Dublin bikes being cycled on the footpath?

Rakish Paddy

Anyone who regularly walks around Dublin city centre is likely quite familiar with dodging people who are cycling Dublin Bikes on the footpath, on pedestrian-only streets, on the pedestrian-only bridge down near the docklands, on Luas platforms and so forth.

It looks like Dublin Bikes celebrated their 10,000,000th journey by having people cycle three abreast on the footpath!
http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bikes-cycle-lanes-paths-dublin-2064194-Apr2015/

*facepalm*


(Disclaimer, I'm not overly familiar with the area around Kilmainham Gaol, so maybe that is actually a road that just looks like a footpath - I am open to being told I got it totally wrong, in which case I'll palm my own face!)

tampopo

The area around Kilmainham Gaol is where taxis and tour buses park on a double/contra flow cycle track on a one way street, forcing cyclists into oncoming traffic. So, it's a road with a cycle track on it that looks like parking spaces (to some drivers).

Rakish Paddy

tampopo wrote: »

So, it's a road with a cycle track on it that looks like parking spaces (to some drivers).

Ah crap... So that is actually a road that they are cycling on in that clip? I guess I have to eat my words...

Aard

Put in Dutch-quality bike infrastructure and you'll never see somebody cycling on the footpath again.

Rakish Paddy

Aard wrote: »

Put in Dutch-quality bike infrastructure and you'll never see somebody cycling on the footpath again.

I'd nearly give my right arm to never see someone cycling on a footpath, pedestrian st. or the wrong way on a one-way street in Dublin again... Who do I need to talk to about getting this Dutch-quality infrastructure in place? :-D

Dawn Rider

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

Ah crap... So that is actually a road that they are cycling on in that clip? I guess I have to eat my words...

The cycle track there is brown and is often used as a taxi lane
So the people in the photo linked are cycling on the footpath. Normal rules don't apply to photo shoots.

Aard

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

I'd nearly give my right arm to never see someone cycling on a footpath, pedestrian st. or the wrong way on a one-way street in Dublin again... Who do I need to talk to about getting this Dutch-quality infrastructure in place? :-D

Dublin City Council. The proposed Liffey Cycle Route should help make people feel safer while cycling.

People only cycle on footpaths for two reasons: where they don't feel safe cycling on the road (sharing lanes with buses, trucks, taxis etc); or where there is no direct route due to a one-way system designed for fast cars.

MrMorooka

tampopo wrote: »

The area around Kilmainham Gaol is where taxis and tour buses park on a double/contra flow cycle track on a one way street, forcing cyclists into oncoming traffic. So, it's a road with a cycle track on it that looks like parking spaces (to some drivers).

Rakish Paddy

Aard wrote: »

People only cycle on footpaths for two reasons: where they don't feel safe cycling on the road (sharing lanes with buses, trucks, taxis etc); or where there is no direct route due to a one-way system designed for fast cars.

I'd be inclined to add a third reason too. There's a certain sector of society that seem to do it because they just couldn't give a flying one about anyone else and have no respect for the rightful users of the footpath. The same sort of folks who don't clean up after their dogs...

Pawwed Rig

I live and walk around the city centre everyday of the week. Cycling on footpaths is not a huge issue imo as those that do it generally cycle at a reasonable speed so are not a danger to anyone. The bigger issue is cars and cyclists barrelling through pedestrian lights, where they should be stopping, at speed where people may be crossing.

I have to say the Sean O Casey Bridge is particularly idiotic to ban cyclists as the one way system on the quays coupled with fast moving traffic and silly cycling infrastructure makes it very difficuly and dangerous to cycle around there hence the reason that so many completely ignore the no bicycle rule on the bridge*

*also putting a Dublin bikes stand at the entrance to the bridge was not the smartest idea if the intention was to keep bikes off it.

traprunner

Simple solution if they are heading straight for you and are going to hit you. Twist the handle bars on them. I find it really stops them good and they will think twice about cycling on a footpath again.....and I am a cyclist!

tampopo

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

Ah crap... So that is actually a road that they are cycling on in that clip? I guess I have to eat my words...

No. That photo looks like they're posing for a photo on the footpath. (for the duration of the photoshoot/photo op).

tampopo

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

I'd nearly give my right arm to never see someone cycling on a footpath, pedestrian st. or the wrong way on a one-way street in Dublin again... Who do I need to talk to about getting this Dutch-quality infrastructure in place? :-D

Any and all public representatives that you may know, or any you can think of.

Rakish Paddy

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Cycling on footpaths is not a huge issue imo as those that do it generally cycle at a reasonable speed so are not a danger to anyone.

Possibly true in some parts of town, but Amiens St. / North Strand Rd. is particularly bad for cyclists absolutely tearing down the footpath. In that part of town though, motorcyclists on footpaths are not all that uncommon, so maybe I'm being too harsh on cyclists!

I've seen some pretty ludicrous cycling on Grafton St. too on a fairly regular basis - I'm surprised I haven't seen more bike vs. pedestrian/buggy accidents there.

Pawwed Rig

Not too many Dublin bikes out that far though is there? That is more likely locals I would have thought

Rakish Paddy

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Not too many Dublin bikes out that far though is there? That is more likely locals I would have thought

Oh yeah, definitely the locals that are the offenders there, and I definitely wouldn't try the handlebar trick to stop them either for fear of my life! The worst thing about it though is that there is a cycle lane on each side of the road and they still choose to barrel down the footpath instead.

MJohnston

Cyclists sometimes use footpaths and annoy pedestrians. Just as...
Pedestrians sometimes ignore red crossing signals and annoy cyclists and drivers. Just as...
Drivers sometimes ignore red traffic lights and annoy pedestrians, cyclists, and other drivers. Just as...
Cyclists sometimes get in the way of cars and annoy drivers. Just as...
Drivers sometimes are ignorant of cyclists and pedestrians and cause them physical danger. Just as...
etc etc etc.

Basically - everybody is a dick.

(posted as someone who is at various times a driver, a pedestrian, a cyclist, and a dick)

loyatemu

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

I've seen some pretty ludicrous cycling on Grafton St. too on a fairly regular basis - I'm surprised I haven't seen more bike vs. pedestrian/buggy accidents there.

and yet you haven't - so maybe it's not such a big issue?

endacl

Simple solution would be to for DB to allow guards to confiscate the cards from subscribers who use the bikes in an illegal/unsafe manner. When the cards are returned to DB, they can simply blacklist the subscriber.

Pawwed Rig

The Guards are not really interested in enforcing minor traffic infringements around the city other than the bus corridor as far as I can see. I have yet to see a Guard set up at a set of lights and pull over any cars, cycles that break the red.

Rakish Paddy

Any idea when those fixed charge penalties for cyclists breaching road rules are due to come in to effect?

Aard

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

I'd be inclined to add a third reason too. There's a certain sector of society that seem to do it because they just couldn't give a flying one about anyone else and have no respect for the rightful users of the footpath. The same sort of folks who don't clean up after their dogs...

I would opine that even those people would use proper cycle infrastructure over the footpath if it were in place.

Rakish Paddy

Aard wrote: »

I would opine that even those people would use proper cycle infrastructure over the footpath if it were in place.

Amiens St. has perfectly fine cycle lanes going in both directions, yet a large chunk of people (generally of a distinctly skanger-ish persuasion) choose to cycle on the path instead.

Aard

Well that sounds like nothing to do with DublinBikes users.

Rakish Paddy

Aard wrote: »

Well that sounds like nothing to do with DublinBikes users.

Nope, just run-of-the-mill footpath cyclists. I see a lot more footpath cycling on Dublin Bikes around Grafton St / St. Stephen's Green, and another pocket of it from O'Connell St. over as far as Heuston.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Aard wrote: »

I would opine that even those people would use proper cycle infrastructure over the footpath if it were in place.

I regularly (ie almost on a daily basis) nearly get mowed down by cyclists on the pedestrian only footpath on the promenade on the Clontarf Road - the part between Alfie Byrne Road and the wooden bridge, when there is an excellent cycle path only metres away.

Red Hare

Twice in recent weeks I have seen a Garda on a bike cycling on the footpath! Anyone else ever seen this?

Aard

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

Nope, just run-of-the-mill footpath cyclists. I see a lot more footpath cycling on Dublin Bikes around Grafton St / St. Stephen's Green, and another pocket of it from O'Connell St. over as far as Heuston.

Yes you're right. Try to trace a path from west of Grafton Street to east of Grafton Street by bike. The only legal way involves a ~1km diversion. As for O'Connell Street to Heuston -- have you tried cycling on the quays? Not for the meek.

People cycling on footpaths is a symptom of a poorly designed street network.

Aard

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I regularly (ie almost on a daily basis) nearly get mowed down by cyclists on the pedestrian only footpath on the promenade on the Clontarf Road - the part between Alfie Byrne Road and the wooden bridge, when there is an excellent cycle path only metres away.

Again, nothing to do with DublinBikes.

Rakish Paddy

Aard wrote: »

Yes you're right. Try to trace a path from west of Grafton Street to east of Grafton Street by bike. The only legal way involves a ~1km diversion. As for O'Connell Street to Heuston -- have you tried cycling on the quays? Not for the meek.

A path from the west of Grafton St. to the east of it can be safely and legally traversed very easily and quickly by dismounting and walking across the pedestrian street, no?

Re: O'Connell Street to Heuston, I have no doubt the quays on a bike may be a scary place. However, if you are going to cycle between those points you are obliged to do it legally. If it's too scary to go the direct route, and too lengthy to take the alternative route, then the Luas does the job nicely!

Arbiter of Good Taste

Aard wrote: »

Again, nothing to do with DublinBikes.

No examples of bicycles being cycled on footpaths necessarily has anything to do with DB unless DB has specially programmed it's bikes to force users to cycle on the footpath. So I'm not sure what you are looking for.

Rakish Paddy

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

No examples of bicycles being cycled on footpaths necessarily has anything to do with DB unless DB has specially programmed it's bikes to force users to cycle on the footpath. So I'm not sure what you are looking for.

Well, my original post was an observation that I thought it was funny that the 10,000,000th Dublin Bikes journey was marked by filming three people cycling three abreast on a footpath, considering how much footpath cycling you see done on Dublin bikes around town. Clearly though, breaking the rules of the road by cyclists is not done only by those on Dublin Bikes.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

Well, my original post was an observation that I thought it was funny that the 10,000,000th Dublin Bikes journey was marked by filming three people cycling three abreast on a footpath, considering how much footpath cycling you see done on Dublin bikes around town. Clearly though, breaking the rules of the road by cyclists is not done only by those on Dublin Bikes.

True, but if the discussion is to be limited to DB activities, it willbe a very short discussion indeed

OleRodrigo

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I regularly (ie almost on a daily basis) nearly get mowed down by cyclists on the pedestrian only footpath on the promenade on the Clontarf Road - the part between Alfie Byrne Road and the wooden bridge, when there is an excellent cycle path only metres away.

There are more infractions by dog walkers and runners on that cycle path than anything else.

Dublin Bike users are not really a problem because they tend to go relatively slowly ( DB bikes are heavy ). However, its good manners to get off the bike and wheel it while on a footpath, unless its during the delivery hours on Henry St, Grafton st when you can cycle on the pedestrian area.

I notice a lot of DB users - mostly, students and tourists from South American countries - who often cycle against the traffic. Although its bad practice here its actually considered safe cycling in bigger more congested ( and more dangerous ) cities. Perhaps DB could run a campaign on the Do's and Donts of cycling in Dublin.

As always, whether you're a pedestrian, cyclist or motorist , a small bit of consideration of other users goes along way. We'll never have the infrastructure of Copenhagan or Amsterdam so I guess there isn't much choice.

Rakish Paddy

OleRodrigo wrote: »

However, its good manners to get off the bike and wheel it while on a footpath, unless its during the delivery hours on Henry St, Grafton st when you can cycle on the pedestrian area.

Is it not *the law*, rather than good manners, to get off the bike and wheel it when on a footpath?

Is cycling on pedestrian streets actually permitted during delivery hours? I thought the only non-pedestrian traffic allowed was for delivery of goods?

sabat

The skanger kids cycling on the paths are looking for phones to snatch.

the_syco

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

It looks like Dublin Bikes celebrated their 10,000,000th journey by having people cycle three abreast on the footpath!
http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bikes-cycle-lanes-paths-dublin-2064194-Apr2015/

Three abreast, no helmets, on a footpath? Not too big a deal.

Have the Gardai hand out fines for anyone who breaks a red light, and we'll go after the footpath cyclists afterwards.

tampopo

Aard wrote: »

Yes you're right. Try to trace a path from west of Grafton Street to east of Grafton Street by bike. The only legal way involves a ~1km diversion. As for O'Connell Street to Heuston -- have you tried cycling on the quays? Not for the meek.

People cycling on footpaths is a symptom of a poorly designed street network.

I don't find the south quays too bad. They are at least, wide, smooth and flat, with a bus lane from Tara st. to Houston stn. One thing I don't like is the pedestrian light turning red after turning right onto the quays from the bridge at Capel st. It persuades me to go up the hill at Lord Edward St.

Aard

There's not a continuous bus lane along the south quays. Most notably at the pinch points / areas of highest conflict. It's absolutely inadequate as bike infrastructure provision. Try Victoria Quay into Heuston Station sometime. Four lanes for cars, none for bikes. With 185 DublinBikes docking points in and around Heuston, that has just added more cyclists into that conflict zone.

tampopo

I use Victoria Quay to go up Steevens Lane.

185 DublinBikes = Critical Mass.

Plenty of over the shoulder looking along there, listening for engines. Get in lane...be grand. In fairness, I rarely go into the station and don't hardly ever cross the bridge, though I could go to my mother's that way.

As an aside, I consider any lane a lane for a bike....

Do you mean a bus lane that stops 20m short of a junction, for example Watling Street?

The first bend at the chicane at the station is lethal, and I mount the footpath there, it's dipped for cycles.

skinnie

Another one that particularly annoys me is people cycling along the LUAS red line from middle abbey street to smithfield and vice versa. Technically illegal and very dangerous.

LeinsterDub

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I regularly (ie almost on a daily basis) nearly get mowed down by cyclists on the pedestrian only footpath on the promenade on the Clontarf Road - the part between Alfie Byrne Road and the wooden bridge, when there is an excellent cycle path only metres away.

Regularly but never actually. I regularly nearly win the lottery everyday too

Aard

tampopo wrote: »

The first bend at the chicane at the station is lethal, and I mount the footpath there, it's dipped for cycles.

Lethal is the word. Try turning right over Frank Sherwin Bridge. Cross two lanes of traffic, usually at top speed. It's not a simple matter of looking over your shoulder "be grand". Cycling should be safe for everyone. This is not a safe part of the road network.

Incidentally, having appropriate infrastructure near junctions is the most important. It's where the majority of conflict points are.

Aard

skinnie wrote: »

Another one that particularly annoys me is people cycling along the LUAS red line from middle abbey street to smithfield and vice versa. Technically illegal and very dangerous.

Unless they're holding up your tram, why would this annoy you?

MJohnston

skinnie wrote: »

Another one that particularly annoys me is people cycling along the LUAS red line from middle abbey street to smithfield and vice versa. Technically illegal and very dangerous.

Why is that illegal when regular vehicle traffic is allowed along most of that same section? The only really dangerous bit is that I've seen someone get a tyre stuck inside the actual track and go over their handle bars.

John_Rambo

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I live and walk around the city centre everyday of the week. Cycling on footpaths is not a huge issue imo as those that do it generally cycle at a reasonable speed so are not a danger to anyone.

Agreed. This is not a big deal.

atilladehun

MJohnston wrote: »

Cyclists sometimes use footpaths and annoy pedestrians. Just as...
Pedestrians sometimes ignore red crossing signals and annoy cyclists and drivers. Just as...
Drivers sometimes ignore red traffic lights and annoy pedestrians, cyclists, and other drivers. Just as...
Cyclists sometimes get in the way of cars and annoy drivers. Just as...
Drivers sometimes are ignorant of cyclists and pedestrians and cause them physical danger. Just as...
etc etc etc.

Basically - everybody is a dick.

(posted as someone who is at various times a driver, a pedestrian, a cyclist, and a dick)

This

Dyr

Cyclists are probably unique in that they're the only commuting group who actually think they're like islamic fundamentalists when it comes to protecting the sanctity of a cycle lane but also feel entitled to use every other part of the city as their own road

bottom line, the pigeons of the commuting world

beauf

Bambi wrote: »

Cyclists are probably unique in that they're the only commuting group who actually think they're like islamic fundamentalists when it comes to protecting the sanctity of a cycle lane but also feel entitled to use every other part of the city as their own road

bottom line, the pigeons of the commuting world

You mean like cars in bus lanes, or not letting buses pull out, or blocking buses, and hitting luas. Even not letting other cars pull out. Blocking the overtaking lane.
Or pedestrians, walking out in front of cars, especially at junctions, or walking in cycle lanes.

Let face it rule breaking in Ireland is the norm.

As is only seeing one side of it.

Aard

Cycling is the only mode of transport that the city hasn't made its mind up on whether it wants to treat them as vehicles, as pedestrians, or as a distinct mode of transport. No wonder people are confused as to where they can and an't cycle.

Standman

Cycle lanes are a bit of a mess in some parts of the city. You can have cycle lanes starting and/or ending smack bang in the middle of a footpath.

Take this example near Samuel Beckett Bridge; literally about 10 metres of cycle lane sandwiched in between footpaths on either side.


Try and figure that one out!