Leona Maguire - LPGA Winner 2022/23

gypsy79

Yes I do mean her distance!

But it isn't working. If you and her want call this success then so be it. She was longest ever world number one amateur. She is taking woods where everyone else has irons

Keep heads in sand lads!!

She has 5 chances a year at a major and rarely if ever contends

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743992#Comment_120743992

She shot the lowest round ever in a major, have you forgotten that?

She's only 16 yards on average behind the longest of the top 5 players in the world.

She averages 252.5 yards off the tee.

Jin Young Ko averages 264

Nelly Korda 269

Lydia Ko 256.5

Lilia Vu 264

Minjee Lee 266

She's not giving up much distance.

Look at the men's rankings,

Scottie Scheffler is giving up 17 yards to Rory. Cantlay 18, Hovland 21, Rahm only 3.

boccy23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743992#Comment_120743992

My thing would be more around making changes based on what "others" think will succeed and making fundamental changes to her own game. I look at people like Martin Kaymer (needing to create a draw), Harrington back in the day even Rory chasing Bryson's length and chasing something which means that their current level is never achieved again.

I think in Leona's case, she has always been short, but (without looking up the stats) her short game makes up for it. Lawrence Donegan had a point the other day that she got up and down twice based on a tip from Harrington. He has gone out of his way to help her it seems.

daithi7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744969#Comment_120744969

Exactly this. All top players swings & games are a work in progress. So nothing is ever set in stone with any player & it shouldn't be.

I wouldn't pretend to be nearly qualified to advise how Leona might improve further, but keys to what works are in what others have tried & worked , and also of course, avoiding what others have tried & failed.

So to add distance, things like adhering to the right strength & conditioning programs, while retaining flexibility & avoiding injury are what has worked for most golfers. So she should do that.

Also the continual evolution of your bag as your delivered power, swing speed & launch, etc, etc improve are also key to harnessing this.

Now is not the time to abandon her strengths, or a risky redesign of her swing imho.

So if the strong parts of Leona's game are her short game & accuracy, she should seek to build on those, not ignore them imho. They are significant strengths at the scoring end of holes . I think she should be patient with trying to add distance, it usually comes with the right s&c anyway, and she is young, so will likely see big improvements in this aspect of her game over the next 3 & more years, provided she stays disciplined with her s&c, etc. The outlook is good for her imho.

gypsy79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744896#Comment_120744896

I dont know where you getting your data from but the data is NOT complete. They dont track it properly or at all in many cases.

So believe what you want.

She isnt long enough

Innish_Rebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747065#Comment_120747065

I would expect @eagle eye is getting his data from https://www.lpga.com/statistics/driving/average-driving-distance which for me highlights something I find interesting. The long hitters on the LPGA have not produced anyone in the top 10 in the world rankings. The longest hitting on the top 10 womens rankings is Nelly Korda but she is 19th in the distance list. On the mens side, Rory(1), Rahm(8) are clearly gaining from their length.

I suppose a better metric would be shots gained off the tee which takes into account length & accuracy but unfortunately the LPGA is very light on that spec.

I did hear Leona on the NLU podcast last year & she was talking about her length or lack there off, but was also wary of the Bryson factor - but I would agree maybe following the Matt Fitz route is a better model. Especially with the fact the LPGA majors seems to have done a great job of getting some historical PGA major venues on their rota - hence meaning for the LPGA they will be potentially very long courses.

daithi7

Innish Rebel

"..I suppose a better metric would be shots gained off the tee which takes into account length & accuracy but unfortunately the LPGA is very light on that spec...."

And this is what so many pundits & golf fans do not really understand. Distance off the tee on it's own is no advantage whatsoever, indeed without increased accuracy, it can actually be a disadvantage....

It's only distance with increased accuracy, that will likely render shots gained off the tee. The increased accuracy required is due to simple geometry, e.g. as a rule of thumb: if you drive it 10% further, your dispersion will also have to improve by at least a proportional amount to stay in play on short grass & out of trouble to enable you to score.

And since golf is much more a game of avoiding errors, than blitzing odd holes at the expense of accuracy (e.g. there are far more pars on a card than birdies or eagles as a for instance), then any player who wants to add distance, (& any fan encouraging them to) needs to realise that it's only distance & consistent increased accuracy with that distance, that actually yields results.

And results are what players are after!!!

And Leona is managing those just fine imho.

slave1

Yes and No, the men's game changed forever with hitting the gym and overpowering courses, e.g. apart from Zach Johnson The Masters is long hitter only the last 20years. Also remember with longer hitting comes strength that can take balls out of rough that was not possible previously.

The difference hitting in a 9iron onto a green versus a wood/hybrid is immense

SEORG

Here are the stroke-gained stats for this season. Leona is ranked 12th overall and 102nd off the tee

https://kpmgperformanceinsights.com/season/2023/summary

callaway92

Is this for real or a pisstake?

Can confirm they 100% track it. Used to work with Opta and we pulled that stuff from LPGA (and PGA/European Tour for their tours) to sell on.

I think LET mightn’t track theirs but LPGA do

spacecoyote

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120748647#Comment_120748647

This thinking has almost been proved entirely wrong at this point.

Harrington was on talking about it recently with the No Laying Up guys on their podcast and was saying about how the traditional thinking killed a lot of the big hitters potential 20 years ago. The likes of Hank Kuehne and even younger Tiger were pretty much convinced that hitting it too far was a disadvantage to them, so they would have been hitting a lot more long irons and 3 woods off tees because of the perceived lack of accuracy with extra distance.

He credits Rory for the change in perception and the idea that distance is king.

The strokes gained stats have been shown to bear this out.

I think really the current industry thinking is, you want to hit it as far as possible without bringing penalties into play, missed fairways is almost an irrelevance as long as your avoiding big trouble at almost every tour event now

daithi7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120751349#Comment_120751349

Harrington is a good case in point to illustrate the accuracy of "this thinking" imho I.e. that you must increase accuracy & distance, not just distance alone, to be effective & score.

After winning his 3rd major, iirc , Harrington went away that off season with his coach to rebuild his swing, to try to add some more distance to his driving in particular. He came back the following spring, with a new swing, & when he connected with the ball with this new swing he could indeed hit it 5-10 yards further than the previous few years when he won his 3 majors.

The trouble was he totally lost his accuracy & consistency. He was spraying them left & right off the tee, often with no rhyme or reason. This really affected his game, confidence and of course scores. He never won a major again after that, any time he came near to contending in any tournament he invariably drove it into water or a hazard under pressure, and iirc it took him several years to find any real form again. That was some fall from grace. Unfortunately his major winning window was effectively gone then on the main tour, as he had spent those wasted years trying to get a consistent drive back again. That experience is surely worth heeding.

spacecoyote

Harrington has been changing and tinkering with his swing for his whole career. It's really a flawed story that has been spread that he just made the change after winning his majors and that ruined his major career.

He has, and still does, look to make changes, as does every single golf pro, he's just maybe a bit more famous for the things he's willing to try to make a change.

Look at basically every young guy coming through at this stage, they're all building for power. The average drive on the Korn Ferry tour, the breathing ground for the next generation of guys has a higher average driving distance than the PGA tour.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing accuracy, but it's not a great indicator. If you look at taw accuracy, the number 1 ranked player of tour averages 12-13 fairways per round, Rory, ranked outside the top 150 for accuracy hits 9-10 fairways on average.

I think I'd take the extra 20 yards off the tee from Rory with 2-3 less fairways.

These are exceptionally talented golfers so are technically great, not just some amateur deciding to swing like a maniac.

Taking Leonas example, she's averaging 252 yards and 82% accuracy, so 14-15 fairways per round.

Nelly Korda, is 17-18 yards longer than her, on average (and she is just about in top 20 for distance) hits only 1 less fairways per round, on average.

Leona is saying it herself, that it's holding her back from getting to the next level and she's a smart golfer and likely knows the reality.

So really Nelly is about 2 clubs longer off the tee, which means she's likely longer through her bag, so could be hitting, 3-4 clubs less into most greens, and likely not from much worse positions.

At an amateur level, you gain. Look at this Arccos data

81% of golfers that gained 10 yards or more of average distance made some sort of gain in their scoring, with 17% gaining 4+ strokes.

Finding fairways is great, finding distance, missing a few more fairways, but avoiding penalties is better

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120752457#Comment_120752457

And yet in men's golf only Jon Rahm has as many majors as Collin Morikawa in the last four years.

And in women's golf, Chun, Buhai, Tavatanakit and Nordqvist are all short off the tee and they've all won majors in the last two years.

So tell me, if it's such a disadvantage, how Morikawa is one of only two golfers with double majors in the last four years and how four of the last ten winners of women's majors are short off the tee?

And just on Harrington. He was always tinkering with his game and many times to his detriment. For instance, at the K club for the Ryder Cup in 2006 he was melting the ball off the tee in practice, best driver of the ball all week and on the morning of the first matches he changed to a new driver. He did things like that many times in his career.

Scrabbel

Outstanding last 4 holes again and finishing outright leader. This could be major!

Speak Now

Did Trish Johnson just call Leona British lol.

Scrabbel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120757428#Comment_120757428

I'm just giving up at this stage!

Mushy

Our favourite Brit currently has a 2 shot lead halfway through front 9

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120760702#Comment_120760702

3 now.

Scrabbel

Leona leading and Stephanie Meadow joint 2nd. Who'd have thought!

mjsc1970

Leona finished 1 ahead of the field at the end of R3 and Stephanie Meadow only 2 back.

Great stuff.

Birdie on the last, hope she can go ahead and win it tomorrow!

Speak Now

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120761424#Comment_120761424

Out early in 3 balls tomorrow so Stephanie in final group with Leona, 3.38 P.M tee off Irish time.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743992#Comment_120743992

Lol what do you from the couch call success ?

The world deems being first in your chosen profession as the epitome of success.

Deeper Blue

Really hope she does it tonight, I won't be able to watch but I'll be checking the phone every 2 mins, would be a huge achievement, hopefully it gets the recognition it deserves from the Irish media if it happens!!

redhill

When is the earliest coverage start, I see final group is just after teeing off

Mushy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120763518#Comment_120763518

Sky sports Mix at 4 it appears

Scrabbel

Started already as the cricket finished early. Also free on Sky Sports Golf on youtube.

finglashoop

Youtube best bet I think

dublin49

watched first 3 holes and she definitely seems to be struggling to get the ball up to the hole ,great up and downs but she cant keep going to that well .