Does the way we treat our elderly make you scared of getting old?

DareGod

We make it through 65 years of hard work and probably a lot of pain, and then we hit 65 and society more or less leaves us to fend for ourselves, at our most vulnerable time, with very little support, help or consideration from society....

And god help you if you're a chronically sick elderly person.

To me that's a horrifying reality check.

Do you think society needs to treat its elderly better?

Are you scared of reaching that age where society throws you on the scrap heap?

Galwayguy35

Pensioners are well looked after in this country, the pension is better than in most other countries.

It's the taxpayer that gets screwed.

fedor.2.

As a group, they are well looked after. What do they want, medals for not dying?

Lollipops23

DareGod wrote: »

]

Are you scared of reaching that age where society throws you on the scrap heap?

I plan on raising any kids I have to respect the elderly and to look after their loved ones.

My granny died at 91, she was much loved and treated very well by her entire family. She lived out her days in a nursing home, purely because none of us could give her the care she needed. My aunt threw out her back lifting her out of bed and almost dropped my granny in the process.

She was looked after by lovely nurses, who she got on with like a house on fire, and had a constant stream of visitors, bringing her the papers and magazines and other bits and bobs that she liked.

If that's how I spend my last days, I'm ok with it.

fat_bob

DareGod wrote: »

We make it through 65 years of hard work and probably a lot of pain, and then we hit 65 and society more or less leaves us to fend for ourselves, at our most vulnerable time, with very little support, help or consideration from society....

And god help you if you're a chronically sick elderly person.

To me that's a horrifying reality check.

Do you think society needs to treat its elderly better?

Are you scared of reaching that age where society throws you on the scrap heap?

which country are you posting from ?

the elderly in ireland are treated better than any other age demographic and are the section of the electorate who the goverment most fears

Degag

Definitely, especially when you see how certain elderly people are preyed upon these days. People in their 80's and 90's being broken into and beaten and robbed and worse.

It makes me mad to see and often times when the thugs who commit the crimes are caught they get off with very light sentences. In my mind one of the worst things you can do in life is prey on the elderly and sentences should be representative of that.

fat_bob

Degag wrote: »

Definitely, especially when you see how certain elderly people are preyed upon these days. People in their 80's and 90's being broken into and beaten and robbed and worse.

It makes me mad to see and often times when the thugs who commit the crimes are caught they get off with very light sentences. In my mind one of the worst things you can do in life is prey on the elderly and sentences should be representative of that.

crimes against the elderly is a seperate issue from how the state treats old people , the state treats the elderly extremely well in ireland

Icepick

Is OP actually joking?
As a group they are the richest and most insulated part of the society.

Turtyturd

Not looking forward to getting old tbh but I will never be a burden on my kids. If I ever get to that stage they can lock me up in the cheapest care home and forget I existed if they want because 99% of people despise doing despite saying otherwise imo.

The expectation some people have that their kids will look after them when they get older is sickening.

fat_bob

Turtyturd wrote: »

Not looking forward to getting old tbh but I will never be a burden on my kids. If I ever get to that stage they can lock me up in the cheapest care home and forget I existed if they want because 99% of people despise doing despite saying otherwise imo.

The expectation some people have that their kids will look after them when they get older is sickening.

nor should anyone under forty as their is no way we will have it as good in thirty years as those who are in their seventies today

There's more to how old people are treated than the financial picture. Many people lack manners and respect when dealing with the elderly, many lack patience and kindness. It's true across the board, but felt harder by the old and isolated. Loneliness is a terrible aspect of old age - of any age - but in old age it's harder to do something about it if your mobility and health are compromised.

I could never begrudge a decent pension to an older person, and I don't consider a comfortable retirement to be cossetting them, it's what they're due after a lifetime of contribution.

Miall108

Well unless you end up like Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino then no getting old is not something to look forward too.

I dread the day the smell of old mans stink is off me

fat_bob

Candie wrote: »

There's more to how old people are treated than the financial picture. Many people lack manners and respect when dealing with the elderly, many lack patience and kindness. It's true across the board, but felt harder by the old and isolated. Loneliness is a terrible aspect of old age - of any age - but in old age it's harder to do something about it if your mobility and health are compromised.

I could never begrudge a decent pension to an older person, and I don't consider a comfortable retirement to be cossetting them, it's what they're due after a lifetime of contribution.

well if you take an objective analysis , most pensioners will draw down far more than they made in PRSI contributions throughout their working life , such has been the increase in the pension since the mid nineties

Turtyturd

Candie wrote: »

There's more to how old people are treated than the financial picture. Many people lack manners and respect when dealing with the elderly, many lack patience and kindness. It's true across the board, but felt harder by the old and isolated. Loneliness is a terrible aspect of old age - of any age - but in old age it's harder to do something about it if your mobility and health are compromised.

I could never begrudge a decent pension to an older person, and I don't consider a comfortable retirement to be cossetting them, it's what they're due after a lifetime of contribution.

Tbf the elderly lack manners and respect dealing with a lot of people, especially children and teenagers.

BoJack Horseman

Candie wrote: »

it's what they're due after a lifetime of contribution.

I wish pensioner transfers were relative to contributions.

It would save hugely for the taxpayer.

Turtyturd

Turtyturd wrote: »

Tbf the elderly lack manners and respect dealing with a lot of people, especially children and teenagers.

I'm sure some do, and that a proportion of those may not be fully aware of it, and I'm sure that the majority aren't rude or disrespectful. That's been my experience anyway.

Personally the people I've noticed to be most intolerant of children or teenagers are adults under 35, most likely childless themselves.

Emsloe

The way they're treated in hospitals makes me scared to be an old person in hospital but I'm not scared of getting old as such.

BoJack Horseman

Emsloe wrote: »

The way they're treated in hospitals

Do staff prey on the elderly?

Degag

fat_bob wrote: »

crimes against the elderly is a seperate issue from how the state treats old people , the state treats the elderly extremely well in ireland

The thread isn't about how the State treats the elderly. It is about how society treats the elderly.

DareGod

Degag wrote: »

The thread isn't about how the State treats the elderly. It is about how society treats the elderly.

Exactly.

I don't remember asking "Is the state pension high enough?"

Kelly06

Emsloe wrote: »

The way they're treated in hospitals makes me scared to be an old person in hospital but I'm not scared of getting old as such.

This, i had the misfortune of spending the day and night in a and e with my mother.

What I saw going on back there really opened my eyes that the system is not really equipped to deal with the elderly at all. I witnessed a woman in her 80's begging for food on a trolley for two or three hours another elderly woman begging to be brought a commode so she could relieve herself. It was horrible.

My own mother was admitted to that hospital that night and over the course of the next two and a half months lost two stone because there was no staff available to feed her at mealtimes. They couldn't handle her dementia in the ward she was in so they sedated her to make her more docile and at times it was horrible to watch.

Thank god we got her out of that hellhole or she would be pushing up daisies now! The staff try their best but they are overwhelmed.

fat_bob

fat_bob wrote: »

well if you take an objective analysis , most pensioners will draw down far more than they made in PRSI contributions throughout their working life , such has been the increase in the pension since the mid nineties

PRSI contributions aren't the only contribution to society a person makes over the course of their lifetime.

Trudiha

My dad is as old fella with terminal cancer. Every single time he sees a medical professional, I'm blown away by the kindness, consideration and compassion with which he is treated. One of his neighbours pops in most days to have a chat with him and his public health nurse more or less begs to give him extra help when she visits every couple of weeks.

He has an occupational pension in addition to his state one but I don't think he'd have to decide between heating and eating if he was living on the state pension.

I like to moan as much as the next miserable cow but I've got nothing to complain about in terms of his medical or social care or the kindness of his community.

BoJack Horseman

Candie wrote: »

PRSI contributions aren't the only contribution to society a person makes over the course of their lifetime.

How much tax must I pay for intangibles?

_Whimsical_

Kelly06 wrote: »

This, i had the misfortune of spending the day and night in a and e with my mother.

What I saw going on back there really opened my eyes that the system is not really equipped to deal with the elderly at all. I witnessed a woman in her 80's begging for food on a trolley for two or three hours another elderly woman begging to be brought a commode so she could relieve herself. It was horrible.

My own mother was admitted to that hospital that night and over the course of the next two and a half months lost two stone because there was no staff available to feed her at mealtimes. They couldn't handle her dementia in the ward she was in so they sedated her to make her more docile and at times it was horrible to watch.

Thank god we got her out of that hellhole or she would be pushing up daisies now! The staff try their best but they are overwhelmed.

I think anyone in ireland who doesn't fear getting old, becoming disabled or ill is mad. As a country we do not care for the most vulnerable. Sure if youre healthy the pension is reasonable and more generous than disability allowance but if your not healthy and strong you are pretty much fecked. If you can't walk to your hospital appointments or youre too ill to walk from a bus stop to the doctor then you have to get taxis, you have to get someone to cut your grass, pay someone to sweep wet leaves out of your garden because you know if you slip on one you're pretty much done for, there a million and one expenses that are intrinsic to being less physically capable than the average healthy strong person. Those costs are completely overlooked in social welfare payments. It's not just the elderly that face those realities though, it's any of us who get ill our have an accident and become disabled. That actually makes up quite a few young people every year. We really do need to start paying heed to those realities because it will happen to us or some one we love someday.

Robsweezie

always protect the young, because you were young once

protect the old, because you're on your way there.

_Whimsical_

Trudiha wrote: »

My dad is as old fella with terminal cancer. Every single time he sees a medical professional, I'm blown away by the kindness, consideration and compassion with which he is treated. One of his neighbours pops in most days to have a chat with him and his public health nurse more or less begs to give him extra help when she visits every couple of weeks.

He has an occupational pension in addition to his state one but I don't think he'd have to decide between heating and eating if he was living on the state pension.

I like to moan as much as the next miserable cow but I've got nothing to complain about in terms of his medical or social care or the kindness of his community.

There are brilliant care programs in place in some areas for cancer patients but less resources are allocated to other conditions like neurological disabilities, cardiac disabilities, autoimmune illnesses. You're experience it's really not the experience of the majority although I am glad your dad has got it and I feel fully deserves it.

dxhound2005

At present there are 5 workers for every pensioner. But by 2050 there will be only 2. The majority of people alive today will live to be over 100. A pensioner couple gets €436 a week (€456 for six months of the year including fuel allowance). Plus medical cards, free travel and free TV licence. Their household would be better off financially than many workers with a mortgage and children.

In the end everything comes down to economics and the astounding increase in longevity is going to change a lot of things in future. If "society" valued people living with dementia in nursing homes for 20 or 30 years into their nineties, the workers looking after them would be on €100K a year.

Day Lewin

If i may respectfully quote

The thread isn't about how the State treats the elderly. It is about how society treats the elderly.

Depends on who you think "society" is...the actions of "The State" are generally manifestations of popular culture and ideals.

Many people still are brought up to treat grandparents, and elders and seniors in general, with great respect. Not ONLY because you'll be old yourself one day, and need some extra care, but because the old have served their time, often in harder times than we have now. They have lessons and wisdom that were hard-won, and worth hearing.

Since they might be frailer, they need and deserve more care - and mostly they get it.
And if you go out of your way to render courtesy to the silver-haired, it is the action of a civilised and humane person that will bring you good luck in the long run.

But by the way, 65 is not really "old". Nowadays many are strong and active right through the 70's...think 80's for really OLD, ok?

Emsloe

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Do staff prey on the elderly?

No, but the elderly are very often unable to speak for themselves and so they can get left behind in terms of care in under-resourced hospitals. My father died in a public hospital recently (he was too sick to be moved to a private hospital) and the level of nursing care, in terms of quantity at least, was shocking.

Those who shout loudest and all that.

DareGod

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I think anyone in ireland who doesn't fear getting old, becoming disabled or ill is mad. As a country we do not care for the most vulnerable. Sure if youre healthy the pension is reasonable and more generous than disability allowance but if your not healthy and strong you are pretty much fecked. If you can't walk to your hospital appointments or youre too ill to walk from a bus stop to the doctor then you have to get taxis, you have to get someone to cut your grass, pay someone to sweep wet leaves out of your garden because you know if you slip on one you're pretty much done for, there a million and one expenses that are intrinsic to being less physically capable than the average healthy strong person. Those costs are completely overlooked in social welfare payments. It's not just the elderly that face those realities though, it's any of us who get ill our have an accident and become disabled. That actually makes up quite a few young people every year. We really do need to start paying heed to those realities because it will happen to us or some one we love someday.

You make a very good point. The OP could be changed to include disabled people not just the elderly. It could happen to any one of us at any time. Imagine finding yourself disabled and having the lack of support from the state or society make your pain and suffering even worse. Sounds absolutely horrible.

When the Sun Hits

I'd hate to be old. It's one of my life ambitions never to reach the traditional age of retirement.

crazygeryy

the elderly are treated well in this country but id say they are terrified of having to go to any A&E in this country as well.

SMJSF

Well, from my experience, a lot of elderly (especially the women) are the rudest, impatient, arrogant humans alive today! They think they should be treated like the queen, BUT then the other side start tutting and screaming "AGEISM".
Like, I'm in the city centre everyday, I use public transport, I spend 107.50 a month to use the bus service, and at least 3 times a week, a member of the blue rinse brigade with her pearl necklace will whack the back of your ankles or legs with the walking stick or use a lot of force to move you out of the way to be the first to get on the bus.

Cold War Kid

I'm not sure which "we"/"society" you mean, OP - I don't know anyone with a sh-t attitude to old people. Why "God help you if you're a chronically sick elderly person"?
The care my recently deceased grandmother received makes me well up, it was so kind and loving and gentle.

Turtyturd wrote: »

If I ever get to that stage they can lock me up in the cheapest care home and forget I existed if they want because 99% of people despise doing despite saying otherwise imo.

"99%"? You cannot speak for people in that way - you simply don't know. Opinion doesn't come into it.

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I think anyone in ireland who doesn't fear getting old, becoming disabled or ill is mad. As a country we do not care for the most vulnerable. Sure if youre healthy the pension is reasonable and more generous than disability allowance but if your not healthy and strong you are pretty much fecked. If you can't walk to your hospital appointments or youre too ill to walk from a bus stop to the doctor then you have to get taxis, you have to get someone to cut your grass, pay someone to sweep wet leaves out of your garden because you know if you slip on one you're pretty much done for, there a million and one expenses that are intrinsic to being less physically capable than the average healthy strong person. Those costs are completely overlooked in social welfare payments. It's not just the elderly that face those realities though, it's any of us who get ill our have an accident and become disabled. That actually makes up quite a few young people every year. We really do need to start paying heed to those realities because it will happen to us or some one we love someday.

How is Ireland any different to other countries in this regard?

I know there are individuals who are arseholes to old people (and anyone they can push around), I know it's hard to be very old, especially if you have no family - but I think people are being unfair on the rest of society on this thread. Most people are not awful to old people.
"Society" is a term that is so, so vague - the people decrying it are also members of that society.

UCDVet

Not at all. I mean, there was a time when being bed ridden would be horrible. But now? Hardly. And by the time I'm old enough for that to be an issue - heck no.

I could already spend 18 hours a day playing immersive video games. Living out virtual lives and loving every minute of it. I can't fathom what it'll be like in 30 or 40 years - probably 3d and super real. I'll have an endless supply of movies, television, books, video games, and other people and I'll be able to do it all from my bed.

I'll just need someone to throw some food at me once and a while. I'm looking forward to it.

Tilly

I absolutely hate elderly bashing and how so many in AH cream themselves doing it. I really hope those of you who do it never get old and have to deal with your types.

Magenta

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I wish pensioner transfers were relative to contributions.

It would save hugely for the taxpayer.

Surely it would mean that elderly women would receive little to no pension?
It's only in the past 30ish years that women have continued to work after getting married.

cajonlardo

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Pensioners are well looked after in this country, the pension is better than in most other countries.

It's the taxpayer that gets screwed.

because no pensioner ever payed taxes.

One eyed Jack

SMJSF wrote: »

Well, from my experience, a lot of elderly (especially the women) are the rudest, impatient, arrogant humans alive today! They think they should be treated like the queen, BUT then the other side start tutting and screaming "AGEISM".
Like, I'm in the city centre everyday, I use public transport, I spend 107.50 a month to use the bus service, and at least 3 times a week, a member of the blue rinse brigade with her pearl necklace will whack the back of your ankles or legs with the walking stick or use a lot of force to move you out of the way to be the first to get on the bus.

They do sound like a rather spritely bunch alright

Ah no, elderly people are great fun, seriously! Do we as a society treat them well with respect and care and all the rest of it? Of course we do.

Sure, you get the odd crank, but if you can't make allowances for that, geez, maybe it's time to examine your own attitude (not you personally SMJ, but people in general).

_Whimsical_

UCDVet wrote: »

Not at all. I mean, there was a time when being bed ridden would be horrible. But now? Hardly. And by the time I'm old enough for that to be an issue - heck no.

I could already spend 18 hours a day playing immersive video games. Living out virtual lives and loving every minute of it. I can't fathom what it'll be like in 30 or 40 years - probably 3d and super real. I'll have an endless supply of movies, television, books, video games, and other people and I'll be able to do it all from my bed.

I'll just need someone to throw some food at me once and a while. I'm looking forward to it.

I hope you aren't a vet and actually responsible for caring for animals.
Being bedridden isn't about staying in bed all day because you can't be bothered getting out. It's about being too sick to put a foot under you. Losing all control of your life, your autonomy, rarely being able to independantly handle your own bodily functions. Games and tv shows and books and visitors are out the window because when you're that ill you're not able to do much,or concentrate much let alone enjoy it.
If you've ever been ill enough to be bedridden or had to watch a loved one in such a position you wouldn't be so glib...although to me it reads more empathy lacking and ignorant than glib tbh.

_Whimsical_

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I'm not sure which "we"/"society" you mean, OP - I don't know anyone with a sh-t attitude to old people. Why "God help you if you're a chronically sick elderly person"?
The care my recently deceased grandmother received makes me well up, it was so kind and loving and gentle.

"99%"? You cannot speak for people in that way - you simply don't know. Opinion doesn't come into it.

How is Ireland any different to other countries in this regard?

I know there are individuals who are arseholes to old people (and anyone they can push around), I know it's hard to be very old, especially if you have no family - but I think people are being unfair on the rest of society on this thread. Most people are not awful to old people.
"Society" is a term that is so, so vague - the people decrying it are also members of that society.

Not sure about other people here mean by society but I meant the structures of society like the health system and the social welfare system. That is "us/we" because we pay for them and we are the people who either place those issues at the top of the political agenda or we don't.
On the whole I don't think the elderly are treated badly as a class... but once ill and disabled, whether old or young, our public institutions do not treat you very well and the public en masse do not advocate for better treatment. Examples would be as fresh as this year when HIQUA found that eldery and disabled people were being horribly abused in care homes here. On return for a follow up assessment in recent month care standards were seen not to have improved. You head down to any A&E any night of the week and check how people are treated due to poor management, lack of funds, and some degree of apathy too. It's not really wide open to opinion, it is fact, though admittedly there are some regions where care is better than others.

One eyed Jack

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Not sure about other people here mean by society but I meant the structures of society like the health system and the social welfare system. That is "us/we" because we pay for them and we are the people who either place those issues at the top of the political agenda or we don't.

Realistically though, "we" don't pay for anything. We pay out taxes, and the government then decides how to distribute that revenue. I'm not meaning to come across as being picky about this, but indeed the amount of times that people come out with nonsense about "we're paying for these people", ehh, no you're not. The Government decides how it's revenue will be allocated.

On the whole I don't think the elderly are treated badly as a class... but once ill and disabled, whether old or young, our public institutions do not treat you very well and the public en masse do not advocate for better treatment. Examples would be as fresh as this year when HIQUA found that eldery and disabled people were being horribly abused in care homes here. On return for a follow up assessment in recent month care standards were seen not to have improved. You head down to any A&E any night of the week and check how people are treated due to poor management, lack of funds, and some degree of apathy too. It's not really wide open to opinion, it is fact, though admittedly there are some regions where care is better than others.

The second part of that sentence highlighted, contradicts the first part. How we treat our elderly is very much open to debate, from both the State provided services point of view, and from a social perspective. This thread though isn't about disabled people or ill people or any of the rest of it. It's solely about how we treat our elder members of society, and tbh you're always going to be able to spot the negative, as it's much easier to focus on than giving people credit for the many, many positive ways in which we focus on treating our elderly members of society with the respect, care and dignity they deserve.

I'm certainly not scared of getting old in this country anyway, there's plenty to look forward to.

Trudiha

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

There are brilliant care programs in place in some areas for cancer patients but less resources are allocated to other conditions like neurological disabilities, cardiac disabilities, autoimmune illnesses. You're experience it's really not the experience of the majority although I am glad your dad has got it and I feel fully deserves it.

You're absolutely right but it goes further than specific medical conditions, services vary wildly in different parts of the country. My mother needed a lot of help during her declining years and every single time I asked for a medical aid or additional help, it was found, however, my cousin in another part of the country who suddenly lost the use of her legs due to illness had to wait weeks for the most basic wheelchair.

Knex*

Candie wrote: »

I'm sure some do, and that a proportion of those may not be fully aware of it, and I'm sure that the majority aren't rude or disrespectful. That's been my experience anyway.

Personally the people I've noticed to be most intolerant of children or teenagers are adults under 35, most likely childless themselves.

Probably the same proportion of folk who are rude to the elderly.

Many, some, whatever word you want to describe the percentage, it doesn't matter.

I'd wager the reason you notice adults under 35 being the most intolerant is because that the demographic you'd have most contact and experience with.

_Whimsical_

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Realistically though, "we" don't pay for anything. We pay out taxes, and the government then decides how to distribute that revenue. I'm not meaning to come across as being picky about this, but indeed the amount of times that people come out with nonsense about "we're paying for these people", ehh, no you're not. The Government decides how it's revenue will be allocated.

Yes the govt allocates money but we the people are in a position to make issues such as health care and provision for certain needy groups a priority in how we vote and what we demand of our politicians. There is the old adage that you get the government,and all of it's policies and spending priorities, that you deserve. It's an old adage because it's true. The fact that you yourself seem oblivious to the realities of these issues is testament to the fact that they are not widely spoken about or covered in the media and are not top of anyone's agenda. Largely because carers,the elderly ,the disabled,the people who know the truth are not in any position in terms of time or energy to mobilise into a coherent political force.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The second part of that sentence highlighted, contradicts the first part. How we treat our elderly is very much open to debate, from both the State provided services point of view, and from a social perspective. This thread though isn't about disabled people or ill people or any of the rest of it. It's solely about how we treat our elder members of society, and tbh you're always going to be able to spot the negative, as it's much easier to focus on than giving people credit for the many, many positive ways in which we focus on treating our elderly members of society with the respect, care and dignity they deserve.

I'm certainly not scared of getting old in this country anyway, there's plenty to look forward to.

Firstly with the first piece highlighted : it's not a contradiction to say that care is generally poor but that it's better in some areas than others. It's a fact.Some illnesses and services related to them get greater funding. Location also matters some hse areas have greater resources and offer much better services.Generally they don't offer better service across the board but some might prioritise care of people with dementia ,others might offer better cardia rehab etc.

With regard to the second piece highlighted to say this thread is about the elderly not the ill or disabled is quite frankly ridiculous. The vast majority of our ill and disabled ARE the elderly. Getting old doesn't just bring with it a wrinkly face and a propensity for carrying boiled sweets in your pocket, it vastly increases your chances of illness and profound disability. Issues related to illness and disability are always going to be hand in hand with care of the elderly.

Ultimately I don't think it's good enough to say oh we treat our elderly well, those who are able for bingo and being out and about are having a great time,lets all give each other a pat on the back about how we are nice to people who need little or no help from us. Lets just push asside the ones that aren't so lucky, who are struggling and suffering and not include them in these discussions. I shudder to think that's now the measure of how well we treat people.

diomed

I'm wondering how many people posting here have experience of the elderly, not 50s or 60s elderly, but people in their 80s and 90s.
It is not year around fun on a big pension. Many lie in bed all day, or sit in chairs all day because they can not walk, or it would be unsafe for them to walk without assistance. They do not listen to the radio, watch television, or read much because they are not able to follow what is going on. Visitors are few, and many call in, stay a few minutes, and rush off.

One eyed Jack

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Yes the govt allocates money but we the people are in a position to make issues such as health care and provision for certain needy groups a priority in how we vote and what we demand of our politicians. There is the old adage that you get the government,and all of it's policies and spending priorities, that you deserve. It's an old adage because it's true. The fact that you yourself seem oblivious to the realities of these issues is testament to the fact that they are not widely spoken about or covered in the media and are not top of anyone's agenda. Largely because carers,the elderly ,the disabled,the people who know the truth are not in any position in terms of time or energy to mobilise into a coherent political force.

You're making one hell of an assumption there really. I just don't happen to share your pessimistic perspective is all.

Firstly with the first piece highlighted : it's not a contradiction to say that care is generally poor but that it's better in some areas than others. It's a fact.Some illnesses and services related to them get greater funding. Location also matters some hse areas have greater resources and offer much better services.Generally they don't offer better service across the board but some might prioritise care of people with dementia ,others might offer better cardia rehab etc.

That's not what I was referring to though. You can't state something is a fact, and then in the next breath introduce conditions that contradict that earlier assertion.

With regard to the second piece highlighted to say this thread is about the elderly not the ill or disabled is quite frankly ridiculous. The vast majority of our ill and disabled ARE the elderly. Getting old doesn't just bring with it a wrinkly face and a propensity for carrying boiled sweets in your pocket, it vastly increases your chances of illness and profound disability. Issues related to illness and disability are always going to be hand in hand with care of the elderly.

I assume you have figures to hand to support that assertion?

Ultimately I don't think it's good enough to say oh we treat our elderly well, those who are able for bingo and being out and about are having a great time,lets all give each other a pat on the back about how we are nice to people who need little or no help from us. Lets just push asside the ones that aren't so lucky, who are struggling and suffering and not include them in these discussions. I shudder to think that's now the measure of how well we treat people.

Nobody is pushing anyone aside. I'm simply saying that as a society, we don't treat our elderly badly as a whole. You seem to want to focus solely on the negatives when there are many, many positives to how our elderly are treated in society.

Chilled lemonlime

I hope to be working until the day I die. No pension for me.

NI24

diomed wrote: »

I'm wondering how many people posting here have experience of the elderly, not 50s or 60s elderly, but people in their 80s and 90s.
It is not year around fun on a big pension. Many lie in bed all day, or sit in chairs all day because they can not walk, or it would be unsafe for them to walk without assistance. They do not listen to the radio, watch television, or read much because they are not able to follow what is going on. Visitors are few, and many call in, stay a few minutes, and rush off.

I used to work in an old folks' home and this is 100% truth. You add in years of widowhood to the mix and it can pretty miserable pretty fast. The age of 60 to 65 seems to be the sweet spot for a lot of people. If I could go at any age, that would probably be it.

John_Rambo

I used to keep an eye out for an elderly Tipperary bachelor that lived in a little old folk apartment complex up the road from me. It all started when I found him after a fall on the ice during that bad snow a few years ago. Used to drop in to him with cake and spend a half an hour with him listening to him talking absolute shlte. He loved kids movies on DVD's, so I picked them up second hand in xtravision (a few years ago!).

He was grumpy, rude and belligerent. But that's the way it goes. Tragically, he had an underlying fear that I was after something. He'd try and show me his bank statements to show he was broke. He was more relaxed when I took my little boy with me, but in the end, his fear and growing anxiety stopped me dropping over. It turned negative.

We've a new victim now. Elderly neighbour. We invite her for dinner, she gets a thorough kick out of a normal family life, dinner, some wine, kids chat etc... her kids are adults but live a distance away and just find it hard to get over to her. They're very appreciative. We basically ignore her most of the time and just get on with our dinner and life. My wife or I will walk her home.

Sometimes that's all that's needed. I like the face that our kids see us do this too.