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Reunification Question
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If we took that attitude we would never have broken free of England's rule.
No, there were clear economic, social and political rationales for us reaching for our freedom, not the least of which was completing the land reforms.The Scottish are a dour, miserable people who took English money over national self determination. Again we should be thankful such arguments were ignored in Ireland.
OK :rolleyes:Why would mortgages be in the currency of a foreign country?
.....because the banks issued the mortgages in sterling and there's no way they'll take on the uncertainty of re-denominating them in Euros. If you want to see what happens when you're mortgage is one currency, but your salary is in a different one - have a look at what happening in Poland with the Swiss Franc mortgages.
Any mortgages after unification will likely (almost certainly be in Euros) but for the first few years there'll be a lot of households paying off sterling mortgages in Yoyos.We'd have an expanded workforce to pay for more seniors.
won't we have more seniors
the median age of NI's population is 37, % under 16 is 21% and % over 65 is 15% - those figures are from the 2011 census and all increased since the 2001 census, with the exception of the under 16 figure which declined - in other words their population is ageing.
Our 2011 figures are 21% under 14, 12% over 65 and median age 35.Massive top down bureaucracies don't work so hopefully we'd see the elimination of both.
We don't have a massive top down bureaucracy in this country - in fact we've one of leanest public administrations in the OECD - in contrast to the UK - are we going to keep paying for that? Or do we take the hit and pay them off with redundancies?There would be no PSNI in a UI.
I didn't say there would - I asked if the new police force would be armed or not?
But you raise an interesting point - will the PSNI be absorbed into AGS?Property taxes will have to go up in the Republic anyway. And the North pays for its water through rates.
So will property taxes in a UI increase to NI levels and the water charge will go?
Increasing taxes? That'll get the electorate to vote for unification!Anyway, all penny pinching rubbish. National self-determination is seldom based on economics, if it was we'd still be part of the UK.
Maybe, but this isn't the early 20th century - we're now a property owning democracy and if those simple questions can't be answered, good luck getting people to vote for a UI on either side of the border.0 -
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If the RoI is in an "utterly decrepit state" then I can only imagine what words you would use to describe N.I.. I await your response to Jawgap's questions with bated breath.
Also, can you give an indication on how you would handle the anthem and the flag. I'm sure you would agree that the AnF and the tri-colour are not suitable in such a context.
That sounds like a winner with the RoI electorate alright.
According to the NI rates calculator a bill for a similar house to the one I own at the moment, in the Belfast area, would be stg£2140 or just over €3000.....
That's about triple what I pay in LPT and water charges!
Sounds like a winner alright
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I provided answer's above.
So? The British community will NEVER accept a UI so if, or rather when the border question is approved in the North it will be because the Irish community has reached a majority in the statelet. The "tricolour" (or flag of Ireland to normal people) and national anthem are entirely suitable and don't need changing.
The Irish people seem to want a Nordic style welfare state without Nordic levels of taxation. Something is going to have to give but one thign is for sure, an American style private health "market" is no longer acceptable in this country and we are going to have to introduce some sort of government sponsored universal health insurance if we are to mature as a nation. Same with education provision, child care, third level access, pensions, etc.
Actually, the Ulster Life survey run by the BT showed that even in the nationalist community only 55% would vote for a UI - it would be a mistake to suggest that all nationalists would automatically vote for a UI -
The people of Northern Ireland want a border poll referendum (left) - but there is still no significant appetite for a united Ireland (right). *Total excludes no opinion/no vote0 -
No, there were clear economic, social and political rationales for us reaching for our freedom, not the least of which was completing the land reforms.
The argument was frequently made that staying in the UK would have been better economically for Ireland, especially when you consider how much of an economic basketcase the Republic was right up until the early 90's......because the banks issued the mortgages in sterling and there's no way they'll take on the uncertainty of re-denominating them in Euros. If you want to see what happens when you're mortgage is one currency, but your salary is in a different one - have a look at what happening in Poland with the Swiss Franc mortgages.
Any mortgages after unification will likely (almost certainly be in Euros) but for the first few years there'll be a lot of households paying off sterling mortgages in Yoyos.
Are people still paying off mortgages in Punts?won't we have more seniorsthe median age of NI's population is 37, % under 16 is 21% and % over 65 is 15% - those figures are from the 2011 census and all increased since the 2001 census, with the exception of the under 16 figure which declined - in other words their population is ageing.
Our 2011 figures are 21% under 14, 12% over 65 and median age 35.
Ireland as a whole has one of the youngest population's in Europe so paying for retired pensioners won't be a problem.We don't have a massive top down bureaucracy in this country - in fact we've one of leanest public administrations in the OECD - in contrast to the UK - are we going to keep paying for that? Or do we take the hit and pay them off with redundancies?
Good god, really? The HSE is a massive, bloated inefficient organisation that suffers from chronic mismanagement and ballooning costs; which is why FG were originally committed to abolishing the super quango. The NHS is considered sacred in Britain but remember, it doesn't exist in the North, instead called Health and Social Care and administrated by five separate health boards, similar to the Republic's health system before the merger of the health boards into the HSE behemoth.
Also you should be aware that the Tories are committed to slashing public spending and services across the UK, including Northern Ireland, as well as seeking the elimination of the Barnet Formula. So whatever Stormont receives in taxes will be what it spends, ie, no top ups from Whitehall. By the time a UI is supported in the North they will have a much more leaner public service.I didn't say there would - I asked if the new police force would be armed or not?
Why would it need to be? The Troubles are over and apart from dissos and a few loyalist headbangers crime and violence in the North is no worse than the Republic or Britain.But you raise an interesting point - will the PSNI be absorbed into AGS?
Most likely unless there is some sort of federalisation that is part of a UI. But given the small size of Ireland it wouldn't make much sense to have two distinct police forces.So will property taxes in a UI increase to NI levels and the water charge will go?
Maybe. It depends on what state the public services in Northern Ireland will be compared to the rest of Ireland. Personally I would support increased tax raising powers for local authorities. So if Co. Antrim in a UI wished to maintain existing levels of public services they could opt to maintain higher property taxes compared to other counties in Ireland.Increasing taxes? That'll get the electorate to vote for unification!
Unless the unification treaty was incredibly one sided, overly favourable to the Northern six counties joining the Republic and imposed massive increased taxes on the other 26 counties it's extremely unlikely we'd reject unification.Maybe, but this isn't the early 20th century - we're now a property owning democracy and if those simple questions can't be answered, good luck getting people to vote for a UI on either side of the border.
Well it's kind of hard to answer hypothetical questions on what a UI would look like when successive Irish Governments have flatly refused to engage in any meaningful debate on the subject.
SF led governments in Dublin and Belfast would see much more discussion and awareness of what a UI would entail. FFGLAB, while not opposed to a UI in theory, simply don't care enough to push the case for it either.0 -
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Actually, the Ulster Life survey run by the BT showed that even in the nationalist community only 55% would vote for a UI - it would be a mistake to suggest that all nationalists would automatically vote for a UI -
That pie chart would appear to prove the opposite where 40% of respondents would vote for a UI either now or at some point in the future. This matches up nearly perfectly with the Nationalist community in the North. The Irish community in the North aren't one monolithic bloc who would 100% support a UI but they are certainly more open and sympathetic to the notion. And if a detailed and comprehensive proposal for a UI is proposed that can demonstrate how better off the people of NI would be in a unified Ireland then you would see quite strong support for a UI from the Irish community.
Nobody is expecting a UI to take place any time soon so these next few years will provide ample opportunity for governments on both sides of the border to increasingly harmonise and align laws, regulations and practice's with each other so that when UI is eventually supported by a majority in the North it can be implemented as smoothly as possible. But as long as Uber West Brits like FG/LAB are allowed to remain in power a united Ireland remains as far away as ever.0 -
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Actually, the Ulster Life survey run by the BT showed that even in the nationalist community only 55% would vote for a UI - it would be a mistake to suggest that all nationalists would automatically vote for a UI -
Thats actually pretty encouraging. Prior to the 18 month long national debate support for scottish independence stood at well below 30% rising to 45 by polling day when actual plans were laid out and discussions had. According to that we'd be starting off with 40% leaning towards reunification right off the bat. Whatever the outcome, it certainly wouldnt be the resounding no predicted by some here.0 -
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where is the evidence our public administration is dysfunctional? there are instances of it failing, but the whole system dysfunctional?
....and what country allows ex-pats to vote that doesn't also require them to pay taxes, even if resident abroad? We may not let the ex-pats vote in parliamentary elections, but neither do we insist on them paying taxes here, the way the US does with their citizens.
How does that make them 'west Brits'?
Can you provide an example of these polls (that show most Irish people support unification)?
France allows expats to elect representatives to its parliament.
And.....Given the large number with no opinion on the subject it is interesting to note that 69 per cent of people say they would still favour a united Ireland even if they had to pay more in taxation to support it. Just 20 per cent said they would not favour unity in those circumstances while 11 per cent had no opinion.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/republic-takes-more-relaxed-approach-to-dual-identity-across-the-border-1.557219
Whoops! I, and most other Irish people support a UI, even if it means paying more taxes. You lost. 0 -
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France allows expats to elect representatives to its parliament.
And.....
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/republic-takes-more-relaxed-approach-to-dual-identity-across-the-border-1.557219
Whoops! I, and most other Irish people support a UI, even if it means paying more taxes. You lost.
Thanks, I don't see it as winning or losing.
The tax thing is interesting - I wonder how soft the figure is? As in, once figures start getting bandied about how will it be affected? It would be interesting to find out.
I'd also be interested in seeing who made the economic argument for us staying in the UK - being a bit of a student of economic history
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Thanks, I don't see it as winning or losing.
The tax thing is interesting - I wonder how soft the figure is? As in, once figures start getting bandied about how will it be affected? It would be interesting to find out.
I'd also be interested in seeing who made the economic argument for us staying in the UK - being a bit of a student of economic history
Unionists made that argument. And considering the higher standards of living between the Republic and North for years it could reasonably be said that the 26 counties should have stayed put given all the decades of minimal growth and large scale emigration.0 -
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