Cheating in Airsoft/ Not taking you hits

K.Flyer

andy_g wrote: »

Only site that used to do this was hrta

Two other sites, Vacant in Naas (closed) and Hilltop in Wicklow (closed also)

mudger

ElSniperino wrote: »

I know some players will take offense to the honesty shots, thinking that the marshalls consider them to be cheating and such, that some marshalls are being unfair, etc.

No solution is perfect, unfortunately.

I agree but we have found that if players know marshals are out with weapons to perform honesty shots, you have less cheating. We have used it since the beginning 11 years ago and it does work. You only target those who are questionable anyway. I don't mean just shooting anyone you feel like. I would be annoyed if that happened to me if there was no issue with my hit taking.

mudger

Of course theres no point in honesty shots with pistol. Too obvious. Need to use (in my experience) AEG (single shot on soft parts.

Of course you need a good aim lol. Shooting from a predictable angle and not seen by player.

the_syco

I only play airsoft with work crowd, and although most will take their hits, some don't. I'll tell them to take their hits, and then shoot a couple of bursts of full auto that bounce off them at about 6 meters away until they do :P

=-=

From talking to a few people playing there, I think mostly it's the randomers/joe public that don't take their shots, but the clans generally do.

d.one

Redhills Airsoft in kildare cheater check all the time , they used to be really strict and had zero tolerance for cheating which was great but the last 2 times I was there they seemed to be more lax with their approach which is a pity ,still a great site to visit though

Lemming

I disagree with honesty shots as a marshal for three reasons ;

1. It tells a player I suspect them of cheating even if it's entirely random and may causes unnecessary ill will.

2. More importantly, it broadcasts a players position potentially giving other players and unfair advantage.

3. Most importantly, it means marshals are wandering around strapped. Marshals should not ever be carrying whilst marshaling imo. Whilst you're messing about with a gun, you're not watching.

In any case, I have a pair of eyeballs, a marshal vest, a radio, and a loud voice when I need it. What do I need a pistol for to keep players honest?

TerrenceAnth

You should have been round when i was head marshal at fingel. I went on a wave of kicking people off site in the summer.

Domane

I used to be a regular skirmisher but I've had so many "bad" days due to other guys cheating that I haven't gone airsofting since last July. I just target shoot in my back garden these days as the targets take their hits!!!

I was a regular at Redbarn as their marshals kept a close eye on players and I was the recipient of a silver "honor patch" as I played fair. However a new group of players started turning up and they cheated like mad. They would go "out of bounds" and shoot from the flank to get their kills. Calls to marshals about this went unheeded. They would spray an entire mag in your general direction and scream "take your hits" on the basis that they "must" have hit you with at least one of their 300 bbs. In CQB, they would disregard the single shot rule and fire full auto. They would blind fire around corners and it was only for the fact that I pushed one guys muzzle out of my face just in time that I narrowly escaped getting a full auto burst into my face from about 10 inches away. And naturally they wouldn't take their hits. Not boasting here or anything but I'm an excellent shot both at airsoft and using real steel firearms. If I see you, I'll hit you but those guys must have had an invisible force shield as bbs bounced off them whether I was 30 metres away or up close at 5 metres with my pistol. Now I am not the type to scream take your hits or to run to marshals every five minutes but it just got so farcical that I headed back to the safe zone and packed up. As I was leaving, the site owner asked me why I was leaving early and when I told him why, he said that he'd had no complaints. I told him I'd said it to the marshals and he called one of them in. He said that the new guys had reported me for shoving one guys gun away from me (as he was about to fire full auto into my face) and that I had called him a f-ing ar$ehole. This was true tbh but it had been the last straw and I narrowly avoided losing teeth. However to have this turned round on me, a player of good standing as evident by their awarding of silver honor patch for my fair play, was too much and I ripped their honor patch off my bdu, handed it back and said goodbye. Haven't been skirmishing since. I miss it like hell but what's the point when there are so many cheating gob****es infesting sites these days and the owners turning a blind eye in case they lose their new customers.

Rant over.

Jsmurff

I would have thought that with a comunity as small as ours people behaving like this would gain a reputation for doing so.

It's my experience that these groups flare up in waves every now and again but usually dissipate as most of them will loose interest due to having attention spans of a squirrel on speed.

When I was out skirmishing I got to know the good from the bad and would only turn up on the same days as them that way we all had fun and if some Rambo jackass showed up they got hell.

It also made the game more interesting as we all knew each other well enough to guess what each other would do in given surcumstances

ibstar

still haven't played airsoft, but played paintball and seen similar things happening there.
Last time a 2 man rambo team were camping a small lodge and wouldn't take hits and wouldn't go back to respawn.
I sneaked around and shot both of them from about 5 meteres in their behinds until they lifted up their guns.

nastros

One of the big issue I find is the gear we all wear. I have noticed times where If I am shot in the chest rig in the back for example I dont notice it. Luckily other players around me point it out and I will walk away. But I have been in games where players will have helmets on and the bbs bouncing off there heads all day and they will not notice. So I just aim for there legs and then they genuinely put up there hand. The other side of this is bb deflection any little obstruction between me and you will cause the bb to deflect majorly this is something people seem to ignore in woodland games and assume because they could see you they can hit you ignoring the briars and other stuff in there way. But I still think a big culprit is the tac gear everyone wears. Im really surprised that no one has come up with a better hit indication method. I am not saying by the way cheating doesnt exist it totally does. But there are also people out there who are so arrogant they believe they cant miss and seem to think bbs are super accurate especially into the wind which is always hilarious to watch. I think it is a very difficult thing to do marshaling a game. As you have 2 groups cheaters and players who think they never miss. Personally I do my best to take my hits in some cases I will take a hit even if im not 100% sure I was hit. But there have also been times that I was hit and didn't notice.

Lemming

TBH; you can hear BBs bouncing off your kit more often than not if you cannot feel them; ESPECIALLY helmets

nastros

Oh helmets ya but again really down to the situation like in an area with a lot of noise people shouting its easy to miss the sound. I also am talking about on rare occasion not all of the time. Its just the unfortunate fact that in a game based on honesty you will always have the dishonest.

K.Flyer

To be fair, I imagine every single player has been hit at least once and not known about it, it happens.
I was once hit on the sole of my boot as I ran for cover. Only for the marshal was watching my game plan, he saw it bounce of the boot. He waved to me and pointed at his boot, I understood and the hand went up. I had no idea that I was hit at all, and quite possibly the shooter may not of realised it either, but it was all good. And if I was the shooter in that scenarios I would give someone the benefit of the doubt, it happens.
It's very different though when BBs are literally bouncing off someone in more than one situation, then it's Marshall time.

D_murph

I have been playing this game for over a year and a half now and Ive seen a lot of non hit taking and theres lots of reasons for it alright.

I always take my hits but there has admittedly been a few times where I didnt know it had happened due to the amount of gear I carry at cqb and possibly more times than that.

Outdoors one day, I only knew they were shooting at me cos the bbs were hitting the (steel) ammo box I was running away with. I had to have been hit otherwise but I certainly didnt feel it. Sneaking into an enemy base and robbing their ammo box and legging it definitely had my adrenaline running high too so I did drop the box once I heard the bbs rattling off it. Hopefully in time.

At CQB, Ive definitely missed a few hits on my tac vest with mag pouches full of mags taking the hit but it was pretty close and the player called to me that I was hit so I took it. Hopefully there was not more but theres no way to know.

However tho, I have been playing as a sniper at outdoor games for over a year now and I have had numerous occasions where I have seen players feel the hit and look around for a bit but then play on cos they think nobody saw it. BS cos I saw them flinch and the bbs defo tracked right up to them til it disappeared into them.

Ive also seen one or 2 guys take a shot to the side or the rear from me and then jump and run for cover only to fire back at where they think it came from. Now thats just taking the pi$$ :mad:.

One particular player at my local site has been on the other half of what should have been a 50/50 with me several times lately. He still manages to fire back at me after I fire at him but he doesnt get hit when I often nail guys much further away with my highly upgraded TM G Spec. If youre that close on my scope, youre toast basically!!

Again, I call BS and he has gloated to me once that he shot me "3 times in a row now" when I defo got him twice out of that 3 but he didnt take it :rolleyes:.

There was another lad banned around a year ago cos he was just unreal tho. Blatantly not taking hits and Im talking full mags worth of them while out in the open or in cover but not even trying to take cover tho and yet giving out to other players for not taking theirs ironically :rolleyes:. He got caught lovely by a marshal/player one day while verbally abusing someone for this and, well it was coming to him lol.

These are the bad eggs tho and I certainly wouldnt have stayed at this game so long now if it was like that all the time and definitely not as a sniper either. Thats how you really know who is the honest person and the cheater alike and Ive spent a damn fortune on my rifle so I know when that .3bb has made its mark. Sometimes, you just miss, other times, at long range they just dont feel it but when they flinch and have a look around, then you know :rolleyes:.

On a good note tho, most players do take even that single bb hit. They might be startled by it and even have a look to know where the feck it came from but they do take it tho.

Unless it got really bad, I certainly wouldnt quit this wonderful and unique sport because of a few cheaters tho. The loss would be too much for me lol :P

d.one

I personally don't buy the helmet and tack vest excuse,bbs make a very distinctive sound when hitting a helmet ,and if a Tac vest is stopping you taking your hits because you can't hear or feel them hitting you it's time to stop wearing it ,just saying

Gatling

d.one wrote: »

I personally don't buy the helmet and tack vest excuse,bbs make a very distinctive sound when hitting a helmet ,and if a Tac vest is stopping you taking your hits because you can't hear or feel them hitting you it's time to stop wearing it ,just saying

Sorry but I had it out in sim tac recently while running back to enter a vehicle I didn't feel several hits to the back of my chest rig .no hydration pouch or small back pack on it .
I wad literally in the back of a jeep when a non player opened my door G you were hit several times in the back .
Jumped out apologised to the lad who had got Me shook his hand .
And carried on while I counted down my respawn time .

At times and in bad conditions you might not hear or feel a hit .
It's pretty common while it's not blantant cheating all you can do is inform the player or marshal

shooterjay

im a newbie and i was very aware of takeing my hits, but sometimes i just didnt feel it, so i guessed and pup myself out in case. i was so freeking paranoid. i only got into one arguement caus a veteran said i got hit on the brim of my cap and i didnt call it. whats up with that ? if a bullet grazed your hat it wouldnt kill ye ?

d.one

Gatling wrote: »

Sorry but I had it out in sim tac recently while running back to enter a vehicle I didn't feel several hits to the back of my chest rig .no hydration pouch or small back pack on it .
I wad literally in the back of a jeep when a non player opened my door G you were hit several times in the back .
Jumped out apologised to the lad who had got Me shook his hand .
And carried on while I counted down my respawn time .

At times and in bad conditions you might not hear or feel a hit .
It's pretty common while it's not blantant cheating all you can do is inform the player or marshal

Not having a go here mate I'm sure your an honest player and I'm sure it was an honest mistake ,but may be you shouldn't wear a tack vest to avoid similar situations ,case in point ,that said real solders storm real building in real situations when the adrenaline is pumping and don't feel grazes from real bullets ,I understand there are times like this also
That said there are times you have a guy dead to rights you hit him he looks up so see where you are so you know he has been hit and Carrys on regardless ,those are the times that frustrates the sh1t out of me

Lemming

d.one wrote: »

Not having a go here mate I'm sure your an honest player and I'm sure it was an honest mistake ,but may be you shouldn't wear a tack vest to avoid similar situations

The same thing happens with folds and creases of clothing sometimes too; does that mean airsofters should stop wearing clothes too? I'm not sure if my sanity could survive the sight of that.

Accidents DO happen, it's how you as a player handle them when observed or pointed out to you.

,case in point ,that said real solders storm real building in real situations when the adrenaline is pumping and don't feel grazes from real bullets ,I understand there are times like this also

I cannot believe you just tried to do that ....

... have you considered that in real life there is - to state the captain obvious, captain - a real risk to life from bullets, so a soldier (or anyone else for that matter) will do whatever they have to to get the f*ck out of harms way when lead is getting chucked at them.

That said there are times you have a guy dead to rights you hit him he looks up so see where you are so you know he has been hit and Carrys on regardless ,those are the times that frustrates the sh1t out of me

See my first comment above about how you as a player handle such situations.

Also, are you 100% certrain you hit him. Did you see the BB strike? Or are you following the logical fallacy of "I pointed that way therefore it MUST have hit him".

I've been in situations where I've had BBs fly mere millimetres from my face and I've flinched to get out of the way (by pure chance), or I've had BBs impact walls/trees/whatever right beside me and I've looked to see where it's coming from, but I've never actually been hit. I've had a crazy moment in CQB where I breached a room with a pistol and engaged a player (also with a pistol) and neither of us actually managed to hit one another. We had a good laugh about that whilst wondering how on earth neither of us hit each other, agreed to take a hit each and went on our seperate ways back to regen.

As a marshal I've seen all manner of scenarios where someone has not actually been hit despite howling accusations to the contrary. I'm not defending non-hit taking, but I am pointing out that often it's players thinking they've hit someone when they haven't that is the real root cause of "that b@*stards not taking his f*cking hits".

d.one

Lemming wrote: »

The same thing happens with folds and creases of clothing sometimes too; does that mean airsofters should stop wearing clothes too? I'm not sure if my sanity could survive the sight of that.

Accidents DO happen, it's how you as a player handle them when observed or pointed out to you.



I cannot believe you just tried to do that ....

... have you considered that in real life there is - to state the captain obvious, captain - a real risk to life from bullets, so a soldier (or anyone else for that matter) will do whatever they have to to get the f*ck out of harms way when lead is getting chucked at them.




See my first comment above about how you as a player handle such situations.

Also, are you 100% certrain you hit him. Did you see the BB strike? Or are you following the logical fallacy of "I pointed that way therefore it MUST have hit him".

I've been in situations where I've had BBs fly mere millimetres from my face and I've flinched to get out of the way (by pure chance), or I've had BBs impact walls/trees/whatever right beside me and I've looked to see where it's coming from, but I've never actually been hit. I've had a crazy moment in CQB where I breached a room with a pistol and engaged a player (also with a pistol) and neither of us actually managed to hit one another. We had a good laugh about that whilst wondering how on earth neither of us hit each other, agreed to take a hit each and went on our seperate ways back to regen.

As a marshal I've seen all manner of scenarios where someone has not actually been hit despite howling accusations to the contrary. I'm not defending non-hit taking, but I am pointing out that often it's players thinking they've hit someone when they haven't that is the real root cause of "that b@*stards not taking his f*cking hits".

Maybe you should get off your high horse there pal ,your not the only one that has marshalled sites ,I acknowledge there are times when there's genuine mistakes ,but there's only so much you can blame on helmets and tack vests ,sometimes you need to call a spade a spade ,

Gatling

Think I'll wear a kilt and tshirt next game out just to be sure

Lemming

d.one wrote: »

Maybe you should get off your high horse there pal

I don't know you from Adam, so "pal" yourself and wind your neck in.

,your not the only one that has marshalled sites ,I acknowledge there are times when there's genuine mistakes ,but there's only so much you can blame on helmets and tack vests ,sometimes you need to call a spade a spade ,

Never said I was the only one who has marshalled sites. I've been playing a very long time, and marshalling an equally long time so I gave the opinion of my experience. You also did not call a spade a spade, you were just plain ignorant and patronising about it to Gatling.

Gatling wrote: »

Think I'll wear a kilt and tshirt next game out just to be sure

Please don't. There are many things in this world I have seen that have not fazed me; that image would not be among them ...

thermo

Gatling wrote: »

Think I'll wear a kilt and tshirt next game out just to be sure

Who do ya think ya are........ Dave??

Gatling

thermo wrote: »

Who do ya think ya are........ Dave??

It's been suggested a team buy for a future event

thermo

Gatling wrote: »

It's been suggested a team buy for a future event

You will try use any excuse to wear a tan Molle covered sporran.......

Back on topic.... Cheating..... Eh ..... Sucks.....

d.one

Lemming wrote: »

I don't know you from Adam, so "pal" yourself and wind your neck in.
Your are quite correct pal I don't know ,just wondering do you play Airsoft in ireland regularly ? I see you are located in the UK ? ??
I play Airsoft in ireland every week and see the stuff that goes on ,I play all the sites mentioned on this thread ,
I did not wish to offend Gatling

Lemming

d.one wrote: »

Your are quite correct pal I don't know ,just wondering do you play Airsoft in ireland regularly ? I see you are located in the UK ? ??
I play Airsoft in ireland every week and see the stuff that goes on ,I play all the sites mentioned on this thread

Heh.

d.one

Lemming wrote: »

TBH; you can hear BBs bouncing off your kit more often than not if you cannot feel them; ESPECIALLY helmets

Lol

d.one

Lemming wrote: »

Heh.

So I take it from your response that you don't play here regularly if ever ?