Reputable places to get Puppy

tk123

Gael23 wrote: »

We wont rush into it either way and I do understand what you say. We paid £150 in 2000 so thats quite a jump, although I suppose it is to be expected. To be honest apart from browsing DD, we haven't made proper enquires as its not quite the right time just yet. Prices there seem to range from €250-400

It's not THAT much of a jump really though it? You paid approx €190 15 years ago - add say €20 inflation a year = €490 in total. Trust me the extra few hundred euro could save you a lot of time and money in blood sweat and tears. Even with health insurance if the dog had health problems there's the time you need to take off for vet visits and all the little extra bits and pieces that go along with it, not to mention the blood, sweat and tears that go into trying to fix all the problems and medical problems are a lot easier to sort in my experience than behavioural problem

And it's not just limited to pedigrees - cross breeds can have problems too. I remember very early on being given a smug lecture by a guy in our park telling me that's why he'd never but pedigree dog and got a crossbreed instead blah blah blah....his dog is crippled now from snapped cruciates.

odckdo

Gael23 wrote: »

Thats how I see it and I can see how it can be difficult to separate the good from bad. We lost a purebred cocker spaniel 10 weeks ago now so will probably just get another one or maybe a spaniel crossbreed when the time is right.

Just to say going the IKC/pure bred way doesn't mean you are guaranteed a pup with perfect health and personality.

*Some* IKC cocker spaniel breeders I have dealt with will offload a pup as quickly as possible. No breeder wants to be left with pups. You will need to research beforehand and maybe bring someone with you who has good experience of dogs and knows what to look for.

I found a post on boards years ago suggesting that the quality of cockers in Ireland is not of a good standard. The UK could be another option but obviously more hassle. http://www.champdogs.co.uk/

Recently 'Dogs First' posted on FB his bad experience of getting a cocker pup from a IKC breeder:-
https://www.facebook.com/DogsFirstIreland/posts/883081881755189

EDIT: another option would be a working cocker rather than a show type?

Lemlin

odckdo wrote: »

Just to say going the IKC/pure bred way doesn't mean you are guaranteed a pup with perfect health and personality.

*Some* IKC cocker spaniel breeders I have dealt with will offload a pup as quickly as possible. No breeder wants to be left with pups. You will need to research beforehand and maybe bring someone with you who has good experience of dogs and knows what to look for.

I found a post on boards years ago suggesting that the quality of cockers in Ireland is not of a good standard. The UK could be another option but obviously more hassle. http://www.champdogs.co.uk/

Recently 'Dogs First' posted on FB his bad experience of getting a cocker pup from a IKC breeder:-
https://www.facebook.com/DogsFirstIreland/posts/883081881755189

EDIT: another option would be a working cocker rather than a show type?

I'm glad someone pointed it out because I've been watching this thread with interest.

I've seen posters push the breed clubs but can anyone confirm if every single breeder recommended by a breed club has completed the relevant health checks on their dogs before breeding?

Because I can confirm being given breeder details and contacting breeders to find their dogs did not have health checks yet they were still charging €600-€650.

In one case, a woman rather embarrassingly told me she didn't even show her own dog but was charging same because she had signed a contract with the previous breeder of the mother stating she had to charge at least €600 to not devalue the line. Her dog had not been hip scored or eye tested.

I ended up going to NI for a dog then as the standard offered in ROI was so poor for the prices charged. For me the one driving factor for the "reputable breeders" I was being pointed to was profit.

MrWalsh wrote: »

Sorry guys, but anyone who buys a dog on Done Deal is contributing to puppy farming at worst and back yard breeding at best.

No legitimate breeder is selling a dog on Done Deal.

This is incorrect. I know a highly reputable breeder who uses Donedeal if needed.

He would generally breed his pups and keep about 3 of the pups for six months. After six months, he will pick which one/two he feels is best for the show circuit and sells the others, on Donedeal if needed at an appropriate "pet price" as he refers to it.

As he said to me, he can't expect to charge show dog prices for pups he is not willing to show himself. Just like he doesn't expect the other show people he knows to buy pups he has decided are not worth keeping for showing having kept them to that age.

He'd also give a very different opinion to the IKC/show circuit to a lot of posters on here. It is highly competitive and some breed clubs can be very cliquey.

It is very much "buyer beware" which ever route you go by and I would suggest a lot of research and having your data ready before buying. Some of the posters on here do have great knowledge but I do feel they have too much trust of some of the institutions involved in the Irish dog market.

Gael23

Lemlin wrote: »

I'

As he said to me, he can't expect to charge show dog prices for pups he is not willing to show himself. Just like he doesn't expect the other show people he knows to buy pups he has decided are not worth keeping for showing having kept them to that age.

He'd also give a very different opinion to the IKC/show circuit to a lot of posters on here. It is highly competitive and some breed clubs can be very cliquey.

We would only want a family pet/companion dog too. Our last dog was never bred or shown all 15 years of his life. Thats what makes it hard to justify paying the sort of money IKC Breeders ask for.

Lemlin

Gael23 wrote: »

We would only want a family pet/companion dog too. Our last dog was never bred or shown all 15 years of his life. Thats what makes it hard to justify paying the sort of many IKC Breeders ask for.

It's a question I often ask the IKC club breeders in here. That will state themselves that it's very hard to get a pup suitable for showing and you may not even get one from a litter.

Therefore why charge show dog prices for pups not suitable for showing? My friend is realistic and realised this which is why he has a show dog price for people who have ordered and pick their pup at birth hoping to show it and a pet price for others.

You also need to realise your audience on this forum. It's like going into the Man Utd supporters club and asking if Liverpool would be a good team to go and watch! That's not to say it's not good advice but it is biased by certain posters who are members of these clubs themselves.

My advice would be do the research and look up the data yourself. I ended up paying £330, about €400 at the time, for a dog in NI with all health checks, that's father was an Irish champion, and had far better breeding than any dog in ROI that I was offered for €600-€650.

AryaStark

I too got my dog off Done Deal and am very happy with her. But I think that I was lucky and I would not use it again. Since getting her I have heard so any sad stories and I have to say that I do not agree with sites such as done deal selling live animals ... there is no protection for the animals and anybody can go online and buy one.

andreac

But whether you want to show it or not, has no relevance to stopping the dog getting ill or suffering with health issues. All pedigree dogs should be health tested before breeding. That has nothing to do with it being shown or just being a pet.

Its to do with their health and well being. You should not even consider a breeder that hasn't health tested the parents.

andreac

Gael23 wrote: »

We would only want a family pet/companion dog too. Our last dog was never bred or shown all 15 years of his life. Thats what makes it hard to justify paying the sort of many IKC Breeders ask for.

Reputable breeders charge more because they put so much more into the health and well being of their dogs, by health testing and caring much better for the litter than back yard breeders.

It costs huge money to raise a litter properly, so hence the higher price.

boomerang

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

Wasn't free either time. My little pup is half Scotty x Jack Russell he was 120 euros and our other girl was 250 euros, full bred. Setter And like I said I didn't want to but as I wasn't the one driving had no choice hence the word my ex.

Holy god, 120 euro? For a crossbreed? For that money you'd have a neutered, microchipped, vaccinated and wormed crossbreed from a rescue. :eek:

When she charged you that much, even if the litter was accidental, she was profiting from it.

kylith

Gael23 wrote: »

We would only want a family pet/companion dog too. Our last dog was never bred or shown all 15 years of his life. Thats what makes it hard to justify paying the sort of many IKC Breeders ask for.

The money goes toward paying for the health testing of the parents and vet care of the pups - just because you don't plan to show the dog doesn't mean it's immune from genetic problems like hip dysplasia, blindness, or heart problems.

I know more than one person who has bought a pup off DoneDeal and wound up spending many times what they saved by not going to a breeder on vet bills when the pup has developed a disease that could have been prevented by inoculation, or had ongoing vet fees for a chronic genetic problem.

It's like this, you can pay E5000 for a car that's had regular maintenance, been kept in a garage, and been regularly washed, or you can pay E500 for a car that's never been maintained and been left in a field for years. Which do you think you'll spend more on in the long run?

Lemlin

andreac wrote: »

But whether you want to show it or not, has no relevance to stopping the dog getting ill or suffering with health issues. All pedigree dogs should be health tested before breeding. That has nothing to do with it being shown or just being a pet.

Its to do with their health and well being. You should not even consider a breeder that hasn't health tested the parents.

I'd agree but why then would a breed club be giving out the details of breeders who have not completed relevant health checks?

Whether you want to show or not is relevant to the price IMO. As a show person, would you not agree? A pet dog should not cost as much as one that is suitable for showing. My friend has had Irish champions and he certainly thinks so.

andreac wrote: »

Reputable breeders charge more because they put so much more into the health and well being of their dogs, by health testing and caring much better for the litter than back yard breeders.

It costs huge money to raise a litter properly, so hence the higher price.

I'd agree the higher price is sometimes justified but not always. As I've shown above, not all breeders recommended by breed clubs are going through these rigorous checks. For all the stories about Donedeal, I'm sure people have plenty about breed clubs also.

By the way, I'm no fan of Donedeal, I just feel people should employ "buyer beware" whatever route they go. Of course, nothing can prepare someone for when they actually see the pup and that's the problem also. I know a man who drove to Wexford to see a pup with a full list of questions our friend, who I mentioned above, had given him to ask the breeder. He saw the pup, fell in love there and then and handed over €300 without even seeing IKC papers. Now that was stupidity.

kylith wrote: »

The money goes toward paying for the health testing of the parents and vet care of the pups - just because you don't plan to show the dog doesn't mean it's immune from genetic problems like hip dysplasia, blindness, or heart problems.

I know more than one person who has bought a pup off DoneDeal and wound up spending many times what they saved by not going to a breeder on vet bills when the pup has developed a disease that could have been prevented by inoculation, or had ongoing vet fees for a chronic genetic problem.

It's like this, you can pay E5000 for a car that's had regular maintenance, been kept in a garage, and been regularly washed, or you can pay E500 for a car that's never been maintained and been left in a field for years. Which do you think you'll spend more on in the long run?

You can also go to a car dealer who tries to sell you a car valued at €3000 for €5000!

Also, I'd point out, all the tests in the world and great results don't mean that a pup still won't get any of the above issues. Good results mean they have less of a chance but problems can still occur.

Knine

Same old argument which you seem to have an issue with Lemlin. It costs the same amount of money to produce a high quality pet puppy as it does to produce a Champion puppy. I'm not going into those costs yet again. You get what you pay for & finding a breeder with healthy tested puppies & full aftersales backup - Dogs come back to me for grooming & any help required. I handstrip to show standard which you seldom get in a dog groomers. My pet homes are as equally delighted with their puppies as the show owners. Afterall they are all family pets. A puppy is also never sold here for showing. They are sold with show potential.

Ms. Pingui

peasant wrote: »

If you want a pure bred pup that comes from parents that have all the relevant health checks done, bred by somebody who knows what they're doing, born into a good environment and that already has basic socialisation and health checks/vacs done ...you're not going to get it for done deal prices (and hence not on done deal)

If you're buying a pure bred pup on done deal, regardless of what the ad says ...most or all of the above haven't been done.

Best case scenario your pup will still end up healthy and with no issues ...highly unlikely though with a breed that has issues (which theses days most of them do).
Worst case scenario you've just financed an unscrupulous back yard breeder for another 3-6 months (until the next litter), contributed to the misery of the broodstock and ended up with a sickly pup that will cost you loads in money and grief.

Where done deal works is for mongrels (genuine ones, not the ones with made up names) and other similar "accidents" . People had pups by accident not design and need to find good homes for them. It is fair to give them some money (food, meds, time invested) but genuine people will ask for none or just very little.
Here of course you get pot luck ...nobody knows what the finished dog will look like, what its most likely behaviour will be or if it will be healthy or not.
Then again ...mongrels usually are healthier than pure breeds and the socialisation and education of your pup will not be influenced by preconceived ideas of how your dog should react (according to breed standard) so it's really in your hands and your fault if it goes wrong

Here's one such mongrel from done deal ...happy and healthy and just fabulous....and he cost less than his first bag of food
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93899130&postcount=9580

Your dog is gorgeous! I have a mongrel myself, I got him from a friend who had an unintended litter of pups and all they wanted was to get a loving home for the pups.
People like this are not motivated by profit but unless you know the person you can't really be sure. The "pup" is 8 now and he's absolutely fab, I couldn't ask for a better dog. I love mongrels, they are so quirky!

borderlinemeath

Ms. Pingui wrote: »

Your dog is gorgeous! I have a mongrel myself, I got him from a friend who had an unintended litter of pups and all they wanted was to get a loving home for the pups.
People like this are not motivated by profit but unless you know the person you can't really be sure. The "pup" is 8 now and he's absolutely fab, I couldn't ask for a better dog. I love mongrels, they are so quirky!

Even if not motivated by money, the fact that people are willing to take the pups off their hands can lead to complacency. For every "accidental" litter that people let their dogs have, I very much doubt that all their female dogs are spayed afterwards, it costs money and at the end of the day it is surgery for the dog, yet they'll let them go through the ordeal of having a litter of pups which has it's own associated health risks? For those people that do spay afterwards so they don't have to put their dogs through it again, that's brilliant, but it certainly isn't all of them.

Ms. Pingui

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Even if not motivated by money, the fact that people are willing to take the pups off their hands can lead to complacency. For every "accidental" litter that people let their dogs have, I very much doubt that all their female dogs are spayed afterwards, it costs money and at the end of the day it is surgery for the dog, yet they'll let them go through the ordeal of having a litter of pups which has it's own associated health risks? For those people that do spay afterwards so they don't have to put their dogs through it again, that's brilliant, but it certainly isn't all of them.

I totally agree with you. The person I got my dog from did spay the mother afterwards and to be fair to him he did everything he could health wise for the pups and ensured they went to good homes.
I would be very wary of taking a pup from a stranger with an "accidental litter" though because you really don't know what's went on behind the scenes.
Finding the right pup can be a bit of a minefield, I think the rescue route is great if you're looking for a family pet.

peasant

There are black sheep everywhere from dodgy breeders to dodgy rescues and everything inbetween.

At the end of the day you have to buy the seller as much as the pup.

Done deal is handy in that respect as sometimes the pictures already tell the story or the text gives it away that something isn't kosher here.

Also, you can quiz the seller thoroughly over the phone first (and hopefully they will do the same to you)

When you stand in front of a lot of cute wriggly pups (be that at the breeders premises or elsewhere) sense often goes out the window and you take one of them home regardless.

odckdo

Just wondering do certain breeds have better breeders in Ireland?

As the IKC is mostly adminstrative, would a club/society that breeders are a member of to show and judge set a higher code of conduct within the club for beeding and selling of pups?

Also the KC in the UK has a approved breeder scheme where health checks are mandatory and breeding facilities are checked. KC pups seem to be more expensive but I would pay the extra for that peace of mind.

For the OP, all I was trying to say earlier is that if you decide on a IKC pup to know your stuff beforehand regardless of who the breeder is. I have been very lucky with my dogs. If I did get another I would go again with the IKC route but would obviously research beforehand, pre-book and collect at 8 weeks. I wouldn't for example buy a 3 month pup from a IKC breeder on donedeal.

DBB

Lemlin wrote: »

He'd also give a very different opinion to the IKC/show circuit to a lot of posters on here. It is highly competitive and some breed clubs can be very cliquey.

Some of the posters on here do have great knowledge but I do feel they have too much trust of some of the institutions involved in the Irish dog market.

Lemlin wrote: »

You also need to realise your audience on this forum. It's like going into the Man Utd supporters club and asking if Liverpool would be a good team to go and watch! That's not to say it's not good advice but it is biased by certain posters who are members of these clubs themselves.

Lemlin,
Every time this subject comes up, you end up causing war.
Now, for the sake of the survival of this thread, I am going to point out to you why your posts cause so much trouble.
Can you not say what you want to say without making the reputable breeders here feel like you're attacking them, and judging them, and criticising them? Because that's how the above posts come across... they're pretty passive-aggressive comments.
I am not particularly interested in breeding, but if you said what you've said about my field of dogdom, I'd be seriously peed off with you.
And that's why your posts cause trouble. Your phrasing pees people off, and just comes across as a tad too holier-than-thou.
Please, for the sake of this thread, tone it down, and try to be a little more polite and less preachy.
The message of this thread is that no matter where a person goes to source a pup, they have got to put the research in. That is not an excuse to yet again call into question the genuineness of the people who are into showing and breeding here.

To all... can we please get back on-topic now, as if this turns into a one-upmanship competition yet again, I will close it.

Do not reply to this post on-thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Springwell

I sourced my working springer via done deal, not a back yard breeder at all - sire is Irish field trial champion and the bitch is a field trial winner. No dog in the five gen pedigree does not have a field trial award or champion title. Parents both health tested. Pup came vaccinated, wormed, legally docked with food and a blanket from his kennel. The breeder had a last minute drop out from the original buyers and posted the pup on done deal with a price on application/working home only listing as well as advertising in the UK (kennels are in NI).

Pup won his first working test and is wellon his way to attempting to emulate his dad as Irish champion. If you kow what you're looking for donedeal isn't all puppy mills.

hardCopy

boomerang wrote: »

Holy god, 120 euro? For a crossbreed? For that money you'd have a neutered, microchipped, vaccinated and wormed crossbreed from a rescue. :eek:

When she charged you that much, even if the litter was accidental, she was profiting from it.

I'm always hearing about people being refused dogs by rescues because both owners work. Where else are people to get a dog?

JJJJNR

andreac wrote: »

Gael you would be better off saving for your pup for longer and go to a reputable breeder. 600 is cheap for a pedigree pup.

You will end up paying In the long run if you just get a cheap pup that's not coming from health tested parents. Trust me. I've seen first hand the affects on a dog who was from a back yard breeder and trust me it's not nice. It's always the dog that suffers whether it's through illnesses or hip dysplasia etc.
If you can't afford a pup from a good breeder then either save for longer or rescue but do not just buy a pup cheap.

what a load of psychobabble, do you have any evidence to backup your claims ? Seriously get off the internet.

DBB

JJJJNR wrote: »

what a load of psychobabble, do you have any evidence to backup your claims ? Seriously get off the internet.

Do not speak to other users of this forum in this manner, it is completely unacceptable.
Debate your point, or don't post.
Do not reply to this post on-thread.
Thanks,
DBB

andreac

JJJJNR wrote: »

what a load of psychobabble, do you have any evidence to backup your claims ? Seriously get off the internet.

Yes I do actually. Unfortunately my partners dog was bought from a back yard breeder who he met in a car park etc. All before he met me or it wouldn't have happened.

The poor dog is now so deformed and riddled with hip dysplasia that she more than likely will have to get put to sleep before the year is out and she's not even 4 years old.

So I have a huge issue with back yard breeders that breed for money and don't health test when it's the poor dogs that suffer because of it.
Far from psychobabble.

Nelson Muntz

I don't understand how people still manage to buy badly bred pups that end up with health issues.

If you are interested in a certain breed, how hard is it to Google "common health issues with X" & then ask the breeder what checks were done on the parents & ask to see proof.

There is also plenty of info here & on the internet about check-lists & questions to ask when viewing a puppy.

I would think doing this simple research along with picking a breed that suits your family lifestyle would be a no brainer before you outlay your cash & sign up to a 10 - 15 year commitment.

andreac

Nelson you would think people would do that, but unfortunately most don't. People want puppies now and don't want to wait for the right one so end up buying them cheap and from dodgy breeders.

muddypaws

Lemlin wrote: »

Whether you want to show or not is relevant to the price IMO. As a show person, would you not agree? A pet dog should not cost as much as one that is suitable for showing. My friend has had Irish champions and he certainly thinks so.

Apart from your friend, have you got any evidence or point us in the direction of any reputable articles or links to back that up? I can't understand why one dog would be worth less than another. Let me talk about one of my friends - he has a fabulous Alaskan Malamute that he got from a breeder that expects him to show her. He has no interest in showing, and hasn't been in the ring with her yet, and I doubt he ever will, however he works her in harness and she has working titles. She is still a pet dog, lives in his house etc etc, but at weekends, they go off in the van to rallies and treks together. Why would she be worth less than a dog that trots around a show ring?

JJJJNR wrote: »

what a load of psychobabble, do you have any evidence to backup your claims ? Seriously get off the internet.

Lots and lots of evidence, google is your friend

Nelson Muntz

andreac wrote: »

Nelson you would think people would do that, but unfortunately most don't. People want puppies now and don't want to wait for the right one so end up buying them cheap and from dodgy breeders.

Yep & unfortunately those are the puppies most likely to end up in rescue or the pound or just left outside 24 / 7.

boomerang

hardCopy wrote: »

I'm always hearing about people being refused dogs by rescues because both owners work. Where else are people to get a dog?

Dogs' lives are too short to spend most of their time waiting for their owners to come home. I certainly wouldn't put a dog in this situation. It's not always about what we want.

Toulouse

hardCopy wrote: »

I'm always hearing about people being refused dogs by rescues because both owners work. Where else are people to get a dog?

The pound perhaps?

Or there are some reputable rescues that will adopt a dog to a home what works providing that they have made provisions for the dog so that he/she is not left alone for 9+ hours a day, 5 days a week.

It's not difficult. I certainly would never buy a dog from any of the sites that have been mentioned on this thread. If I were a breeder I would not be advertising my dogs on them purely because of their contribution to the overpopulation and irresponsible purchasing of dogs in Ireland and as someone with a background in rescue I have told them where to go when they e-mailed asking if I would like to advertise my rescue dogs for free.

kylith

hardCopy wrote: »

I'm always hearing about people being refused dogs by rescues because both owners work. Where else are people to get a dog?

I got mine from a breed rescue which was happy to give me two as they would be company for each other during the day.

I know what you mean though; that some have a blanket ban on rehoming where there won't be someone home all done can be very off-putting. How do they think you're going to earn the money to look after the dog if not by going to work?

Although, as far as I know, the pound has no such prohibition. But getting a dog from there means it won't have been temperament assessed, neutered, or vaccinated.