Mart Price Tracker

Welding Rod

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I sold 3 yearling bullocks for a neighbour last week, they'd usually be sold as weanlings last November but he was restricted with Tb. All March and April 2020 born and LM bred
450kg €1060 (Black LM and the pick of them)
355kg €900 (Average red LM)
340kg €810 (Middle of the road mousey LM)

I thought it the price of them and he was happy with how they averaged. However I was thinking that the 2 first bullocks would hardly have gotten €200 from November and the last 1 wouldn't have gotten much with €100. I'd sell his weanlings the last few year's and it would be rare for him to get less than €700 for a bull weanling and he'd often clich €900 for the pick of them. Let's say they'd probably have averaged near €800 last autumn and take feeding from now until then, they'd have the difference eaten. There's one time to sell suckler weanlings and that's either off the cow or as a store the following autumn imo, over wintering them is a fools game I always think.

Bit like your man, I had three red lim bull calves off the cows mid November. Forget the weights, but three good AI bred calves. April born. They were averaging €770. Brought them home and overwintered them. Sold two weeks ago in Ennis. Average €1015. They left me €245 Did it pay me? I figured they did for €90 meal plus a dose. Call it €100.
I estimate baled silage at 5 bales per head @ €24 per bale. €120. Total cost €220 per head average.
So they netted me €25 per skull! Hardly worth the risk, is it? One vet call out, would have more than zeroed out my margin!!!

Water John

Welding Rod wrote: »

Bit like your man, I had three red lim bull calves off the cows mid November. Forget the weights, but three good AI bred calves. April born. They were averaging €770. Brought them home and overwintered them. Sold two weeks ago in Ennis. Average €1015. They left me €245 Did it pay me? I figured they did for €90 meal plus a dose. Call it €100.
I estimate baled silage at 5 bales per head @ €24 per bale. €120. Total cost €220 per head average.
So they netted me €25 per skull! Hardly worth the risk, is it? One vet call out, would have more than zeroed out my margin!!!

How would they have fared if you left the meal out? Just a question on, is meal worth it at any stage?

50HX

Welding Rod wrote: »

Bit like your man, I had three red lim bull calves off the cows mid November. Forget the weights, but three good AI bred calves. April born. They were averaging €770. Brought them home and overwintered them. Sold two weeks ago in Ennis. Average €1015. They left me €245 Did it pay me? I figured they did for €90 meal plus a dose. Call it €100.
I estimate baled silage at 5 bales per head @ €24 per bale. €120. Total cost €220 per head average.
So they netted me €25 per skull! Hardly worth the risk, is it? One vet call out, would have more than zeroed out my margin!!!

Had you the option to bring em on till july/august?

Wouldn't cost a whole lot extra on grass but would leave you 200-300 per head extra

richie123

Welding Rod wrote: »

Bit like your man, I had three red lim bull calves off the cows mid November. Forget the weights, but three good AI bred calves. April born. They were averaging €770. Brought them home and overwintered them. Sold two weeks ago in Ennis. Average €1015. They left me €245 Did it pay me? I figured they did for €90 meal plus a dose. Call it €100.
I estimate baled silage at 5 bales per head @ €24 per bale. €120. Total cost €220 per head average.
So they netted me €25 per skull! Hardly worth the risk, is it? One vet call out, would have more than zeroed out my margin!!!

Ya sure its crazy.
You just sumed up everything that's wrong with beef farming with that post.

Welding Rod

50HX wrote: »

Had you the option to bring em on till july/august?

Wouldn't cost a whole lot extra on grass but would leave you 200-300 per head extra

I guess I had that opportunity. They were bulls and I didn’t fancy either squeezing them or keeping them as bulls. Thinking about it now, I could have managed them as bulls until July or so. They would probably put a fair old dosh of weight on them by the middle of July and pull in €300 ‘ish??

Albert Johnson

lab man wrote: »

Depends when your calving them

It would of course but I'm talking about spring born calves and holding them until the following spring. It's a different story with late summer or autumn born calves. I've come to the conclusion that 280kg-330kg is the sweet spot when selling weanlings and once they reach that it case of cashing in or holding for another 12 month's and carrying to 500kg+.

Albert Johnson

lab man wrote: »

Sound Albert he has plenty room he be let off now as I said tis just for experience about bucket calves as I've bought 15 last year and 25 this year I'll write todays price on his card and hell be sold at about 27 mts I'll be trying to get them to about 650 kg 700 kg at that stage but ya I thought at 300 kg hed make 600e or so the faster calf weighing is brought in the better

Would the second residency make much of a difference cause after me there was a few nice lm with 3 movements 350 kg making 450 euro

The third residency would mean that the next man would need to carry through to slaughter to maintain QA status and qualify for the bonus. On an animal weighing 350kg that's still 12-18 months off so they wouldn't appeal to anyone looking for stock to kill this year. That's all assuming that they'd be "inspec" cattle to begin with and they might be the types that need to be carried to 36 months before slaughter and therefore aren't eligible for the bonus regardless of movements. Again it's hard to comment without seeing the stock but €450 for a 350kg LMx type animal seems fairly piss poor regardless of the number of movements.

Bass Reeves

lab man wrote: »

Took 4 to ennis today 3 light bullocks 2 lm 1 ch bullocks and a lm heifer
Lm bk 265 kg 750e 8mts
Ch 330 990e 9mts
A bucket reared calf just to see wat hed make gave 50 euro for him april last year
300kg 490e lmx took him home.
1 lm heifer 265 kg 750 8mts
Happy with these prices
The bucket lad is leaving prob 250 to 280 profit do ye think twas a mistake taking him home ?

I would have taken him home as well. I be happy out to pick up cattle this stage of the year for that type of money. If he has plenty of grass he do 200kgs between now and housing. What will he cost 100 euro will go along way to get him to then. Now I think next autumn will see a sh!t show price wise but I expect even at that he surly make 800 euro.

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I sold 3 yearling bullocks for a neighbour last week, they'd usually be sold as weanlings last November but he was restricted with Tb. All March and April 2020 born and LM bred
450kg €1060 (Black LM and the pick of them)
355kg €900 (Average red LM)
340kg €810 (Middle of the road mousey LM)

I thought it the price of them and he was happy with how they averaged. However I was thinking that the 2 first bullocks would hardly have gotten €200 from November and the last 1 wouldn't have gotten much with €100. I'd sell his weanlings the last few year's and it would be rare for him to get less than €700 for a bull weanling and he'd often clich €900 for the pick of them. Let's say they'd probably have averaged near €800 last autumn and take feeding from now until then, they'd have the difference eaten. There's one time to sell suckler weanlings and that's either off the cow or as a store the following autumn imo, over wintering them is a fools game I always think.

Cost's, cost's, cost's, when did he house them. Weanling are dirt cheap to winter silage and a kg of ration will see many of them winter away well. That will cost sub a euro/ day 130 euro's should winter any weanling for 150 days

Welding Rod wrote: »

Bit like your man, I had three red lim bull calves off the cows mid November. Forget the weights, but three good AI bred calves. April born. They were averaging €770. Brought them home and overwintered them. Sold two weeks ago in Ennis. Average €1015. They left me €245 Did it pay me? I figured they did for €90 meal plus a dose. Call it €100.
I estimate baled silage at 5 bales per head @ €24 per bale. €120. Total cost €220 per head average.
So they netted me €25 per skull! Hardly worth the risk, is it? One vet call out, would have more than zeroed out my margin!!!

90 euro of ration is over 300 kgs it an awful lot of ration to feed a weanling over a winter. I think lads need to get a hnadle on there costs.

I bought stores last Autumn at 605/head they have got silage only I be disappointed if they did not average 900 in the mart. Silage with mins & vits, salt and limestone flour. Cost 90c/day and a fiver for dosing. They got housed on average Nov 5th and turnout date March 17th. 125 euro to winter.

All research has shown that ration fed during the winter makes little difference 200 days later. lads buying do not want puffed up animals. I be surprised if those animals were fed the right using my system and half to a quarter kg that they have made much less

SuperTortoise

455kg 11 months €1210
360kg 8 months €1120
440kg 12 months €1120
390kg 10 months €940
435kg 11 months €1110

Albert Johnson

They'd have been housed around the beginning of December after weaning and the same man wouldn't have been killed drawing meal to them since. A dusting of meal daily and ab lib middling silage was there diet since then. There'd be no money wasted in his operation but even if they only cost €130 to winter along with squeezing, haulage and commission I'd reckon he was still at nothing wintering them.

lab man

SuperTortoise wrote: »

455kg 11 months €1210
360kg 8 months €1120
440kg 12 months €1120
390kg 10 months €940
435kg 11 months €1110

They got some amount of ration

Grueller

SuperTortoise wrote: »

455kg 11 months €1210
360kg 8 months €1120
440kg 12 months €1120
390kg 10 months €940
435kg 11 months €1110

What breed?

dh1985

lab man wrote: »

They got some amount of ration

Good continental bulls should have no problem hitting those weights without needing to pump them with meal.

SuperTortoise

They have a nice bit ate, but not pumped by any stretch.
I think it pays to feed on a bit, but there's not much if any of a margin either way.

SuperTortoise

Grueller wrote: »

What breed?

All out of LM stock bull, CHx and LM cows.

lab man

SuperTortoise wrote: »

They have a nice bit ate, but not pumped by any stretch.
I think it pays to feed on a bit, but there's not much if any of a margin either way.

I give mine a bit but not much less than half a kilo a day puts a shine on them I think

Jb1989

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Around here cattle aren’t out till mid to late April

Same here, but lots of empty sheds about and cattle are being stored inside, dosed and blackleged and ready for grass in the next fortnight or less, there is lots of dry land as well as wet land in this country.

Sami23

Albert Johnson wrote: »

You've the hard work done between rearing and wintering him and he's the sort that should thrive when he gets to grass. Without seeing him in the flesh it's hard to say but he didn't do too bad so far if he's 300kg and I'd be hoping to have him 450kg or more by the autumn.

Just on that weight increase you mention there for the summer would you say 150kgs to 200kgs would be the normal for say LMX Mar/Apr 2020 born weanlings to gain between now and October.
Mine weighed average 305kgs last October when I weighed them for BEEP but finding it hard last few years to get them much over 500kgs at 18months and some especially heifers do be under the 500kg's.

Also, would most lads give a shake of meal to these type cattle for the summer or not.

Albert Johnson

Sami23 wrote: »

Just on that weight increase you mention there for the summer would you say 150kgs to 200kgs would be the normal for say LMX Mar/Apr 2020 born weanlings to gain between now and October.
Mine weighed average 305kgs last October when I weighed them for BEEP but finding it hard last few years to get them much over 500kgs at 18months and some especially heifers do be under the 500kg's.

Also, would most lads give a shake of meal to these type cattle for the summer or not.

I'd be hoping for that sort of preformance over the summer and find that it's usually achievable without meal. I wouldn't feed meal to store's at grass under any circumstances as it's just adding cost imo and contributing little to any extra weight gain. If you had them going to grass as good store's that weren't over done as opposed to fleshy types and kept good grass ahead of them all summer I'd be disappointed if the majority didn't gain that much.

You'll always have outliers but on the whole I believe it's attainable on average type store cattle but it depends on the land and grass cover. Would they have gained much weight from the weighing in October until now do you think?

Sami23

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I'd be hoping for that sort of preformance over the summer and find that it's usually achievable without meal. I wouldn't feed meal to store's at grass under any circumstances as it's just adding cost imo and contributing little to any extra weight gain. If you had them going to grass as good store's that weren't over done as opposed to fleshy types and kept good grass ahead of them all summer I'd be disappointed if the majority didn't gain that much.

You'll always have outliers but on the whole I believe it's attainable on average type store cattle but it depends on the land and grass cover. Would they have gained much weight from the weighing in October until now do you think?

You'd hope they would have put on a bit as they had good silage and were getting a very small bit of weanling ration also but hard to know.
Suppose having a scales be handy

Water John

I think I might give weanlings 1kg meal at most. You could easily persuade me not to. Depends on ground and everyone's farming situation is different.
If finishing stock crimped whole crop or some home grown alternative is worth looking at.

Albert Johnson

Sami23 wrote: »

You'd hope they would have put on a bit as they had good silage and were getting a very small bit of weanling ration also but hard to know.
Suppose having a scales be handy

If there 350kg atm and could be put to grass shortly then I'd be expecting the majority to be north of 500kg come October. However if there only 320kg (not outside the realms of possibility) and aren't turned out for another month then I wouldn't be surprised at them struggling to be much more than 450kg in October.

I constantly hear of how cheaply weanlings can be wintered and the gains expected off half to a kilo of meal per head per day for 120-150 days on silage. This is correct if you're on good land with good silage and a short (4 months or less winter). However locally you'd be working with average silage and wintering them for nearer 5-6 months in an average year. There's plenty of weanlings put back to grass at similar weights to what they were housed at the previous autumn. Coupled with an extra month or 2 gaining no weight in the shed compared to those at grass and it's easy to be 100kg behind come next autumn.

Welding Rod

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I would have taken him home as well. I be happy out to pick up cattle this stage of the year for that type of money. If he has plenty of grass he do 200kgs between now and housing. What will he cost 100 euro will go along way to get him to then. Now I think next autumn will see a sh!t show price wise but I expect even at that he surly make 800 euro.



Cost's, cost's, cost's, when did he house them. Weanling are dirt cheap to winter silage and a kg of ration will see many of them winter away well. That will cost sub a euro/ day 130 euro's should winter any weanling for 150 days



90 euro of ration is over 300 kgs it an awful lot of ration to feed a weanling over a winter. I think lads need to get a hnadle on there costs.

I bought stores last Autumn at 605/head they have got silage only I be disappointed if they did not average 900 in the mart. Silage with mins & vits, salt and limestone flour. Cost 90c/day and a fiver for dosing. They got housed on average Nov 5th and turnout date March 17th. 125 euro to winter.

All research has shown that ration fed during the winter makes little difference 200 days later. lads buying do not want puffed up animals. I be surprised if those animals were fed the right using my system and half to a quarter kg that they have made much less

Interesting. I had kept them as full bulls, and thought they would convert the meal fairly efficiently. Looking at the sakes docket there now, they averaged 395kg. Ranged 380kg to 415kg. Two March born and one April born.

I certainly wouldn’t call them too fleshy. Just good nick, showing muscle and growth potential.
My feeling on the day, based on other pens I saw selling is that if they were heavier and more well done, I would have done better on sales price but more importantly on margin.
A cousin on same day with similar animals March 2020 and also bulls, but clearly more ration fired into them, got €120 more per head. His average weight 445kg.
I was figuring it was a feedlot buying the fleshier types for a quicker finish..
I sort of figure his extra €120 sales price cost him approx €70 in extra ration.

Bass Reeves

Welding Rod wrote: »

Interesting. I had kept them as full bulls, and thought they would convert the meal fairly efficiently. Looking at the sakes docket there now, they averaged 395kg. Ranged 380kg to 415kg. Two March born and one April born.

I certainly wouldn’t call them too fleshy. Just good nick, showing muscle and growth potential.
My feeling on the day, based on other pens I saw selling is that if they were heavier and more well done, I would have done better on sales price but more importantly on margin.
A cousin on same day with similar animals March 2020 and also bulls, but clearly more ration fired into them, got €120 more per head. His average weight 445kg.
I was figuring it was a feedlot buying the fleshier types for a quicker finish..
I sort of figure his extra €120 sales price cost him approx €70 in extra ration.

With slaughter numbers low at present there is probably demand for heavier bulls that can be fed on and will kill in the next 80-120 days at FS of 2+. These sort of bulls are a very fickle market. Lads buying your are going to squeeze the light one's and finish heaviest maybe.

The bull market is fickle and lads buying heavier bulls will generally not pay top prices unless they have a gauranteed market. The aim maybe to finish them and slaughter at carcasse weight of 350 kgs DW or about 630-650LW.

Next year there may be no demand for such bulls as we will have 200k extra cattle clogging the system

tellmeabit

Saw a 350kg lm bull 3 months old sold 1090. Great money for a 90 day calf

Gortatlea

tanko

Must be some amount of rushes on that farm.

50HX

tellmeabit wrote: »

Saw a 350kg lm bull 3 months old sold 1090. Great money for a 90 day calf

Gortatlea

You mean after 100 days in the rushes it's been 90 days since he was registered

tellmeabit

tanko wrote: »

Must be some amount of rushes on that farm.

Wish my rushes were as good to grow them calves

Water John

Curzon Livestock are looking for Fr bulls for Libya:
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/live-exports-2000-bulls-wanted-for-shipment-to-libya/

kk.man

Welding Rod wrote: »

Interesting. I had kept them as full bulls, and thought they would convert the meal fairly efficiently. Looking at the sakes docket there now, they averaged 395kg. Ranged 380kg to 415kg. Two March born and one April born.

I certainly wouldn’t call them too fleshy. Just good nick, showing muscle and growth potential.
My feeling on the day, based on other pens I saw selling is that if they were heavier and more well done, I would have done better on sales price but more importantly on margin.
A cousin on same day with similar animals March 2020 and also bulls, but clearly more ration fired into them, got €120 more per head. His average weight 445kg.
I was figuring it was a feedlot buying the fleshier types for a quicker finish..
I sort of figure his extra €120 sales price cost him approx €70 in extra ration.

The big issue feeding on weanling bulls is the constant ration. They can actually go stale on it.
IMO they need a break from it ie grass for a bit.