would take me to get back asleep at 4.30am in seconds.

coylemj

sdanseo wrote: »

Aircraft on final or short final to land are producing perhaps 35% of max power, they generate relatively little noise. This is significantly less of a concern than departing aircraft who on a much more regular basis fly over densely populated areas.

I accept your point but when you talk about 'relatively little noise' you're talking about relative to take-off noise, I'm talking about relative to no noise at all.

One of the factors which accentuates noise from aircraft is that with double and triple glazing, a lot of houses have shut out most lateral sound so a plane flying overhead at 3,000-4,000 feet (whether taking off or on approach) can represent a significant irritant and source of disturbance for a lot of people if they're not used to it.

Please don't get me wrong here, I know runways need maintenance and even when 28 is open, planes often have to use 34 when there's a strong NW wind. All I'm saying is that in the past, DAA have posted warnings about night flights over the southside on Twitter and their website, this time they didn't bother.

sdanseo

coylemj wrote: »

I accept your point but when you talk about 'relatively little noise' you're talking about relative to take-off noise, I'm talking about relative to no noise at all.

One of the factors which accentuates noise from aircraft is that with double and triple glazing, a lot of houses have shut out most lateral sound so a plane flying overhead at 3,000-4,000 feet (whether taking off or on approach) can represent a significant irritant and source of disturbance for a lot of people if they're not used to it.

Please don't get me wrong here, I know runways need maintenance and even when 28 is open, planes often have to use 34 when there's a strong NW wind. All I'm saying is that in the past, DAA have posted warnings about night flights over the southside on Twitter and their website, this time they didn't bother.

I understand what you're saying about people who aren't used to the disturbance perhaps being more susceptible to it, and that's a fair point.

I don't agree that a warning is of any use whatsoever. It's going to wake you or it isn't. Is every student and child in North Dublin going to be shipped to a relative on the southside because there may be some noise in the night?

coylemj

sdanseo wrote: »

I don't agree that a warning is of any use whatsoever. It's going to wake you or it isn't. Is every student and child in North Dublin going to be shipped to a relative on the southside because there may be some noise in the night?

No, of course not and I think most people don't have a problem with few planes flying overhead between 11 p.m. and midnight. I was out with binoculars the past two nights myself getting a close-up look, they were just below 4,000 feet according to Flightradar.

However in the early hours of Tuesday morning, two incoming EI transatlantic flights arrived between 4:15 and 4:30 a.m. and landed on 34, they would have caused considerable disturbance for light sleepers along the flight path. Flying into 28 means that there is significant less houses overflown and those that are are used to it.

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

That may be on some database accessible by aviators but on Monday night I checked the Dublin Airport website and scanned back through their tweets - nothing about runway maintenance.

There is a box 'Latest News' on their web homepage where they may have posted similar notices in the past but there's nothing about this ....

http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news.aspx

https://twitter.com/DublinAirport

I'm not particularly wound up about this but it does seem to have affected some people more than others - one guy who lives in D5 has been hammering the minister and the DAA about it on Twitter since Monday night.

That guy on twitter (@mcod80) really hasn't a leg to stand on.

He doesn't seem to realise that the airport is open 24 hours a day and that he lives under the flightpath of an active runway, which can be pressed into use at any time.

lambayire

I have to admit that, until recently, I did not realise that the airport was open 24 hours a day.

I queried (very nicely via email) with DAA about the Lufthansa flight that leaves at 5.20am or so.
I always thought that flights did not leave before 6am.

I got quite a snotty response from them.

mailforkev

ted1 wrote: »

Sunday's night search was for a extremely serious offence.

I was wondering what was going on there, could see it in the distance out the bedroom window for a good while.

Any chance you could tell us what it was? (I'm just being nosy so no worries if you can't say)

lxflyer

lxflyer wrote: »

That guy on twitter (@mcod80) really hasn't a leg to stand on.

He doesn't seem to realise that the airport is open 24 hours a day and that he lives under the flightpath of an active runway, which can be pressed into use at any time.

Lad should try live in Myrtle lane near Heathrow ! Now that I imagine is noisy. But still I'd buy a house there, even though the last few that were for sale basically needed to be rebuilt.

imurdaddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lad should try live in Myrtle lane near Heathrow ! Now that I imagine is noisy. But still I'd buy a house there, even though the last few that were for sale basically needed to be rebuilt.

A house by a busy runway would be a selling point for me

coylemj

More attic insulation is probably the solution.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

More attic insulation is probably the solution.

Has a negative effect as well, while good for sound and heat insulation it makes it a bitch during a very warm spell to cool a house down, yes I know rare but worth thinking about

FWVT

coylemj wrote: »

It is of concern to some people if two incoming transatlantic planes fly over their houses at 4:30 in the morning when they're not used to that level of noise, especially if it wakes young children or teenagers about to do exams.

If it's of no concern to you then maybe just don't participate in the thread, otherwise I suggest you let the mods decide what we can and can not discuss.

I find the dog next door barking the odd time at night very irritating. I should therefore send a complaint to Dogstrust. Two planes overfly some houses during a whole night. Maybe 40 seconds of noise in total. If people were already finding it hard to sleep at 4 am then I suggest that aircraft noise was not the cause.

And I will post what and where I like within the constraints of the forum charter, thank you. I wasn't aware of anyone deciding what topics we can and cannot discuss. If you have a problem with my post report it to a mod.

fr336

I'd find the planes relaxing, no doubt if I were under a flightpath the same neighbours who would complain about it would be the same ones who bang their cardoors loudly at all hours and generally do as their please in the way of noise. There are plenty of houses in the world which aren't near an airport

billie1b

Ha ha, just had a great giggle at that door knob on twitter (mcodd) or whoever he is, what a complete bell end! I would have told him to f--k right off if I was in charge of the DAA twitter page.

Airport runway would also be a great selling point for me, Newtown cottages is where I wanna be at

fr336

billie1b wrote: »

Ha ha, just had a great giggle at that door knob on twitter (mcodd) or whoever he is, what a complete bell end! I would have told him to f--k right off if I was in charge of the DAA twitter page.

Airport runway would also be a great selling point for me, Newtown cottages is where I wanna be at

We'll crowdfund you here, all we ask is that you set up a few top of the range webcams

fr336

fr336 wrote: »

We'll crowdfund you here, all we ask is that you set up a few top of the range webcams

And here was me going to convert the attic and put a large balcony in my new Myrtle ave house for ya and all I needed to do was put a webcam in :rolleyes:

fr336

Deleted User wrote: »

And here was me going to convert the attic and put a large balcony in my new Myrtle ave house for ya and all I needed to do was put a webcam in :rolleyes:

Ah given the choice it'd still be DUB all the way for me, but then Hounslow is a bit of a hole

smurfjed

While we have to accept that the airport was there before most of our houses and that it is a required part of our cities infrastructure, but there is nothing stopping Dublin airport from becoming a good neighbour. It would be easy with todays social media to tell people about the planned runway in use.

They could also implement a night time noise quota, QC system such as they have in Heathrow.

Nothing wrong with being a friendly airport.

There again they could also invite some Classic cargo B747's in at night, then agree to ban them to keep the neighbours happy

Calina

FWVT wrote: »

It's not on their website because resurfacing work on the runway during the night is of no concern to anyone except aviation professionals. It is not the first time this has happened. They do not have to send out tweets to people in Loughlinstown or wherever to tell them hey, we're changing runway.

There is no issue here.

There is an issue. I live in Dublin 9 and while I fully recognise that there are times 34 will be in use, I'd like it to be flagged on the airport's website so that I can be clear on how often or how long I have to listen to this. I don't mind it during the day but there are parts of Dublin 9 which are much closer to the airport than most of the residential areas in Portmarnock/Howth for example. The aircraft are much lower overhead.

This is actually quite disturbing late at night and it's particularly irritating before 5am. And it is definitely louder in Dublin 9 than in Howth or Portmarnock in my experience. I've lived in Portmarnock as well. I've also lived in Forrest Road in Swords and of all of them, it's probably been loudest there when 16 is used for landing.

It would be nice to get a warning for it for the simple reason that 16/34 is rarely used and so it is out of the ordinary for residents under the flightpath to it.

sdanseo wrote: »

Aircraft on final or short final to land are producing perhaps 35% of max power, they generate relatively little noise. This is significantly less of a concern than departing aircraft who on a much more regular basis fly over densely populated areas.

On balance, I find landing noise to be significantly louder than take off noise when 34 is used for landing and 16 for take off.

sdanseo wrote: »

I understand what you're saying about people who aren't used to the disturbance perhaps being more susceptible to it, and that's a fair point.

I don't agree that a warning is of any use whatsoever. It's going to wake you or it isn't. Is every student and child in North Dublin going to be shipped to a relative on the southside because there may be some noise in the night?

It's nice to know. Most people would like advance notice of matters which may discommode them, for example roadworks in the vicinity of where they live.

My past experience is that Dublin Airport has generally flagged periods of maintenance. The fact that they did not, on this occasion, is disappointing as it was fairly obvious that wind was not a factor.

I take photographs of low flying aircraft if it happens during the day and I happen to be at home. I don't really object to it. But I would like a warning in advance for overflights during the night, particularly as Dublin Airport has been in the habit of doing it.

I've lived in the area for 5 years now and I'd have to say that while it has never been completely unknown for 34 to be in use, already this year it feels like it has seen significantly more use than was the case in past years. If we're going to have it 4 or 5 nights a week for the summer, then I think that advance notice via the airport's website is not too much to ask for.

FWVT

Calina wrote: »

There is an issue. I live in Dublin 9 and while I fully recognise that there are times 34 will be in use, I'd like it to be flagged on the airport's website so that I can be clear on how often or how long I have to listen to this. I don't mind it during the day but there are parts of Dublin 9 which are much closer to the airport than most of the residential areas in Portmarnock/Howth for example. The aircraft are much lower overhead.

This is actually quite disturbing late at night and it's particularly irritating before 5am. And it is definitely louder in Dublin 9 than in Howth or Portmarnock in my experience. I've lived in Portmarnock as well. I've also lived in Forrest Road in Swords and of all of them, it's probably been loudest there when 16 is used for landing.

It would be nice to get a warning for it for the simple reason that 16/34 is rarely used and so it is out of the ordinary for residents under the flightpath to it.



On balance, I find landing noise to be significantly louder than take off noise when 34 is used for landing and 16 for take off.



It's nice to know. Most people would like advance notice of matters which may discommode them, for example roadworks in the vicinity of where they live.

My past experience is that Dublin Airport has generally flagged periods of maintenance. The fact that they did not, on this occasion, is disappointing as it was fairly obvious that wind was not a factor.

I take photographs of low flying aircraft if it happens during the day and I happen to be at home. I don't really object to it. But I would like a warning in advance for overflights during the night, particularly as Dublin Airport has been in the habit of doing it.

I've lived in the area for 5 years now and I'd have to say that while it has never been completely unknown for 34 to be in use, already this year it feels like it has seen significantly more use than was the case in past years. If we're going to have it 4 or 5 nights a week for the summer, then I think that advance notice via the airport's website is not too much to ask for.

And what would you do if you did get advance warning? What would that change? The noise would still be there. How would you hear it less?

smurfjed

How would you hear it less?

Ear plugs Or create a white noise so that the aircraft noise doesn't affect you.

Calina

FWVT wrote: »

And what would you do if you did get advance warning? What would that change? The noise would still be there. How would you hear it less?

Actually it's possible to sleep through noise you're expecting to hear. Noise you're not expecting, on the other hand...particularly at 4.50am, that's a different kettle of fish.

I don't see why it is so hard now for the airport to include the maintenance in its news pages. It has generally done it before.

eatmyshorts

coylemj wrote: »

It is of concern to some people if two incoming transatlantic planes fly over their houses at 4:30 in the morning when they're not used to that level of noise, especially if it wakes young children or teenagers about to do exams.

If it's of no concern to you then maybe just don't participate in the thread, otherwise I suggest you let the mods decide what we can and can not discuss.

For those of us that have been up all night and are flying the aircraft at that time, I guarantee it's much worse!