People who wear 'Great Britain' hoodies for fashion

Testament1

P_1 wrote: »

Good grief, it's a piece of coloured fabric arranged in a specific way, hardly the end of the world is it.

Nationalism is so 19th century

My sister bought me a hoody for Christmas years ago that was very nice bar the little Union flag on one sleeve which was promptly removed. I have absolutely zero issue with present day England but to me the Union flag is incredibly outdated and still represents the "Empire" and isn't something I'd be comfortable
with wearing given its very murky past.

Rubberchikken

ok, that explains it for me. i've seen the hoodies, though they were some club. turns out they're not:eek::eek:

Fudge You

Wide Load wrote: »

Anyone who gets upset about what someone else is wearing be it another countries flag on a piece of clothing or a hat, clearly has very little else to be worrying about. I've never been able to wrap my head around the whole patriotism thing anyway, flags are flags, places are places, it's all the same thing at the end of the day.

Yeah sure.
Try waving a palestinian flag to a local football match. Like what happened last season in Dundalk.
Flags are not just flags, they represent something to each individual.

If I wore an ISIS flag in a packed shopping centre this afternoon, what would happen to me?

Flags are not just any ole piece of material like regular clothing.




P.S. not saying the british flag is comparable to the ISIS flag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

towelly

I wouldn't wear a butcher's apron.

towelly

Wide Load wrote: »

Anyone who gets upset about what someone else is wearing be it another countries flag on a piece of clothing or a hat, clearly has very little else to be worrying about. I've never been able to wrap my head around the whole patriotism thing anyway, flags are flags, places are places, it's all the same thing at the end of the day.

The rest of the world disagrees with you.

P_1

towelly wrote: »

The rest of the world disagrees with you.

Which really is a crying shame

LDN_Irish

I went in to get a leg of lamb yesterday and the fecker was decked out in a butchers apron. Walked straight out.

Up the Ra!

Gran Hermano

towelly wrote: »

I wouldn't wear a butcher's apron.

Vegan?

bb1234567

Its 2015, not 1915.

towelly

bb1234567 wrote: »

Its 2015, not 1915.

And?

Harry Palmr

towelly wrote: »

I wouldn't wear a butcher's apron.

I see you are happy to have "butchers" bloody money in the pocket though

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94545253

looksee

This is a very sad thread. Are you all going to whinge about all the shamrocks and stuff that people all over the world will be wearing on Tuesday - they took our wimmin and our traditions! What the heck does it matter what other people wear on their clothing. Your own choice is your own business, but getting uptight about what other people wear?

bb1234567

towelly wrote: »

And?

Are we still as consumed with hatred of the british flag today as we were then?

I've a Union Jack cushion cover, it's beside my Irish Tricolor cushion and an Old Glory cushion on my sofa. I wouldn't mind an EU one.

I'm English of mostly Irish descent, am I supposed to hate myself, or what?

conorh91

bb1234567 wrote: »

Are we still as consumed with hatred of the british flag today as we were then?

Who here is "consumed with hatred"?

Seems a bit unfair to expect people to be robotically blind to Irish people wearing 'Great Britain' flags and logos.

As a semi-interesting shift in attitudes, it's at least worth mentioning.

Nobody's getting upset, although some are a bit defensive.

Notorious97

conorh91 wrote: »

Who here is "consumed with hatred"?

Seems a bit unfair to expect people to be robotically blind to Irish people wearing 'Great Britain' flags and logos.

As a semi-interesting shift in attitudes, it's at least worth mentioning.

Nobody's getting upset, although some are a bit defensive.

You are in the wrong forum, boards is notoriously anti Irish and ashamed of our past.

Personally I agree with the points you made, it is something that stands out and catches your eye, at the same time like you said nobody is up in arms over it, just a discussion.

Selfish Giant

Candie wrote: »

I'm English of mostly Irish descent, am I supposed to hate myself, or what?

Not at all. You've the best of both. You should be very proud of who you are.

looksee

Selfish Giant wrote: »

Not at all. You've the best of both. You should be very proud of who you are.

Why would anyone need to be 'proud' just because of where they happened to be born, what nationality their parents were, or where they grew up? Be proud of your achievements, of what you have done with your life, certainly. But the rest is just serendipity, not something to be proud about.

Selfish Giant

Selfish Giant wrote: »

Not at all. You've the best of both. You should be very proud of who you are.

I am proud of who I am, but my nationality and heritage hasn't much to with that.

As Looksee says above, where I was born, and to whom, is simply an accident of fate and nothing I can take credit for or pride in.

conorh91

looksee wrote: »

Why would anyone need to be 'proud' just because of where they happened to be born, what nationality their parents were, or where they grew up? Be proud of your achievements, of what you have done with your life, certainly. But the rest is just serendipity, not something to be proud about.

Not necessarily. Different communities have different values. Some communities' values are desirable and virtuous, some are not.

So obviously you can be 'proud of who you are' because of where you were born or where you live. Your community has ordained you with its values, which you can later decide are virtuous or not.
Furthermore, you as an active citizen in a community can enhance and influence the values of the community.
In this way, the citizen and the community can be proud of one another, and the citizen can be proud to be a member of his community.

For example, a libertarian might be proud of Florida, and proud to identify himself as a member of the Floridian community, because it has endowed him with certain values, and he has in turn influenced Floridian life in terms of how he conducts himself, and in his engagement with the state.

Same in Ireland. Except in Ireland, patriotism and pride of place is called nationalism, which is a subject for scorn, especially online.

looksee

conorh91 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Different communities have different values. Some communities' values are desirable and virtuous, some are not.

So obviously you can be 'proud of who you are' because of where you were born or where you live. Your community has ordained you with its values, which you can later decide are virtuous or not.
Furthermore, you as an active citizen in a community can enhance and influence the values of the community.
In this way, the citizen and the community can be proud of one another, and the citizen can be proud to be a member of his community.

For example, a libertarian might be proud of Florida, and proud to identify himself as a member of the Floridian community, because it has endowed him with certain values, and he has in turn influenced Floridian life in terms of how he conducts himself, and in his engagement with the state.

Same in Ireland. Except in Ireland, patriotism and pride of place is called nationalism, which is a subject for scorn, especially online.

It is true that a person may be proud of what a community has achieved,and be proud to be identified as a member of that community, in the same way he can be proud of his own achievements.

But you are moving the goalposts. I am arguing that to be 'proud' to be a nationality is nonsense. If you are born in France you can be proud to be French, if you are born in Ireland you can be proud to be Irish, it doesn't make any sense though, you are being proud about an accident of birth.

I have no idea what all the stuff about 'ordained you with its values' means?

Selfish Giant

I'm a proud Irishman, and I've spent a great deal of my life studying Irish history and debating Britain's legacy with people of varying opinions, but none of that precludes me from admiring who the British are, now, in 2015. That young guy wearing the British top… well maybe he doesn't give a toss about Irish history. Or maybe he does care, but like me he's chosen to look beyond it to find more positive things to fill his head with. It's possible to recognise our history and our heritage, and debate it to until we're blue in the face, but let's do all of that while moving forward. The English, or 'British', if you prefer, are just like everyone else; some of them are dead sound, some of them are absolute tramps, and everyone else is a hundred different types of normal. Like many other people on here I grew up around all sorts of sectarian language, and had my head filled with all sorts of nationalist ideas. But through reading and travelling I've found a correct headspace. Nowadays the word 'British' makes me think of Terence Davies, the BFI, Warp Records, Manchester United, DJ Harvey, Kristin Scott-Thomas and Fabric in London. I wouldn't even notice someone wearing a Great Britain hoody. In fact, I'd be quite embarrassed if I did.

Selfish Giant

looksee wrote: »

Why would anyone need to be 'proud' just because of where they happened to be born, what nationality their parents were, or where they grew up? Be proud of your achievements, of what you have done with your life, certainly. But the rest is just serendipity, not something to be proud about.

The past 10 years or so I've read a lot of Irish literature, and seen a lot of the country, and I guess that's where that 'pride' comes from. I love reading and listening to our poets and authors with an Irish ear, i.e. picking up on the slang and references that are lost on other people. I love all our different accents and I love meeting people from all over the country. Being 'Irish' isn't something I thought a great deal about up until my 20's, but the past decade it's really been a part of me. I know that sounds awfully self-centred but I don't know how else to describe it. It's just I didn't seem to engage with my nationality at all for a long period of my life, perhaps because so many of my family live overseas and a lot of my greatest memories were spent elsewhere. I guess I think we're an interesting bunch of people and I'm glad to be amongst the group. But you're quite right. It's all pot luck at the end of the day.

conorh91

looksee wrote: »

But you are moving the goalposts.

No, I'm describing where pride in identity comes from.

Anti-nationalism made sense in the era of GB Shaw, who was an anti-nationalist, because back then, citizens (or subjects rather) largely had no control over their community and its values.

But we live in a world where not only are populations incredibly mobile, they also determine their own local values. As citizens we control, and take ultimate responsibility, for how we organize society. Throughout human history, up until the enlightenment, identity was inflicted upon the citizen in order to control him. In th last 300 years, and now in particular, citizenship is something that we use to reflect our own values and identity.

If you are born in France you can be proud to be French, if you are born in Ireland you can be proud to be Irish, it doesn't make any sense though, you are being proud about an accident of birth.

Only if your engagement with the state stopped at birth.

I don't know about you, but I participate in a society where I pay taxes, elect local and national representatives, contribute to decisions on the constitution, observe the laws, join a political party, and so on. Every citizen who engages with the State contributes towards the direction it takes. The State is funded by our labour and reflects our outlook.

So of course our membership of it, that is to say our nationality, is something we can be proud of.