Reputable places to get Puppy

MrWalsh

Lemlin wrote: »

High prices are only fuelling the DD market.

No they are not. Their business model works - do you hear of many legitimate breeders complaining that they are left with expensive pups they cant sell?

Its the puppy farmers and BYBs who are fuelling the DD market and it is DD who are facilitating their business model.

223vmax

MrWalsh wrote: »

Yes, that is my opinion.

Why not when you can get a perfectly good IKC registered dog for that money?

andreac

223vmax wrote: »

How can you expect DD sellers to have health cert for dogs for the prices they're asking? You can buy an IKC reg pup of DD for approx €300. You can buy a health certified IKC pup from top dogs for €600 and above. Not everyone has €600 to spend on a pup or is willing to spend €600 on a pup. Is your opinion that they shouldn't have the right to buy the €300 pup?

No, its my opinion that these breeders shouldn't be breeding unless the parents are health tested. They shouldn't be breeding pups in the first place, let alone selling them.

People can buy what they want, but again, the whole point of this thread is where to buy a pup thats reputable, and im sorry, but DD is far from that.

ShaShaBear

223vmax wrote: »

How can you expect DD sellers to have health cert for dogs for the prices they're asking? You can buy an IKC reg pup of DD for approx €300. You can buy a health certified IKC pup from top dogs for €600 and above. Not everyone has €600 to spend on a pup or is willing to spend €600 on a pup. Is your opinion that they shouldn't have the right to buy the €300 pup?

It is our opinion that if they are not health certified, you could be out WAAAAAAY more than an extra €300 on vet bills. If you cant afford a pup that's been properly bred, with extensive genetic ancestry available and a line of breeders that have been doing their utmost to EXCLUDE genetic illnesses and deformities from their line, how are you going to afford the vet costs for a pup who's breeders did none of the above?

MrWalsh

223vmax wrote: »

Why not when you can get a perfectly good IKC registered dog for that money?

Because you are fuelling the industry of puppy farming and BYB. Have a read of the thread if you dont understand this.

Its the same reason people shouldnt buy black market goods - they do because they cant afford the goods, but they shouldnt because they dont know what they are getting. Cigarettes are a good example.

223vmax

ShaShaBear wrote: »

It is our opinion that if they are not health certified, you could be out WAAAAAAY more than an extra €300 on vet bills. If you cant afford a pup that's been properly bred, with extensive genetic ancestry available and a line of breeders that have been doing their utmost to EXCLUDE genetic illnesses and deformities from their line, how are you going to afford the vet costs for a pup who's breeders did none of the above?

Same principle applies to second hand car market. So why don't we ban the sale of second hand cars?

andreac

223vmax wrote: »

Why not when you can get a perfectly good IKC registered dog for that money?

IKC reg means nothing but a piece of paper showing their pedigree, nothing more.

Id rather a health tested dog that's not IKC reg than one that is IKC and not health tested.

223vmax

MrWalsh wrote: »

Because you are fuelling the industry of puppy farming and BYB. Have a read of the thread if you dont understand this.

Its the same reason people shouldnt buy black market goods - they do because they cant afford the goods, but they shouldnt because they dont know what they are getting. Cigarettes are a good example.

Not everyone selling IKC reg pups on DD is a puppy farm, you make the assumption that they all are or BYB. You can get a perfectly good IKC reg pup on DD.

Lemlin

andreac wrote: »

No they arent, back yard breeders are fueling the market with cheap, badly bred pups.

If you cant afford 600 or whatever now, then save for longer and wait until you do have the money, its not rocket science :rolleyes:

I waited 28 years to get my Rottweiler, until i was in a position to buy a well bred one and one that i could afford.
So whats the issue waiting an extra few months and putting money aside until you can afford one? Its not 1000's you need, only an extra couple of hundred.

But the question remains - why is the market there? I imagine 90% of owners would love to buy a pup from the respective breeder's club who should ensure that both parents are health tested. They resort to DD because they can't afford that. So why can't the breed clubs come together and agree to look at prices? To try and make dogs that are properly bred more affordable for people? As I've said, I honestly can't see how it can be claimed that the cost of a litter of pups runs near some of the prices quoted, even with the best of care. I've seen extreme scenarios given on here before about emergency vet bills but they still didn't come near the price a litter of pups can obtain.

To be honest, most dogs are at least €300 cheaper on Donedeal so its often more than "only an extra couple of hundred". As others have pointed out, people will then have care and maintenance of the dog on top of same.

I'm a great believer in dogs for children. I'm fortunate enough that we have a large area and 3 dogs for my children to play with. I don't think any family willing to give a dog the care and attention it wants and needs should be denied a dog.

MrWalsh

Lemlin wrote: »

I'm a great believer in dogs for children. I'm fortunate enough that we have a large area and 3 dogs for my children to play with. I don't think any family willing to give a dog the care and attention it wants and needs should be denied a dog.

So why cant they get a dog from a rescue?

MrWalsh

223vmax wrote: »

Not everyone selling IKC reg pups on DD is a puppy farm, you make the assumption that they all are or BYB. You can get a perfectly good IKC reg pup on DD.

No, but I refer you back to my earlier posts. The industry is being facilitated by people buying them cheap on DD.

Not every black market cigarette is a counterfeit, but you have no way of telling which ones are and which ones arent.

andreac

Lemlin wrote: »

But the question remains - why is the market there? I imagine 90% of owners would love to buy a pup from the respective breeder's club who should ensure that both parents are health tested. They resort to DD because they can't afford that. So why can't the breed clubs come together and agree to look at prices? To try and make dogs that are properly bred more affordable for people? As I've said, I honestly can't see how it can be claimed that the cost of a litter of pups runs near some of the prices quoted, even with the best of care. I've seen extreme scenarios given on here before about emergency vet bills but they still didn't come near the price a litter of pups can obtain.

To be honest, most dogs are at least €300 cheaper on Donedeal so its often more than "only an extra couple of hundred". As others have pointed out, people will then have care and maintenance of the dog on top of same.

I'm a great believer in dogs for children. I'm fortunate enough that we have a large area and 3 dogs for my children to play with. I don't think any family willing to give a dog the care and attention it wants and needs should be denied a dog.

Then there is the rescue option, plenty of pups that way too if people cant afford a pedigree dog.

223vmax

MrWalsh wrote: »

Not every black market cigarette is a counterfeit, but you have no way of telling which ones are and which ones arent.

And that s the punt at the money they're being sold at.....

Lemlin

MrWalsh wrote: »

So why cant they get a dog from a rescue?

I already explained a story above where a friend tried for over 12 months to get a suitable dog from a rescue.

Some people also want a pup that they can socialise with their children from a young age.

andreac wrote: »

Then there is the rescue option, plenty of pups that way too if people cant afford a pedigree dog.

Some people want a purebred dog so that they can be sure of temperament etc. A suitable pup may not always be available also e.g. my friend who wanted a Pug-type.

Lemlin

MrWalsh wrote: »

No they are not. Their business model works - do you hear of many legitimate breeders complaining that they are left with expensive pups they cant sell?

Its the puppy farmers and BYBs who are fuelling the DD market and it is DD who are facilitating their business model.

But why charge the high price if they aren't trying to make a profit? Why not make it more accessible for people to buy a pure breed, fully health checked pup rather than fuelling the DD market by driving people to it?

You still haven't made any attempt to answer my query. Why couldn't prices be lowered to make pups more affordable?

Regarding your question about legitimate breeders, some breeders are obviously left with dogs because there are some from breed clubs selling on Donedeal.

borderlinemeath

223vmax wrote: »

Same principle applies to second hand car market. So why don't we ban the sale of second hand cars?

People who know nothing about the motor trade who buy second hand cars on the likes of DD will tend to get a mechanic to look over the car to make sure they're not being ripped off with a clocked or damage repaired car. It's something that is ingrained into people when making such a purchase, if they don't know the warning signs of what to look out for they get an expert to do it for them.

Not a chance in hell that the same principle applies to the people who go to buy a pup of DD, at best they come here and are warned of what to look out for, but they don't get a person that has experience with either the breed or even dogs in general to check out the purchase, which people tend to forget, is for a living creature that experiences pain and suffering if badly bred or genetically predisposed to certain illnesses. For a purchase that is meant to be for the lifetime of the pet, ie anything from 12-15 years if they're lucky, people are happy to purchase blind and scrimp on a few hundred quid because they don't do the research.

For the posters that say that there are reputable breeders using DD, it really is subjective. You may think they're reputable, but the fact that they use the same website that facilitates the pain and suffering of other dogs just shows that they really aren't. If they had any kind of reputation they wouldn't have pups or dogs left from a litter, and even if they kept one or two to see which showed potential, they should have enough contacts through the show or field trial circles that they would be receiving regular phone calls regarding pups for purchase. ie if you have a good reputation - you don't need to advertise, your phone should be ringing regardless.

223vmax

Lemlin wrote: »

But why charge the high price if they aren't trying to make a profit? Why not make it more accessible for people to buy a pure breed, fully health checked pup rather than fuelling the DD market by driving people to it?

You still haven't made any attempt to answer my query. Why couldn't prices be lowered to make pups more affordable?

Regarding your question about legitimate breeders, some breeders are obviously left with dogs because there are some from breed clubs selling on Donedeal.

Totally agree. How can you justify a price of >€400 for a vet checked/scored IKC reg dog. Surely breeders asking for top money are profiteering.

borderlinemeath

Lemlin wrote: »

But why charge the high price if they aren't trying to make a profit? Why not make it more accessible for people to buy a pure breed, fully health checked pup rather than fuelling the DD market by driving people to it?

You still haven't made any attempt to answer my query. Why couldn't prices be lowered to make pups more affordable?

Regarding your question about legitimate breeders, some breeders are obviously left with dogs because there are some from breed clubs selling on Donedeal.

Right, say for example you charge the same as the back yard breeder 10 miles up the road. You meet with the prospective buyers and they want the pup for Christmas. But it's something that you don't agree with as it's not beneficial for the pup, but the byb up the road has no such qualms letting a pup go because he doesn't care. Who does the customer buy from?

ie if you vet your customers because you care for your stock and they aren't necessarily what you would consider to be responsible owners (maybe they live in the country and want to put an ecollar on the dog and they're surrounded by sheep) but the byb doesn't vet them he just wants to shift his stock for profit - the customer is still going to buy from the byb because he can, or at least can do it without the interview or the wait.

223vmax

borderlinemeath wrote: »

People who know nothing about the motor trade who buy second hand cars on the likes of DD will tend to get a mechanic to look over the car to make sure they're not being ripped off with a clocked or damage repaired car.

No they don't tend to as the majority don't.

kylith

223vmax wrote: »

How can you expect DD sellers to have health cert for dogs for the prices they're asking? You can buy an IKC reg pup of DD for approx €300. You can buy a health certified IKC pup from top dogs for €600 and above. Not everyone has €600 to spend on a pup or is willing to spend €600 on a pup. Is your opinion that they shouldn't have the right to buy the €300 pup?

Quite often you'll buy 'registered' pup for E300 but 'the forms haven't been sent from the KC yet, so we'll post them on to you when they are, ok?' Then the phone number mysteriously stops working. See in on here all the time.

223vmax

kylith wrote: »

Quite often you'll buy 'registered' pup for E300 but 'the forms haven't been sent from the KC yet, so we'll post them on to you when they are, ok?' Then the phone number mysteriously stops working. See in on here all the time.

These are examples of when things go bad. Equally things can go well. Picking of examples of when things go wrong doesn't add to the argument. Well I knew a man that .......blah blah blah.....

borderlinemeath

223vmax wrote: »

No they don't tend to as the majority don't.

Really? That's your opinion, what do you know about the motor trade? Are you involved in it at all? You might not want to pay a mechanic to look at a second hand car but plenty of people do, they either get a professional service like the AA or ask a friend or family member.

You never did reply when you were asked if you bred your bitch when she was 7 years of age either by the way. Any chance of an answer?

223vmax

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Really? That's your opinion, what do you know about the motor trade? Are you involved in it at all? You might not want to pay a mechanic to look at a second hand car but plenty of people do, they either get a professional service like the AA or ask a friend or family member.

You never did reply when you were asked if you bred your bitch when she was 7 years of age either by the way. Any chance of an answer?

Yes I did. No problems and nothing wrong with doing that as the bitch was very healthy. And before you jump in getting high and mighty I'm not seeking your opinion on it neither...

delahuntv

I haven't read most fo the thread as most of it is the usual anger stuff which in most cases is no help to anyone.

To the OP.

Firstly decide what breed of dog you would like and ask what the dog is for, what care can be given, will it be left on its own during the day, what size of play area is available, what age group is in the family, si dog hair an issue.

Example, if there are young children and dog won't be on its own and it will very much be a pet, then a bichon or maltese or a cross of those would be perfect.

If its to provide security and could be on its own, then a large breed such as german sheppard is where you would look.

Once that's decided, I would check some of the rescues as many "puppy Christmas Presents" get abandoned over the next couple of months.

Also, despite what some may say, done deal is another option, but like anything on done deal, be sure of who you are buyign it from. Common sense is really all that's needed.

Another alternative is to check if there is a facebook group for the breed / cross breed you are looking at - if so, join it and see if anyone has one that needs a new home.


On my dog - we got it off done deal - person met us in a pub carpark, but without the pup. He wanted to vet us! and if he didn't like us, he was going to tell us the pup was sold. - He still sends an odd email asking how things are! (she has a wardrobe, her own bed, an acre of garden to play in and gets brought to work everyday and enjoys fresh chicken and baby food as a princess deserves!! )

borderlinemeath

223vmax wrote: »

Yes I did. No problems and nothing wrong with doing that.

I personally think there is. My bitch is seven and neutered anyway. But I think that anything over even 5 or even 6 is too old, regardless of what the IKC/KC state is an acceptable age.

And once again avoiding answers, what about your involvement in the motor trade? You can't just make a statement and expect it to be believable if you've no experience within the particular trade bar buying a few second hands yourself! You're fairly good at giving your own opinion yet don't want to hear anything that goes against yours! :rolleyes:

223vmax

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I personally think there is. My bitch is seven and neutered anyway. But I think that anything over even 5 or even 6 is too old, regardless of what the IKC/KC state is an acceptable age.

And once again avoiding answers, what about your involvement in the motor trade? You can't just make a statement and expect it to be believable if you've no experience within the particular trade bar buying a few second hands yourself! You're fairly good at giving your own opinion yet don't want to hear anything that goes against yours! :rolleyes:

Yes was involved in the motor trade for a while. Same principles applies "buyer beware". You wouldn't believe the amount of people that buy a car without getting it independently checked out.

P.S I'd consider each animal individually rather than strictly obeying guidelines. Guidelines are exactly that - guidelines.

sillysmiles

OP - any idea for what kind of pup you are looking for (breed - wise)?

MrWalsh

223vmax wrote: »

Yes was involved in the motor trade for a while. Same principles applies "buyer beware". You wouldn't believe the amount of people that buy a car without getting it independently checked out.

A car is not a life though and has not been produced by keeping its mother in horrific conditions.

223vmax

MrWalsh wrote: »

A car is not a life though and has not been produced by keeping its mother in horrific conditions.

Sir, we were talking in the context of financial implications.

PeteFalk78

Its simple really.

Pay the extra money to get the dog from a reputable breeder - lower risk.
Pay less to get the dog from DD - higher risk.

As mentioned in OP - buyer beware. I bought a GR from donedeal. I looked at 4 dogs (more specifically their surroundings and parents) before I chose one.

3 years later I have the happiest, healthiest and safest dog I could ever have hoped for.