Does the way we treat our elderly make you scared of getting old?

I'd hate to be old. It's one of my life ambitions never to reach the traditional age of retirement.

Well, from my experience, a lot of elderly (especially the women) are the rudest, impatient, arrogant humans alive today! They think they should be treated like the queen, BUT then the other side start tutting and screaming "AGEISM".
Like, I'm in the city centre everyday, I use public transport, I spend 107.50 a month to use the bus service, and at least 3 times a week, a member of the blue rinse brigade with her pearl necklace will whack the back of your ankles or legs with the walking stick or use a lot of force to move you out of the way to be the first to get on the bus.

SMJSF wrote: »

Well, from my experience, a lot of elderly (especially the women) are the rudest, impatient, arrogant humans alive today! They think they should be treated like the queen, BUT then the other side start tutting and screaming "AGEISM".
Like, I'm in the city centre everyday, I use public transport, I spend 107.50 a month to use the bus service, and at least 3 times a week, a member of the blue rinse brigade with her pearl necklace will whack the back of your ankles or legs with the walking stick or use a lot of force to move you out of the way to be the first to get on the bus.

They do sound like a rather spritely bunch alright

Ah no, elderly people are great fun, seriously! Do we as a society treat them well with respect and care and all the rest of it? Of course we do.

Sure, you get the odd crank, but if you can't make allowances for that, geez, maybe it's time to examine your own attitude (not you personally SMJ, but people in general).

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I'm not sure which "we"/"society" you mean, OP - I don't know anyone with a sh-t attitude to old people. Why "God help you if you're a chronically sick elderly person"?
The care my recently deceased grandmother received makes me well up, it was so kind and loving and gentle.

"99%"? You cannot speak for people in that way - you simply don't know. Opinion doesn't come into it.

How is Ireland any different to other countries in this regard?

I know there are individuals who are arseholes to old people (and anyone they can push around), I know it's hard to be very old, especially if you have no family - but I think people are being unfair on the rest of society on this thread. Most people are not awful to old people.
"Society" is a term that is so, so vague - the people decrying it are also members of that society.

Not sure about other people here mean by society but I meant the structures of society like the health system and the social welfare system. That is "us/we" because we pay for them and we are the people who either place those issues at the top of the political agenda or we don't.
On the whole I don't think the elderly are treated badly as a class... but once ill and disabled, whether old or young, our public institutions do not treat you very well and the public en masse do not advocate for better treatment. Examples would be as fresh as this year when HIQUA found that eldery and disabled people were being horribly abused in care homes here. On return for a follow up assessment in recent month care standards were seen not to have improved. You head down to any A&E any night of the week and check how people are treated due to poor management, lack of funds, and some degree of apathy too. It's not really wide open to opinion, it is fact, though admittedly there are some regions where care is better than others.

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

There are brilliant care programs in place in some areas for cancer patients but less resources are allocated to other conditions like neurological disabilities, cardiac disabilities, autoimmune illnesses. You're experience it's really not the experience of the majority although I am glad your dad has got it and I feel fully deserves it.

You're absolutely right but it goes further than specific medical conditions, services vary wildly in different parts of the country. My mother needed a lot of help during her declining years and every single time I asked for a medical aid or additional help, it was found, however, my cousin in another part of the country who suddenly lost the use of her legs due to illness had to wait weeks for the most basic wheelchair.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Realistically though, "we" don't pay for anything. We pay out taxes, and the government then decides how to distribute that revenue. I'm not meaning to come across as being picky about this, but indeed the amount of times that people come out with nonsense about "we're paying for these people", ehh, no you're not. The Government decides how it's revenue will be allocated.

Yes the govt allocates money but we the people are in a position to make issues such as health care and provision for certain needy groups a priority in how we vote and what we demand of our politicians. There is the old adage that you get the government,and all of it's policies and spending priorities, that you deserve. It's an old adage because it's true. The fact that you yourself seem oblivious to the realities of these issues is testament to the fact that they are not widely spoken about or covered in the media and are not top of anyone's agenda. Largely because carers,the elderly ,the disabled,the people who know the truth are not in any position in terms of time or energy to mobilise into a coherent political force.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The second part of that sentence highlighted, contradicts the first part. How we treat our elderly is very much open to debate, from both the State provided services point of view, and from a social perspective. This thread though isn't about disabled people or ill people or any of the rest of it. It's solely about how we treat our elder members of society, and tbh you're always going to be able to spot the negative, as it's much easier to focus on than giving people credit for the many, many positive ways in which we focus on treating our elderly members of society with the respect, care and dignity they deserve.

I'm certainly not scared of getting old in this country anyway, there's plenty to look forward to.

Firstly with the first piece highlighted : it's not a contradiction to say that care is generally poor but that it's better in some areas than others. It's a fact.Some illnesses and services related to them get greater funding. Location also matters some hse areas have greater resources and offer much better services.Generally they don't offer better service across the board but some might prioritise care of people with dementia ,others might offer better cardia rehab etc.

With regard to the second piece highlighted to say this thread is about the elderly not the ill or disabled is quite frankly ridiculous. The vast majority of our ill and disabled ARE the elderly. Getting old doesn't just bring with it a wrinkly face and a propensity for carrying boiled sweets in your pocket, it vastly increases your chances of illness and profound disability. Issues related to illness and disability are always going to be hand in hand with care of the elderly.

Ultimately I don't think it's good enough to say oh we treat our elderly well, those who are able for bingo and being out and about are having a great time,lets all give each other a pat on the back about how we are nice to people who need little or no help from us. Lets just push asside the ones that aren't so lucky, who are struggling and suffering and not include them in these discussions. I shudder to think that's now the measure of how well we treat people.

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Yes the govt allocates money but we the people are in a position to make issues such as health care and provision for certain needy groups a priority in how we vote and what we demand of our politicians. There is the old adage that you get the government,and all of it's policies and spending priorities, that you deserve. It's an old adage because it's true. The fact that you yourself seem oblivious to the realities of these issues is testament to the fact that they are not widely spoken about or covered in the media and are not top of anyone's agenda. Largely because carers,the elderly ,the disabled,the people who know the truth are not in any position in terms of time or energy to mobilise into a coherent political force.

You're making one hell of an assumption there really. I just don't happen to share your pessimistic perspective is all.

Firstly with the first piece highlighted : it's not a contradiction to say that care is generally poor but that it's better in some areas than others. It's a fact.Some illnesses and services related to them get greater funding. Location also matters some hse areas have greater resources and offer much better services.Generally they don't offer better service across the board but some might prioritise care of people with dementia ,others might offer better cardia rehab etc.

That's not what I was referring to though. You can't state something is a fact, and then in the next breath introduce conditions that contradict that earlier assertion.

With regard to the second piece highlighted to say this thread is about the elderly not the ill or disabled is quite frankly ridiculous. The vast majority of our ill and disabled ARE the elderly. Getting old doesn't just bring with it a wrinkly face and a propensity for carrying boiled sweets in your pocket, it vastly increases your chances of illness and profound disability. Issues related to illness and disability are always going to be hand in hand with care of the elderly.

I assume you have figures to hand to support that assertion?

Ultimately I don't think it's good enough to say oh we treat our elderly well, those who are able for bingo and being out and about are having a great time,lets all give each other a pat on the back about how we are nice to people who need little or no help from us. Lets just push asside the ones that aren't so lucky, who are struggling and suffering and not include them in these discussions. I shudder to think that's now the measure of how well we treat people.

Nobody is pushing anyone aside. I'm simply saying that as a society, we don't treat our elderly badly as a whole. You seem to want to focus solely on the negatives when there are many, many positives to how our elderly are treated in society.

diomed wrote: »

I'm wondering how many people posting here have experience of the elderly, not 50s or 60s elderly, but people in their 80s and 90s.
It is not year around fun on a big pension. Many lie in bed all day, or sit in chairs all day because they can not walk, or it would be unsafe for them to walk without assistance. They do not listen to the radio, watch television, or read much because they are not able to follow what is going on. Visitors are few, and many call in, stay a few minutes, and rush off.

I used to work in an old folks' home and this is 100% truth. You add in years of widowhood to the mix and it can pretty miserable pretty fast. The age of 60 to 65 seems to be the sweet spot for a lot of people. If I could go at any age, that would probably be it.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You're making one hell of an assumption there really. I just don't happen to share your pessimistic perspective is all.

Well, not really. You're claiming I'm being pessimistic, claiming the corollary to my point is true therefore it's pretty safe to assume that you are not a member of any organisation that deals with these issues either for patients or carers or that you haven't seen them first hand in your own life.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That's not what I was referring to though. You can't state something is a fact, and then in the next breath introduce conditions that contradict that earlier assertion.

Of course you can. Reality is always nuanced. Example :India is a poor country, some millionaires live there, certain areas prosper.
In Ireland care is poor, though depending on what area you live and what condition you have your experience may vary. That doesn't mean that everyone, or a majority, even large minority receive good or adequate provision so the initial statement remains true on the whole.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I assume you have figures to hand to support that assertion?

To prove that most of the states ill and disabled are elderly? I thought that would be obvious. I don't have figures to hand no but I suggest you google the following if you'd like to know.
Check numbers of people in residential nursing care in Ireland under 65 vs over 65. Check stroke incidence in over 65s vs under 65s. Do the same for cancers, dementia, heart failure, parkinsons, severe osteoarthritis,osteoporosis...the list could go on but I'm sure by the time you have that much done you'll have a pretty clear picture. You could also check people receiving carers allowance to care for an elderly person rather than a younger person. You could check hospital admissions for older ppl vs under 65s too.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Nobody is pushing anyone aside. I'm simply saying that as a society, we don't treat our elderly badly as a whole. You seem to want to focus solely on the negatives when there are many, many positives to how our elderly are treated in society.

What are these many many positives?
I clearly said in my initial post that being eldery is grand even great if you are fortunate enough to be well but it's another situation if you happen not to be.

You think elderly are OK? may be in some case. You will change your opinion if you will met more of them, some are being in a very poor living conditions, some on a very low income (I met an old wman getting only 8 euro per week pension) and a few on less than 100 euro per week. Some can not survive on their own at all being abandoned by all relatives. I seen a happiness in eyes of one woman and smile on her face when she came to visit her husband in a hospital and was told her husband died at night....

Getting old makes me scared of getting old. I watched my grandmother drift out of this world in a miserable drug addled haze of dementia and alzheimers, f*ck that, take me out back and shoot me.