Does the way we treat our elderly make you scared of getting old?

DareGod · 28-04-2015 06:11PM #1

We make it through 65 years of hard work and probably a lot of pain, and then we hit 65 and society more or less leaves us to fend for ourselves, at our most vulnerable time, with very little support, help or consideration from society....

And god help you if you're a chronically sick elderly person.

To me that's a horrifying reality check.

Do you think society needs to treat its elderly better?

Are you scared of reaching that age where society throws you on the scrap heap?

Galwayguy35 · 28-04-2015 06:16PM

Pensioners are well looked after in this country, the pension is better than in most other countries.

It's the taxpayer that gets screwed.

fedor.2. · 28-04-2015 06:19PM

As a group, they are well looked after. What do they want, medals for not dying?

Lollipops23 · 28-04-2015 06:19PM

DareGod wrote: »

]

Are you scared of reaching that age where society throws you on the scrap heap?

I plan on raising any kids I have to respect the elderly and to look after their loved ones.

My granny died at 91, she was much loved and treated very well by her entire family. She lived out her days in a nursing home, purely because none of us could give her the care she needed. My aunt threw out her back lifting her out of bed and almost dropped my granny in the process.

She was looked after by lovely nurses, who she got on with like a house on fire, and had a constant stream of visitors, bringing her the papers and magazines and other bits and bobs that she liked.

If that's how I spend my last days, I'm ok with it.

fat_bob · 28-04-2015 06:28PM

DareGod wrote: »

We make it through 65 years of hard work and probably a lot of pain, and then we hit 65 and society more or less leaves us to fend for ourselves, at our most vulnerable time, with very little support, help or consideration from society....

And god help you if you're a chronically sick elderly person.

To me that's a horrifying reality check.

Do you think society needs to treat its elderly better?

Are you scared of reaching that age where society throws you on the scrap heap?

which country are you posting from ?

the elderly in ireland are treated better than any other age demographic and are the section of the electorate who the goverment most fears

Degag · 28-04-2015 06:31PM

Definitely, especially when you see how certain elderly people are preyed upon these days. People in their 80's and 90's being broken into and beaten and robbed and worse.

It makes me mad to see and often times when the thugs who commit the crimes are caught they get off with very light sentences. In my mind one of the worst things you can do in life is prey on the elderly and sentences should be representative of that.

fat_bob · 28-04-2015 06:35PM

Degag wrote: »

Definitely, especially when you see how certain elderly people are preyed upon these days. People in their 80's and 90's being broken into and beaten and robbed and worse.

It makes me mad to see and often times when the thugs who commit the crimes are caught they get off with very light sentences. In my mind one of the worst things you can do in life is prey on the elderly and sentences should be representative of that.

crimes against the elderly is a seperate issue from how the state treats old people , the state treats the elderly extremely well in ireland

Icepick · 28-04-2015 06:36PM

Is OP actually joking?
As a group they are the richest and most insulated part of the society.

Turtyturd · 28-04-2015 06:39PM

Not looking forward to getting old tbh but I will never be a burden on my kids. If I ever get to that stage they can lock me up in the cheapest care home and forget I existed if they want because 99% of people despise doing despite saying otherwise imo.

The expectation some people have that their kids will look after them when they get older is sickening.

fat_bob · 28-04-2015 06:41PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Not looking forward to getting old tbh but I will never be a burden on my kids. If I ever get to that stage they can lock me up in the cheapest care home and forget I existed if they want because 99% of people despise doing despite saying otherwise imo.

The expectation some people have that their kids will look after them when they get older is sickening.

nor should anyone under forty as their is no way we will have it as good in thirty years as those who are in their seventies today

28-04-2015 06:49PM

There's more to how old people are treated than the financial picture. Many people lack manners and respect when dealing with the elderly, many lack patience and kindness. It's true across the board, but felt harder by the old and isolated. Loneliness is a terrible aspect of old age - of any age - but in old age it's harder to do something about it if your mobility and health are compromised.

I could never begrudge a decent pension to an older person, and I don't consider a comfortable retirement to be cossetting them, it's what they're due after a lifetime of contribution.

Miall108 · 28-04-2015 06:51PM

Well unless you end up like Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino then no getting old is not something to look forward too.

I dread the day the smell of old mans stink is off me

fat_bob · 28-04-2015 06:53PM

Candie wrote: »

There's more to how old people are treated than the financial picture. Many people lack manners and respect when dealing with the elderly, many lack patience and kindness. It's true across the board, but felt harder by the old and isolated. Loneliness is a terrible aspect of old age - of any age - but in old age it's harder to do something about it if your mobility and health are compromised.

I could never begrudge a decent pension to an older person, and I don't consider a comfortable retirement to be cossetting them, it's what they're due after a lifetime of contribution.

well if you take an objective analysis , most pensioners will draw down far more than they made in PRSI contributions throughout their working life , such has been the increase in the pension since the mid nineties

Turtyturd · 28-04-2015 06:54PM

Candie wrote: »

There's more to how old people are treated than the financial picture. Many people lack manners and respect when dealing with the elderly, many lack patience and kindness. It's true across the board, but felt harder by the old and isolated. Loneliness is a terrible aspect of old age - of any age - but in old age it's harder to do something about it if your mobility and health are compromised.

I could never begrudge a decent pension to an older person, and I don't consider a comfortable retirement to be cossetting them, it's what they're due after a lifetime of contribution.

Tbf the elderly lack manners and respect dealing with a lot of people, especially children and teenagers.

BoJack Horseman · 28-04-2015 06:55PM

Candie wrote: »

it's what they're due after a lifetime of contribution.

I wish pensioner transfers were relative to contributions.

It would save hugely for the taxpayer.

28-04-2015 06:57PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Tbf the elderly lack manners and respect dealing with a lot of people, especially children and teenagers.

I'm sure some do, and that a proportion of those may not be fully aware of it, and I'm sure that the majority aren't rude or disrespectful. That's been my experience anyway.

Personally the people I've noticed to be most intolerant of children or teenagers are adults under 35, most likely childless themselves.

Emsloe · 28-04-2015 06:58PM

The way they're treated in hospitals makes me scared to be an old person in hospital but I'm not scared of getting old as such.

BoJack Horseman · 28-04-2015 07:01PM

Emsloe wrote: »

The way they're treated in hospitals

Do staff prey on the elderly?

Degag · 28-04-2015 07:02PM

fat_bob wrote: »

crimes against the elderly is a seperate issue from how the state treats old people , the state treats the elderly extremely well in ireland

The thread isn't about how the State treats the elderly. It is about how society treats the elderly.

DareGod · 28-04-2015 07:06PM

Degag wrote: »

The thread isn't about how the State treats the elderly. It is about how society treats the elderly.

Exactly.

I don't remember asking "Is the state pension high enough?"

Kelly06 · 28-04-2015 07:15PM

Emsloe wrote: »

The way they're treated in hospitals makes me scared to be an old person in hospital but I'm not scared of getting old as such.

This, i had the misfortune of spending the day and night in a and e with my mother.

What I saw going on back there really opened my eyes that the system is not really equipped to deal with the elderly at all. I witnessed a woman in her 80's begging for food on a trolley for two or three hours another elderly woman begging to be brought a commode so she could relieve herself. It was horrible.

My own mother was admitted to that hospital that night and over the course of the next two and a half months lost two stone because there was no staff available to feed her at mealtimes. They couldn't handle her dementia in the ward she was in so they sedated her to make her more docile and at times it was horrible to watch.

Thank god we got her out of that hellhole or she would be pushing up daisies now! The staff try their best but they are overwhelmed.

28-04-2015 07:18PM

fat_bob wrote: »

well if you take an objective analysis , most pensioners will draw down far more than they made in PRSI contributions throughout their working life , such has been the increase in the pension since the mid nineties

PRSI contributions aren't the only contribution to society a person makes over the course of their lifetime.

Trudiha · 28-04-2015 07:23PM

My dad is as old fella with terminal cancer. Every single time he sees a medical professional, I'm blown away by the kindness, consideration and compassion with which he is treated. One of his neighbours pops in most days to have a chat with him and his public health nurse more or less begs to give him extra help when she visits every couple of weeks.

He has an occupational pension in addition to his state one but I don't think he'd have to decide between heating and eating if he was living on the state pension.

I like to moan as much as the next miserable cow but I've got nothing to complain about in terms of his medical or social care or the kindness of his community.

BoJack Horseman · 28-04-2015 07:24PM

Candie wrote: »

PRSI contributions aren't the only contribution to society a person makes over the course of their lifetime.

How much tax must I pay for intangibles?

_Whimsical_ · 28-04-2015 07:27PM

Kelly06 wrote: »

This, i had the misfortune of spending the day and night in a and e with my mother.

What I saw going on back there really opened my eyes that the system is not really equipped to deal with the elderly at all. I witnessed a woman in her 80's begging for food on a trolley for two or three hours another elderly woman begging to be brought a commode so she could relieve herself. It was horrible.

My own mother was admitted to that hospital that night and over the course of the next two and a half months lost two stone because there was no staff available to feed her at mealtimes. They couldn't handle her dementia in the ward she was in so they sedated her to make her more docile and at times it was horrible to watch.

Thank god we got her out of that hellhole or she would be pushing up daisies now! The staff try their best but they are overwhelmed.

I think anyone in ireland who doesn't fear getting old, becoming disabled or ill is mad. As a country we do not care for the most vulnerable. Sure if youre healthy the pension is reasonable and more generous than disability allowance but if your not healthy and strong you are pretty much fecked. If you can't walk to your hospital appointments or youre too ill to walk from a bus stop to the doctor then you have to get taxis, you have to get someone to cut your grass, pay someone to sweep wet leaves out of your garden because you know if you slip on one you're pretty much done for, there a million and one expenses that are intrinsic to being less physically capable than the average healthy strong person. Those costs are completely overlooked in social welfare payments. It's not just the elderly that face those realities though, it's any of us who get ill our have an accident and become disabled. That actually makes up quite a few young people every year. We really do need to start paying heed to those realities because it will happen to us or some one we love someday.

Robsweezie · 28-04-2015 07:29PM

always protect the young, because you were young once

protect the old, because you're on your way there.

_Whimsical_ · 28-04-2015 07:30PM

Trudiha wrote: »

My dad is as old fella with terminal cancer. Every single time he sees a medical professional, I'm blown away by the kindness, consideration and compassion with which he is treated. One of his neighbours pops in most days to have a chat with him and his public health nurse more or less begs to give him extra help when she visits every couple of weeks.

He has an occupational pension in addition to his state one but I don't think he'd have to decide between heating and eating if he was living on the state pension.

I like to moan as much as the next miserable cow but I've got nothing to complain about in terms of his medical or social care or the kindness of his community.

There are brilliant care programs in place in some areas for cancer patients but less resources are allocated to other conditions like neurological disabilities, cardiac disabilities, autoimmune illnesses. You're experience it's really not the experience of the majority although I am glad your dad has got it and I feel fully deserves it.

dxhound2005 · 28-04-2015 07:41PM

At present there are 5 workers for every pensioner. But by 2050 there will be only 2. The majority of people alive today will live to be over 100. A pensioner couple gets €436 a week (€456 for six months of the year including fuel allowance). Plus medical cards, free travel and free TV licence. Their household would be better off financially than many workers with a mortgage and children.

In the end everything comes down to economics and the astounding increase in longevity is going to change a lot of things in future. If "society" valued people living with dementia in nursing homes for 20 or 30 years into their nineties, the workers looking after them would be on €100K a year.

Day Lewin · 28-04-2015 07:42PM

If i may respectfully quote

The thread isn't about how the State treats the elderly. It is about how society treats the elderly.

Depends on who you think "society" is...the actions of "The State" are generally manifestations of popular culture and ideals.

Many people still are brought up to treat grandparents, and elders and seniors in general, with great respect. Not ONLY because you'll be old yourself one day, and need some extra care, but because the old have served their time, often in harder times than we have now. They have lessons and wisdom that were hard-won, and worth hearing.

Since they might be frailer, they need and deserve more care - and mostly they get it.
And if you go out of your way to render courtesy to the silver-haired, it is the action of a civilised and humane person that will bring you good luck in the long run.

But by the way, 65 is not really "old". Nowadays many are strong and active right through the 70's...think 80's for really OLD, ok?

Emsloe · 28-04-2015 07:51PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Do staff prey on the elderly?

No, but the elderly are very often unable to speak for themselves and so they can get left behind in terms of care in under-resourced hospitals. My father died in a public hospital recently (he was too sick to be moved to a private hospital) and the level of nursing care, in terms of quantity at least, was shocking.

Those who shout loudest and all that.

DareGod · 28-04-2015 07:51PM

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I think anyone in ireland who doesn't fear getting old, becoming disabled or ill is mad. As a country we do not care for the most vulnerable. Sure if youre healthy the pension is reasonable and more generous than disability allowance but if your not healthy and strong you are pretty much fecked. If you can't walk to your hospital appointments or youre too ill to walk from a bus stop to the doctor then you have to get taxis, you have to get someone to cut your grass, pay someone to sweep wet leaves out of your garden because you know if you slip on one you're pretty much done for, there a million and one expenses that are intrinsic to being less physically capable than the average healthy strong person. Those costs are completely overlooked in social welfare payments. It's not just the elderly that face those realities though, it's any of us who get ill our have an accident and become disabled. That actually makes up quite a few young people every year. We really do need to start paying heed to those realities because it will happen to us or some one we love someday.

You make a very good point. The OP could be changed to include disabled people not just the elderly. It could happen to any one of us at any time. Imagine finding yourself disabled and having the lack of support from the state or society make your pain and suffering even worse. Sounds absolutely horrible.

Does the way we treat our elderly make you scared of getting old?

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