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denis o brien takes out yet another high court action, this time against RTE/Pravda

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    #212
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    stan larsen wrote: »
    But I thought you say no issue with the judge? He is either interpreting the law impartially or he is not?


    And what makes you think that any of this was part of the discussion before the high court? If the judge ruled in O’Brien’s favour that the matter was not one of public interest (noseyness maybe :) )and you accept the bona fides of the judge, then what exactly are you taking exception to?

    I'm taking exception to the fact a judge recently promoted to his high court position seems to think the actual owners of the IBRC are not entitled to see the favourable deals we're paying for the richest man in Ireland, who happens to be a known briber and tax exile


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    #213
    stan larsen
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭stan larsen


    renegademaster wrote: »
    I'm taking exception to the fact a judge recently promoted to his high court position ....
    So now you're hinting that there is a question mark about his propriety? Or maybe his competence?
    renegademaster wrote: »
    .... seems to think the actual owners of the IBRC are not entitled to see the favourable deals we're paying for the richest man in Ireland, who happens to be a known briber and tax exile
    You don't know that any of this was at issue at all.

    But assuming, as you are determined to do, that it was, what is your explanation for the judges' decision in favour of Denis O'Brien?


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    #214
    bmm
    Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭bmm


    stan larsen wrote: »
    So where is the corruption in relation to this case?

    How about an individual using his ill gotten gains to muzzle the free press !!


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    #215
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,768 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    stan larsen wrote: »
    So now you're hinting that there is a question mark about his propriety? Or maybe his competence?


    You don't know that any of this was at issue at all.

    But assuming, as you are determined to do, that it was, what is your explanation for the judges' decision in favour of Denis O'Brien?

    Who is "Uncle Denis" connected to?
    Who appoints the judges?

    In isolation you could just view it as a bad judgement, but given the individual in question's history (as investigated by a Tribunal), coupled with the influence he holds over the media (even the outlets he doesn't own) and the FG party it's not surprising questions are being asked given the circumstances and sums involved.

    Bottom line, FG & Denis O'Brien are a danger to the (supposed) democracy of this country in the same way as FF and their Galway Tent are.


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    #216
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Who is "Uncle Denis" connected to?
    Who appoints the judges?

    In isolation you could just view it as a bad judgement, but given the individual in question's history (as investigated by a Tribunal), coupled with the influence he holds over the media (even the outlets he doesn't own) and the FG party it's not surprising questions are being asked given the circumstances and sums involved.

    Bottom line, FG & Denis O'Brien are a danger to the (supposed) democracy of this country in the same way as FF and their Galway Tent are.

    Your wasting your time!

    The pro Denis o Brien posters on here obviously have a vested interest in the cosy relationship between Fine Gael and Denis O Brien continuing!


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    #217
    stan larsen
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭stan larsen


    bmm wrote: »
    How about an individual using his ill gotten gains to muzzle the free press !!

    Denis O’Brien succeeded in his high court challenge. He could only have done that (no matter what his gains or how he acquired them) if

    1. In this instance, the law is on his side
    2. The judge is unduly and improperly siding with him.

    I asked a poster asked if # 2 is the case. He appeared (!) to suggest that he didn’t think so. (I certainly don’t).

    Which kinda leaves # 1. Or is there a number 3 that I’m missing?


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    #218
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    stan larsen wrote: »
    Denis O’Brien succeeded in his high court challenge. He could only have done that (no matter what his gains or how he acquired them) if

    1. In this instance, the law is on his side
    2. The judge is unduly and improperly siding with him.

    I asked a poster asked if # 2 is the case. He appeared (!) to suggest that he didn’t think so. (I certainly don’t).

    Which kinda leaves # 1. Or is there a number 3 that I’m missing?

    That's it, I'm out, you obviously have the horn for dinny and live in a rose tinted world where the uber rich, globally corrupt can and/or do no wrong.


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    #219
    michael999999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    renegademaster wrote: »
    That's it, I'm out, you obviously have the horn for dinny and live in a rose tinted world where the uber rich, globally corrupt can and/or do no wrong.

    Or has a vested interest in fine Gael giving there sugar daddy Denis massive contracts!


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    #220
    falan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    renegademaster wrote:
    That's it, I'm out, you obviously have the horn for dinny and live in a rose tinted world where the uber rich, globally corrupt can and/or do no wrong.


    If you think uncle dinnys bad then check out the rothchild family wealth. ..absolutely vile creatures when you read up about them.


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    #221
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    falan wrote: »
    If you think uncle dinnys bad then check out the rothchild family wealth. ..absolutely vile creatures when you read up about them.

    They'll be the ruination of us all, their bubble has to burst sometime


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    #222
    HandsomeDan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    I would normally say so what, but this guy has been caught bribing ministers before. He has a history of corruption and this is just the stuff we know about.


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    #223
    JillyQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭JillyQ


    HandsomeDan wrote: »
    I would normally say so what, but this guy has been caught bribing ministers before. He has a history of corruption and this is just the stuff we know about.

    do you have proof of a conviction


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    #224
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    What does he not want us to know ?


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    #225
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    JillyQ wrote: »
    do you have proof of a conviction

    We have proof of a tribunal finding by a judge which, because of a messed up legal system, cannot lead to a trial let alone a conviction.


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    #226
    HandsomeDan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    JillyQ wrote: »
    do you have proof of a conviction

    He bribed Michael Lowry in order to get his Esat licence. This was a finding of the Moriarty Tribunal.

    The man is corrupt. That is obvious for anybody to see.


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    #227
    falan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    JillyQ wrote: »
    do you have proof of a conviction
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    We have proof of a tribunal finding by a judge which, because of a messed up legal system, cannot lead to a trial let alone a conviction.
    HandsomeDan wrote: »
    He bribed Michael Lowry in order to get his Esat licence. This was a finding of the Moriarty Tribunal.

    The man is corrupt. That is obvious for anybody to see.

    The former Israeli prime minister was jailed yesterday for corruption while all these criminals walk free...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/25/ehud-olmert-sentence-8-months-corruption_n_7434166.html


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    #228
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,659 ✭✭✭54and56


    falan wrote: »
    The former Israeli prime minister was jailed yesterday for corruption while all these criminals walk free...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/25/ehud-olmert-sentence-8-months-corruption_n_7434166.html

    You are only a criminal if you've received a criminal conviction. What criminals are you referring to exactly?


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    #229
    HandsomeDan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    You are only a criminal if you've received a criminal conviction. What criminals are you referring to exactly?

    Figure of speach. Nobody is claiming he's a convict, just that he's corrupt, which he demonstrably is.

    why do you care? Is he a pal of yours?


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    #230
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,928 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Ireland is corrupt....denis is just availing of the perks associated with corruption


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    #231
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,659 ✭✭✭54and56


    HandsomeDan wrote: »
    Figure of speach. Nobody is claiming he's a convict, just that he's corrupt, which he demonstrably is.
    He probably did bribe Lowry. In an ideal world (Nirvana) he shouldn't have but he broke the rules to gain a commercial advantage and personal financial rewarded.

    Pretty much everyone I know has broken one rule or other in their personal or work life, whether it's claiming overtime they didn't do, dossing on the job when they are supposed to be working or claiming social welfare benefits they aren't entitled to e.g. lone parent allowances when they are actually shacked up with the father of the child etc. They are all "criminals" as defined by your figure of speech although they haven't been convicted.

    DOB just broke a bigger rule for bigger gain. Most people on this thread are standing in a glass house spouting faux rage whilst throwing stones - hilarious.

    Kind of reminds me of when Winston Churchill says to his dinner companion, "Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?"

    The woman responds, "My goodness, Mr. Churchill. I suppose I would."

    Churchill replies, "Would you sleep with me for five pounds?"

    She answers, "Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?"

    Churchill answers, "Madam, we've already established that. Now we are haggling about the price."
    HandsomeDan wrote: »
    why do you care? Is he a pal of yours?
    Not at all but I wouldn't decline to be his friend if the opportunity arose, just as I'm friends with lot's of (to use a figure of speech) "criminals" who have broken smaller rules for smaller personal gain.


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    #232
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    ^^^^^^^^^
    Hahahahaha!!!!!!


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    #233
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    He probably did bribe Lowry. In an ideal world (Nirvana) he shouldn't have but he broke the rules to gain a commercial advantage and personal financial rewarded.


    We are supposed to receive the highest standards from our politicians.
    We are not getting that. Cronyism is actually increasing despite Enda's promise to eliminate it.


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    #234
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    Pretty much everyone I know has broken one rule or other in their personal or work life

    [...]

    Not at all but I wouldn't decline to be his friend if the opportunity arose, just as I'm friends with lot's of (to use a figure of speech) "criminals"

    Well that just goes to show the type of person you are.

    Not sure why you're using it as reasoning against why others should be critical of O'Brien or his practices.


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    #235
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,659 ✭✭✭54and56


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    He probably did bribe Lowry. In an ideal world (Nirvana) he shouldn't have but he broke the rules to gain a commercial advantage and personal financial rewarded.


    We are supposed to receive the highest standards from our politicians.
    We are not getting that. Cronyism is actually increasing despite Enda's promise to eliminate it.

    2 points:

    1.


    Watch from 3:58

    Don't be naive, politicians of all variety's have always been corrupt and will always be prone to corruption. They have power (or access to power) and are human. Some will always succumb to putting their own gain ahead of the people they represent.

    2. How are you measuring the increase in Cronyism under this Govt? Are you seriously suggesting these guys are even in the same league as FF??


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    #236
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,161 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    shedweller wrote: »
    ^^^^^^^^^
    Hahahahaha!!!!!!

    I had the opportunity to do some research for a business last year. It was because Dennis had approached them and was thinking about buying them. They said at the beginning though that they didn't actually want to do business with him, it's just that he was the dominant market leader in their industry.

    Very few people out thee will do a deal with him unless they're certain he can make them a fortune.


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    #237
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,659 ✭✭✭54and56


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Well that just goes to show the type of person you are.

    Yes, I'm the type of person who doesn't hold others to standards I don't adhere to myself. Let those who haven't sinned be the first to throw the stone and all that. Can you or anyone else on the moral high ground honestly say you've never gained personally from breaking a rule?
    My name is URL wrote: »
    Not sure why you're using it as reasoning against why others should be critical of O'Brien or his practices.

    Because the others are hypocrites. Does that explain it for you?


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    #238
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,659 ✭✭✭54and56


    Grayson wrote: »
    Very few people out thee will do a deal with him unless they're certain he can make them a fortune.

    What other reasons are there for doing a deal with a prospective buyer?


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    #239
    cajonlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    Can you or anyone else on the moral high ground honestly say you've never gained personally from breaking a rule?

    I (and many, many others) can honestly say I never did and never will put my own interests before that of my country and people.

    Do you honestly not know anyone with personal integrity? People who cannot be bought or sold?

    Jeez. Getting a clear idea at long last what the fcuk is wrong here. Only took me 50 odd years.


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    #240
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Je_suis_Jean wrote: »
    Yes, I'm the type of person who doesn't hold others to standards I don't adhere to myself. Let those who haven't sinned be the first to throw the stone and all that. Can you or anyone else on the moral high ground honestly say you've never gained personally from breaking a rule?



    Because the others are hypocrites. Does that explain it for you?

    I've broken rules in the knowledge that getting caught would get me in trouble.

    You seem to be of the opinion that just because person A breaks a rule/law, that person B should be exempt from criticism or comeuppance as a result.

    Not the soundest of logic really.

    Sure why bother having standards in business and political spheres at all, why bother investigating crimes or corruption. Just because people have been corrupt in the past we should all just suck it up and be quiet whenever anyone shows elements of corruption or criminality? Fcuk that... I'm not going to turn a blind eye when someone tries to steal from me directly, and I won't when it's done indirectly either by someone like O'Brien who benefits from taxpayers money by using his pals in government to do special deals for him.


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    #241
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,659 ✭✭✭54and56


    cajonlardo wrote: »
    I (and many, many others) can honestly say I never did and never will put my own interests before that of my country and people.
    That's not the question I asked you. I said the people on here moaning about DOB getting away with bribing Lowry have all personally gained from breaking the odd rule here and there themselves. He just did it on a bigger scale and that pi$$es people off.

    Even in the failed Communist all for one and one for all states where everyone was supposed to put the greater good ahead of personal gain those entrusted with power always lined their own pockets, gave the best jobs to their family and friends etc. If you think we are living in an ideal world and you are attempting to hold DOB or anyone else to such an impossible standard best of luck, let me know how you get on.
    cajonlardo wrote: »
    Do you honestly not know anyone with personal integrity? People who cannot be bought or sold?
    Yes I do. I personally hold myself to high standards of personal integrity and have declined opportunities to line my own pockets (most recently when a customer offered to pay me a significant amount in cash "off the books" so to speak) but I'm also not a saint and freely admit to having taken advantage of situations that presented themselves in the past. It was always fairly minor stuff but then that's just a matter of scale isn't it?
    cajonlardo wrote: »
    Jeez. Getting a clear idea at long last what the fcuk is wrong here. Only took me 50 odd years.
    Sorry to burst your bubble but it's not a perfect world. That doesn't mean we shouldn't tighten up our tendering processes (to avoid creating opportunities where bribing can win a contract) and we should enact stronger anti graft legislation so there is a real risk that perpetrators who are caught and found guilty will end up doing some real time, that's the only thing which will act as a deterrent.


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