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Cheating in Airsoft/ Not taking you hits

  • 31-03-2015 12:48am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭✭ Fianna88


    Sorry about this guys but I had a really bad game on Sunday a lot of people not taking there hits and I just need to vent a bit.

    I just don't understand why you would play airsoft which is supposed to be a game of honor and not take your hits! I was giving people the benefit of the doubt at the beginning of the day but as time went on and I could see BBs bouncing of certain players I got angry and at one point I shot a guy 3 feet from me and he just turned around shot me and continued on his way!! I called over a marshal who just said we are both hit go and respawn at which point I grabbed my gear and left.

    I have been Skirmishing for 8 years and I'm finding this is getting more and more common when it should be getting stamped out. Every site I have ever gone to the marshals give a big lecture saying if you are repeatedly cheating you will be banned but in 8 years I have never heard of this happening!? My experience on Sunday has me considering leaving airsoft behind completely.

    Is there anyone else in the same boat as me? Or has anyone ever heard of someone being banned from a site?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭ K.Flyer


    I have to say in over 5 years I haven't seen anyone banned for not taking hits.
    I think the next worse thing to someone not taking hits, its the player who keeps firing at you long after you have raised your hand and called hit.
    It's a total game spoiler when marshals don't appear to be dealing with these situations and you probably did the best thing by leaving as you may have blown up on someone and then regretted it.
    As I always say,"... hopefully they will either learn or leave."
    Keep the faith..


  • Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭ An Cigire


    I'm new to airsoft and game in Red Barn, as a new member of the sport I find the Marshall's to be fair and firm.. have seen several examples of marshals responding to gamer complaints and beino a fair referee and actively monitoring and mentoring player that have alleged or indeed caused infractions.

    "If you think your hit , then take the hit.." is the rule in the barn

    Half the reason I like redbarn is the Marshall's are proactive and interested in developing the sport.

    It's is a sport after all and I agree with the original poster, if you don't respect the rules of our spoft don't play.. all actions like the above do is ruin everyone's game.

    As a player our honour is all we have..


  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭ d.one


    Over the last 2 I have seen an increase in cheating on most sites I have played on ,with the exception of one or two ,it was really bad on one site one day ,when the head marshal shouted at a guy we were playing against " for **** sake take your hits " but didn't remove him from the game , friends of mine have gone further when their complaints fell on deaf ears the packed up and went home ,I myself have only walked off a site once because of cheating but have felt like it a few times ,
    Wining or loosing dosent bother me I couldn't care less , some think it's the only thing that matters and how they get there dose not matter ,Airsoft when played with like minded players is amazing but unfortunately it only takes the actions of a few to ruin it for the majority ,and if the site for what ever reason is either unwilling or not able to stamp out cheating ,my advise would be try another site


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,086 ✭✭✭✭ TheDoc


    It's been a hot issue for as long as I'm playing. I get the issues that Marshalls have in trusting someone enough to approach another player and say " You are cheating", there has to be 100% confidence there, as its a small community and reputations can incorrectly be tarnished.

    If your experiencing regular enough issues on the same site, and after airing the issues with marshalls and owners and you feel it's not being dealt with, look into another site. In cases where there has been serious cheating rampant on sites in the past I've just moved on and gone elsewhere for a period.

    Have to say in recent times havn't really encountered it, although most of the games I'm going to are private days, or events. But I'm comfortable in knowing the site I visit for skirmishes is pro-active in terms of dealing with cheaters and has a history of banning players from the site where issues arise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭✭ Fianna88


    Ive tried a lot of sites and I go to as many Milsims/events as I can but I can just see it getting worse and worse as time goes on and it is just ruining the sport for me. Sundays game was the first time I ever actually left a site because it was so bad and that was an event not a normal skirmish day. Although there have been many occasions I felt like leaving but did not and I will never aggressively confront someone,as much as I would like to sometimes, I will always talk to a marshal.

    I just think that the Marshals need to take a stronger stance on the issue for example if someone is repeatedly not taking hits and the marshals are receiving constant complaints about them then practice what you preach and either ask them to leave the game or ban them from the site they would soon get the message.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,130 ✭✭✭✭ Lemming


    Fianna88 wrote: »
    I just think that the Marshals need to take a stronger stance on the issue for example if someone is repeatedly not taking hits and the marshals are receiving constant complaints about them then practice what you preach and either ask them to leave the game or ban them from the site they would soon get the message.

    Now here is the thing; I've been in - and seen - the situation where there are repeated complaints about someone, ranging from "not taking hits" to "not going back to their regen point". In the majority of cases the accuser is wrong.

    Why?

    Most of the time, the complaints have either heard mumblings from teammates, which then spreads like chinese whispers, or (almost always) it's a classic case of "the BBs were heading towards him when I ducked into cover so must have hit him". I've actually had someone try to suggest that because they were scoped (this was a "sniper" of course ... ) that the target wasn't taking his hits. So a fellow marshal stood right beside the other guy and radioed back to me that the rounds were falling well short ...

    The other typical scenario is honest mistake of not hearing/feeling a hit because there's either a lot of noise going on around them or they're sprinting or some such and the rounds bounce off a crease in clothing or some such.

    It is extremely difficult to marshal and do it well/right. Most people wont complain until back in the safe zone/end of day at which point complaining is f*ck all use. But even when they do, the best that can be done for certain at that point in time is that either a marshal reminds them of the rules (never ever mention complaints against them because it's a guaruanteed argument)or for a marshal to be assigned to shadow said-player. In both scenarios above, the players typically become aware that a marshal is nearby or that they are under scrutiny and will start to play by the rules.

    Until a marshal actually catches someone out and it's deliberate (as opposed to an honest mistake), they cannot be formally warned without causing a lot of ill-feeling, which may in fact be unwarranted and down to other people getting it wrong.

    Once caught, most sites I've played at (and where I marshal included) tend to operate on some sort of 'three strikes' premise. It is also typically not the marshals authority to ask someone to leave, but the owner/person in authority on-site. In all of my time marshalling I can only thing of a handful of times where I have had to pull someone up for deliberate behaviour or mind-boggling stupidity. Most of the time a simple reminder does the job where one cannot be sure. I have also seen people ejected from site and/or turned away for having guns above the legal limit despite having travelled some distance to come to events.


  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭✭ Fianna88


    Lemming wrote: »
    Now here is the thing; I've been in - and seen - the situation where there are repeated complaints about someone, ranging from "not taking hits" to "not going back to their regen point". In the majority of cases the accuser is wrong.

    Why?

    Most of the time, the complaints have either heard mumblings from teammates, which then spreads like chinese whispers, or (almost always) it's a classic case of "the BBs were heading towards him when I ducked into cover so must have hit him". I've actually had someone try to suggest that because they were scoped (this was a "sniper" of course ... ) that the target wasn't taking his hits. So a fellow marshal stood right beside the other guy and radioed back to me that the rounds were falling well short ...

    The other typical scenario is honest mistake of not hearing/feeling a hit because there's either a lot of noise going on around them or they're sprinting or some such and the rounds bounce off a crease in clothing or some such.

    It is extremely difficult to marshal and do it well/right. Most people wont complain until back in the safe zone/end of day at which point complaining is f*ck all use. But even when they do, the best that can be done for certain at that point in time is that either a marshal reminds them of the rules (never ever mention complaints against them because it's a guaruanteed argument)or for a marshal to be assigned to shadow said-player. In both scenarios above, the players typically become aware that a marshal is nearby or that they are under scrutiny and will start to play by the rules.

    Until a marshal actually catches someone out and it's deliberate (as opposed to an honest mistake), they cannot be formally warned without causing a lot of ill-feeling, which may in fact be unwarranted and down to other people getting it wrong.

    Once caught, most sites I've played at (and where I marshal included) tend to operate on some sort of 'three strikes' premise. It is also typically not the marshals authority to ask someone to leave, but the owner/person in authority on-site. In all of my time marshalling I can only thing of a handful of times where I have had to pull someone up for deliberate behaviour or mind-boggling stupidity. Most of the time a simple reminder does the job where one cannot be sure. I have also seen people ejected from site and/or turned away for having guns above the legal limit despite having travelled some distance to come to events.

    Please don't get me wrong I'm not on here to complain about marshals I know its not an easy job and I always give players the benefit of the doubt but when I can actually see the BBs hitting a player and them flinching from the hit and they are not calling it that is when I get angry. I never assume I have hit a player. I told marshals 3 times about players not taking their hits straight away on Sunday before I left and I wasn't the only person who left that day because of it. Like I said in my previous posts in 8 years I have never seen anyone disciplined for cheating that's what annoys me.

    Look I'm an honest player and cheating just really boils my blood.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,130 ✭✭✭✭ Lemming


    Cheating boils everyone's blood. There'll always be someone who *has* to win no matter the cost, or considers themselves to be better and more deserving because they've spent 'n' amount of cash on the kit they're wearing/using and therefore "it's alright", or the person who thinks nobody saw the hit and because they can't see who shot them it's ok.

    All that you can do is keep doing what you're doing. Don't wait to moan amongst your team-mates about it, call a marshal and give as good and accurate a description of the player & incident as you can give during game-play.

    A tip for all: when making a complaint, don't give a description similar to this: "he was wearing camo" ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭ mudger


    totally agree that cheating is more common place now that it used to be.

    We tell players to check each other when playing. if your own team is telling you your hit, its another way of curbing it.

    Like any site Predator CG has had its fair share of this issue. We employ also honesty shots with marshals. If you call it you are told to stay in place and play on. If not the marshal goes directly to the player and sends him tot he re spawn.

    Another tactic for this is to stand over them ALL DAY. it annoys them. lol. Ties up a staff member sometimes but worth it. they soon change their tune.

    Also aggressive shooting is a problem. Especially with high rate of fire. When we see this we act immediately. Players are told not to. Also to keep their distance with high rate of fire weapons.

    Its not just a sites problem is everyones. As mentioned it can result in a bad skirmish experience. No-one wants that!

    Play fair and clean fokls!


  • Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭ ShRT


    People not taking hits is definitely up there amongst the most annoying aspects of airsoft.
    I usually give people the benefit of the doubt unless they are up close or I have seen it bounce off them. For those I am certain of, I usually give them the pleasure of a burst or two (I normally use multiple single shots).

    To twist it around, I have been on the accused side of not taking my hits. There was only a few of us left in the game and the person I was trying to hit was in cover behind some metal sheeting. I was in the open but had been edging towards him as I could see the bb's dropping a few feet in front of me. On the other hand I was easily able to ping their cover (good old marui magic!)
    I could see them getting mad as they thought I was not taking hits - lots of hand waving and shouting. I promptly informed him that they were dropping in front of me and pointed out each bb as it dropped.

    I have also used a tree to range in the gun at the start of a game so I was pretty confident that I was hitting the person who was standing in front of it. Esp when you see them jump and look around! Didn't bother telling the marshal at the time (they are often a marshal themselves) so I made them my main target for the rest of the game. Wasted my bb's and was probably out of the game earlier than usual but it was very satisfying to take them out!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 31,468 ✭✭✭✭ Gatling


    Try having to listen to 3 players argue with a marshal why they shouldn't have to take respective hits because I had distracted them first .
    They walked in to a room tap ,tap ,tap
    Marshalllllll we were distracted by him .
    Or while in a fairly good position holding a corridor getting hits only to hear marshal I lost me mag can I walk over there to get it (my position ) then walked over to his mates to tell them exactly where and how I was positioned

    Langley , Virginia



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭✭ Fianna88


    Gatling wrote: »
    Try having to listen to 3 players argue with a marshal why they shouldn't have to take respective hits because I had distracted them first .
    They walked in to a room tap ,tap ,tap
    Marshalllllll we were distracted by him .
    Or while in a fairly good position holding a corridor getting hits only to hear marshal I lost me mag can I walk over there to get it (my position ) then walked over to his mates to tell them exactly where and how I was positioned

    I have experienced very similar situations as well it is bloody infuriating!! I have actually put all my gear up for sale I cant put up with it any more as I think its only a matter of time before I really lose it with someone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,130 ✭✭✭✭ Lemming


    Fianna88 wrote: »
    I have experienced very similar situations as well it is bloody infuriating!! I have actually put all my gear up for sale I cant put up with it any more as I think its only a matter of time before I really lose it with someone.

    TBH, throwing your arms up and storming off is only spiting yourself if you like playing airsoft. You'll find people cheating in every sport/game you can think of, either because they think they can get away with it or simply "because". Plenty of on-the-ball/off-the-ball incidents in football (to use an easy example), doesn't mean you see people selling off their boots and walking away. Just accept that some people are dicks, deal with the matter, and game-on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,643 MRnotlob606


    I sometimes don't take hits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,130 ✭✭✭✭ Lemming


    I sometimes don't take hits.

    Why?


  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭✭ Fianna88


    Lemming wrote: »
    TBH, throwing your arms up and storming off is only spiting yourself if you like playing airsoft. You'll find people cheating in every sport/game you can think of, either because they think they can get away with it or simply "because". Plenty of on-the-ball/off-the-ball incidents in football (to use an easy example), doesn't mean you see people selling off their boots and walking away. Just accept that some people are dicks, deal with the matter, and game-on.

    Yes but at least people actually get disciplined in football eg Red card, Yellow card, banned for 6 months or 10 games etc and I know players can still get away with cheating sometimes but at least there is a real system there to deal with them when they are caught. If there actually was a disciplinary system on airsoft sites I could deal with people occasionally getting away with it as I know marshals cannot be everywhere at once but there is just no system to deal with cheaters in airsoft even when they are repeatedly caught!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,130 ✭✭✭✭ Lemming


    Fianna88 wrote: »
    Yes but at least people actually get disciplined in football eg Red card, Yellow card, banned for 6 months or 10 games etc and I know players can still get away with cheating sometimes but at least there is a real system there to deal with them when they are caught. If there actually was a disciplinary system on airsoft sites I could deal with people occasionally getting away with it as I know marshals cannot be everywhere at once but there is just no system to deal with cheaters in airsoft even when they are repeatedly caught!

    Any decent site will have a disciplinary system. It's called three strikes (or similar) at which point you'll have your bags packed and told to be on your way, sometimes being asked never to return depending on the severity of the issue at hand.

    Regards everything else, take it or leave it as it's your choice at the end of the day. The only person stopping you playing airsoft is yourself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭✭ Fianna88


    Lemming wrote: »
    Any decent site will have a disciplinary system. It's called three strikes (or similar) at which point you'll have your bags packed and told to be on your way, sometimes being asked never to return depending on the severity of the issue at hand.

    Regards everything else, take it or leave it as it's your choice at the end of the day. The only person stopping you playing airsoft is yourself.

    In 8 years ive never seen or heard of anyone getting disciplined in anyway. There are threats constantly thrown around by marshals but nothing ever comes of it, and i can tell you ive seen guys get up to 7 warnings in a day on sites that supposedly operate the 3 strike system and geuss what? Nothing happens they are allowed to continue playing all day and are back the very next week doing the same thing.

    I know its my choice to play or not and ive made the choice to give up the sport as I know a lot of people have done in recent times for the same reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭ ElSniperino


    I'm sort of glad that I go to a site that actually deals with cheaters most of the time (The marshall typically needs to see it to act on it, but when they do, they bring the hammer down). More than one person has been taken out of the game/asked to leave for it.

    I know that sometimes I'm hit in the dump pouch or something thick from far away while I'm moving and don't feel it. Typically a marshall or teammate tells me I was hit, and I take it.

    Though what does sort of get to me (and this should maybe be in the annoyances thread) are those people that assume they have hit you and call you a cheater for not taking hits. Last day out I was at, twice this person shot at me. First time he hit the person in front of me and not me, the second time he just missed. He went yelling at the marshall about me cheating. I just went to the marshall, explained my side, and was sent on playing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭✭ Fianna88


    I'm sort of glad that I go to a site that actually deals with cheaters most of the time (The marshall typically needs to see it to act on it, but when they do, they bring the hammer down). More than one person has been taken out of the game/asked to leave for it.

    I know that sometimes I'm hit in the dump pouch or something thick from far away while I'm moving and don't feel it. Typically a marshall or teammate tells me I was hit, and I take it.

    Though what does sort of get to me (and this should maybe be in the annoyances thread) are those people that assume they have hit you and call you a cheater for not taking hits. Last day out I was at, twice this person shot at me. First time he hit the person in front of me and not me, the second time he just missed. He went yelling at the marshall about me cheating. I just went to the marshall, explained my side, and was sent on playing.

    I know what you mean I get that too, I would never assume I hit someone only time I would go to a marshal was if I was 100% sure I had hit the person eg. I can see the BBs bouncing of their face mask! :-)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭ K.Flyer


    If I am fairly sure and I have the chance of a clean shot, I aim for the hands. Not many can feel a clean shot to their knuckles or the fingers without flinching.


  • Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭ ElSniperino


    I just go for centre mass, or whatever is poking out of cover. I don't aim for a sore spot on purpose.

    Also, trying to get a specific part lowers the chance of getting a hit, with waiting/aiming/the part moving.

    I only go for the more exposed parts if, without a doubt, the other person has been ignoring hits on purpose.

    New thing of cheating that I came across on Sunday; if you have 5 lives, you have 5 lives. Not 70. Stop respawning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭ K.Flyer


    ...
    New thing of cheating that I came across on Sunday; if you have 5 lives, you have 5 lives. Not 70. Stop respawning.

    HAHAHA, yep seen that one enough times as well.
    The usual lads back at the safe zone after using up lives, whilst "The Invincibles" carry on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭ d.one


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    If I am fairly sure and I have the chance of a clean shot, I aim for the hands. Not many can feel a clean shot to their knuckles or the fingers without flinching.

    Lol I go centre mass ,but if I know a player that is a poor hit taker I double tap the head or groin and tighs ,unfortunately it's the only way to deal with cheats


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭ mudger


    I sometimes don't take hits.

    There is no justification for this my friend. even if others are not doesn't mean you be as bad as them. BUT at least your honest and there's hope for you lol.

    Do other sites carry out honesty shots like us (Predator Combat Games)? Marshals with guns taking sneaky shots to make sure of hit taking. If you call it your told to stay in game if not, sin binned.

    It is all our responsibility to make sure of fair play. If you see your own team getting hit call them out. embarrass them into it if need be. we have to clean the sport up. that's why competitions are also a problem with this issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭✭ Fianna88


    mudger wrote: »
    There is no justification for this my friend. even if others are not doesn't mean you be as bad as them. BUT at least your honest and there's hope for you lol.

    Do other sites carry out honesty shots like us (Predator Combat Games)? Marshals with guns taking sneaky shots to make sure of hit taking. If you call it your told to stay in game if not, sin binned.

    It is all our responsibility to make sure of fair play. If you see your own team getting hit call them out. embarrass them into it if need be. we have to clean the sport up. that's why competitions are also a problem with this issue.

    Never heard of these honesty shots thats a great idea,


  • Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭ ElSniperino


    I know some players will take offense to the honesty shots, thinking that the marshalls consider them to be cheating and such, that some marshalls are being unfair, etc.

    No solution is perfect, unfortunately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭✭ Fianna88


    I know some players will take offense to the honesty shots, thinking that the marshalls consider them to be cheating and such, that some marshalls are being unfair, etc.

    No solution is perfect, unfortunately.

    Your right no solution is perfect but I wouldnt take offense to it I would be happy the marshals were actively weeding out cheaters, one of the easiest and most effective solutions I have heard of,


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,569 ✭✭✭ K.Flyer


    Fianna88 wrote: »
    Never heard of these honesty shots thats a great idea,

    I have had marshals borrow my pistol for this, but they have to be careful how they carry out the cheater check.
    It wouldn't be fair of a marshal to creep up on some very well hidden player, tap him twice, the player shouts hit, everyone now knows where he is, only for a marshal to say to him to play on.
    It's a tricky one to do, but can be done well to rule out doubts.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭ andy_g


    Only site that used to do this was hrta


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