New rules on CIDs?

gaiscioch

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You can move within your ETB and you retain your cid. If you are redeployed you can retain your cid. If you lose your job and apply for a new job you are back to zero

Interesting. I know somebody in a non-ETB school who, by virtue of their CID, will be redeployed in the foreseeable future but have decided they'd like to apply for jobs before that simply because they'd rather choose their school than have the Department's two Redeployment directors choose it for them. Having read this it seems like quite a risk, even if doing so makes sense at another level.

rainbowtrout

Frankly frank wrote: »

Non ETB?

No, unless it's through redeployment. Non ETB secondary schools are all independent of each other, with their own individual teacher allocation.

With the ETB, they are your employer not the school, hence being able to carry your CID with you.

rainbowtrout

gaiscioch wrote: »

Interesting. I know somebody in a non-ETB school who, by virtue of their CID, will be redeployed in the foreseeable future but have decided they'd like to apply for jobs before that simply because they'd rather choose their school than have the Department's two Redeployment directors choose it for them. Having read this it seems like quite a risk, even if doing so makes sense at another level.

I suppose it depends on how stable the new job appears to be, if they are offered one. Some teachers wouldn't be able to take the risk (mortgage, kids etc).

inatissy

Yeah I had a CID and gave it up which may have seemed a bit crazy at the time, but after 6-7 years I decided that being stuck on low hours and teaching everything but what I wanted to, it just wasn't worth it.


Anyway, just wondering does anyone know, I started teaching in another school in November 2013,I'm in the same school this year. Since I missed Sept and Oct does that disqualify me from a CID this year and then stuck doing a 3rd year?

Thanks.

chases0102

Folks,

Someone might be able to help me out regarding clarity - I have been onto Union but their advice has been sporadic at best!!

In my second year covering a career break. Teacher is coming back in September. There is potential job in the school for September in my subjects, but hasn't been made clear yet by ETB.

Query is, if, by some chance, I retain a job in my current school but on different hours, am I entitled to CID?

Failing that, am I entitled to anything?!?!

Thanks folks.

rainbowtrout

chases0102 wrote: »

Folks,

Someone might be able to help me out regarding clarity - I have been onto Union but their advice has been sporadic at best!!

In my second year covering a career break. Teacher is coming back in September. There is potential job in the school for September in my subjects, but hasn't been made clear yet by ETB.

Query is, if, by some chance, I retain a job in my current school but on different hours, am I entitled to CID?

Failing that, am I entitled to anything?!?!

Thanks folks.

I would say yes. Two consecutive contracts entitle you to cid. The cid would be based on hours in second year.

mirrorwall14

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I would say yes. Two consecutive contracts entitle you to cid. The cid would be based on hours in second year.

Would it not depend on whether they are retrospectively applying the new rules to old career break contracts? Those two years were not CIDable at the time and the changes to future career breaks haven't been applied yet ASFAIK. I suspect that's why the union are unsure

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Would it not depend on whether they are retrospectively applying the new rules to old career break contracts? Those two years were not CIDable at the time and the changes to future career breaks haven't been applied yet ASFAIK. I suspect that's why the union are unsure

Under old cid rules hours covered belonging to other teachers could be counted for could be counted for cod once they weren't in the final year of cid eligibility

powera24

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for some advise here for my wife, she is quite upset about being refused a CID.
Her story is that she is working 4 continuous years for the ETB (few more years previously in VEC). the last 3 years in the ETB have been in the same school on a contract covering secondment(the teacher went to do home school liaison). Each year she has received a new contract stating she was covering seconment - all 3 contracts were the same except the amount of hours she was contracted for.

So when the recent circular 0024/15 came about she applied for her CID thinking she would get it no problem but was told this week that she was refused because the positon of home school liaison was not a secondment position.

To me it seems very unfair that the ETB will not honor the fact that she was given a contract thats states she is covering secondment - but are now saying - actually its not a secondment position. She is considering going legal and i'm looking to see if there is any stand out reasons why the CTB is right in this situation.

Thanks for your help

mirrorwall14

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Under old cid rules hours covered belonging to other teachers could be counted for could be counted for cod once they weren't in the final year of cid eligibility

Oh sorry mis interpreted, poster still needs to get their own contract in their own hours this year to be CIDable

mirrorwall14

powera24 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I'm looking for some advise here for my wife, she is quite upset about being refused a CID.
Her story is that she is working 4 continuous years for the ETB (few more years previously in VEC). the last 3 years in the ETB have been in the same school on a contract covering secondment(the teacher went to do home school liaison). Each year she has received a new contract stating she was covering seconment - all 3 contracts were the same except the amount of hours she was contracted for.

So when the recent circular 0024/15 came about she applied for her CID thinking she would get it no problem but was told this week that she was refused because the positon of home school liaison was not a secondment position.

To me it seems very unfair that the ETB will not honor the fact that she was given a contract thats states she is covering secondment - but are now saying - actually its not a secondment position. She is considering going legal and i'm looking to see if there is any stand out reasons why the CTB is right in this situation.

Thanks for your help

I'm not sure if I'm reading you right. Is the teacher out on secondment the home school liaison for the school your wife is working in? If that's the case it's possible that the position has disappeared while the secondment has been ongoing

powera24

Yes the teacher on secondment is acting as home school liaison in the same school. I understand that the position of home school liaison may not be a secondment position but my wife has 3 consecutive contracts where it clearly states she is covering secondment.

rainbowtrout

powera24 wrote: »

Yes the teacher on secondment is acting as home school liaison in the same school. I understand that the position of home school liaison may not be a secondment position but my wife has 3 consecutive contracts where it clearly states she is covering secondment.

I would say tell your wife to contact her union to get advice. That is what they are there for. Particularly if her contracts state 'secondment' on them.

powera24

My wife has an issue with the unions (previously let her down) and is no longer a member. So if we follow up on this it will be through our solicitor. I think she has a case but she wants other opinions before she goes down that road.

rainbowtrout

powera24 wrote: »

My wife has an issue with the unions (previously let her down) and is no longer a member. So if we follow up on this it will be through our solicitor. I think she has a case but she wants other opinions before she goes down that road.

Well if you are tackling it through your solicitor, it would be useful to bring the most recent circulars with you and have a look for labour court cases surrounding CIDs and print out the findings as well. I would say that most teachers bringing cases end up doing so through their union, so perhaps not all solicitors would be familiar with the circulars etc. Bringing them with you would probably save some time.

mirrorwall14

Definitely make sure that your solicitor knows something about teaching because there is a lot of circulars and you could end up paying their research essentially as they try to get up to speed.

Is there any more detail on her contract apart from the word 'secondment'?

rainbowtrout

I have today's TUI magazine in front of me. From Page 8 under 'What is an objective ground? ' it says

Under CL 24/15, covering for a teacher on career break or secondment is no longer considered to be an objective ground for not awarding a CID. Therefore, a teacher, all of whose hours are for the purposes of covering for a teacher on career break (or secondment) acquires an entitlement to a CID following 'a period of continuous employment in excess of two years' in those hours.

I think the fact that the word secondment was used in the contract strengthens your wife's case.


A teacher in my school was turned down for a transfer. The ad for various subjects for our ETB came out this week along with her rejection. Her subjects were on the list. She rang enquiring, they said they were just forming a panel. She asked if she could transfer to one of those jobs if they came up. She was told she would have to apply for the job like everyone else and that she would lose her CID if she took the job, which is bull. I am very distrustful of our ETB.

powera24

Yes i agree that due to the wording of her contract she would have a strong case. I will get her to bring the 3 copies of her contract and the circulars to the solicitor for advice.

Besides the details of the contract she is working as a teacher for 10 years and its about time she gets some permanent! The school have already told her that she will definately be offered hours next year as she has become a valuable member of the staff - but she deserves more then a rolling promise at this stage. The staff has a number of non qualified teachers fulfilling full time teaching positions, this is something the ETB needs to sort out

Janey B

I started year 1 of an RPT contract last September. I understand with the new circular that the hours have to be advertised and interviews arranged etc. and am fine with that. However, today I received a letter stating that due to the new circular my contract will expire at the end of the school year on May 29th!! This was news to me, no pay during the summer!!! I checked my contract and the termination date states August 31st. Does this new circular 24/2015 now mean that all teachers who started RPT contracts last September now won't get paid during the summer, contrary to what is stated in the their employment contract??? Surely this can not be. I have had contracts in schools before this and have always been paid during the summer. Do people realise the new circular will affect them in this way? I was so upset to learn I won't be getting paid this summer. Unbelievable!

inatissy

Well then they will have to pay our holiday at the end in bulk. But they have yo pay holiday pay, they have taken a percentage out of our hourly rate.

rainbowtrout

Janey B wrote: »

I started year 1 of an RPT contract last September. I understand with the new circular that the hours have to be advertised and interviews arranged etc. and am fine with that. However, today I received a letter stating that due to the new circular my contract will expire at the end of the school year on May 29th!! This was news to me, no pay during the summer!!! I checked my contract and the termination date states August 31st. Does this new circular 24/2015 now mean that all teachers who started RPT contracts last September now won't get paid during the summer, contrary to what is stated in the their employment contract??? Surely this can not be. I have had contracts in schools before this and have always been paid during the summer. Do people realise the new circular will affect them in this way? I was so upset to learn I won't be getting paid this summer. Unbelievable!

I wasn't aware of that. Just looked at the circular.

(6) Termination of First Fixed-Term Contracts
All first fixed-term contracts must be terminated at the end of the school year and if the
employment is continuing for the following year, it must be automatically re-advertised by the
employer and a new recruitment process undertaken for the filling of the post for the second
year. Therefore, the employer must terminate the contract and cannot provide a new fixed term
contract to any teacher unless it advertises and interviews first.

I understand the contract termination, but I don't understand why a teacher can't be paid for the summer holidays in the first year.

mirrorwall14

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that. Just looked at the circular.



I understand the contract termination, but I don't understand why a teacher can't be paid for the summer holidays in the first year.

Ya the wording definitely suggests all first time contracts are to be terminated at the end of the school year but man that is hard on part timers. A huge saving to the dept though if true and legal. Surely someone will challenge that ?


I'd get onto the union tbh!

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Ya the wording definitely suggests all first time contracts are to be terminated at the end of the school year but man that is hard on part timers. A huge saving to the dept though if true and legal. Surely someone will challenge that ?


I'd get onto the union tbh!

Particularly if the contract was issued to run to 31st August, like the example above. It should be honoured, even if the OP does have to re-interview.

Janey B

My difficulty is I don't want to ruffle any feathers before re-interviewing!! But, it is a lot of money not to be getting especially without much notice!

mirrorwall14

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Particularly if the contract was issued to run to 31st August, like the example above. It should be honoured, even if the OP does have to re-interview.

I agree. However in the case like I originally posted there's four jobs rolling into one in our school this summer for example. They should all have their contracts honoured for the summer and the new larger one kick in at the end of August like always

awny

Was the letter sent by the Department or an ETB?

wolfyboy555

Does anyone have any experience of not getting their contracts by this stage of the year? It happens every year with our ETB but usually we get them just after Easter. I think the Ward report has meant they are getting their ducks in a row before they give our contracts but aren't we supposed to have had our contracts last November?

Bobsammy

I've just double checked the letter I got from my ETB and it says something along the lines of in accordance will circular number whatever . . . the contract will be terminated on August 31st and advised me of the closing date for applications.

mirrorwall14

wolfyboy555 wrote: »

Does anyone have any experience of not getting their contracts by this stage of the year? It happens every year with our ETB but usually we get them just after Easter. I think the Ward report has meant they are getting their ducks in a row before they give our contracts but aren't we supposed to have had our contracts last November?

Our ETB didn't issue contracts until we were back at school last year!

inatissy

As far as I remember, legally its 8% that everyone is entitled to for summer pay. Had an issue once with a summer job and they're weren't paying it to me, but they had to in the end.