AIG car insurance - XLNTdriver app

Alrite Chief

BigEejit wrote: »

I would doubt that they believe that every bad scoring journey that gets marked as being a passenger is true.

Have you looked at the app? You click on any journey and claim you were a passenger and your overall score adjusts accordingly. Its not about believing you or not. Thats the data you submit to your own account. Its not a far fetched story to be a passenger in a car.

This initiative is in its infancy and they are offering the discounts to get people using it. Its to promote safer driving and gather data in general. Regardless of whether you're a passenger or driving they still get fed information about our use of the road. Times, speed, phone usage and smoothness of your journey. Its not designed to load a individual. What would be the point in adding a criteria that other insurers don't have.

swanie29

I have this app couple of days and find it marks you low if you brake on speed bumps or moving slowly in traffic. Everyone else find this problem.

Alrite Chief

swanie29 wrote: »

I have this app couple of days and find it marks you low if you brake on speed bumps or moving slowly in traffic. Everyone else find this problem.

Yeah there is a few things like that. Iv an overall score for mobile phone usage of 90 despite not using the phone at all. Should that not be 100?

ironclaw

Alrite Chief wrote: »

What would be the point in adding a criteria that other insurers don't have.

BigEejit is entirely right. Big Data is serious business. Take the US supermarket of Target for example, they have the famous example of being able to tell not only that someone is pregnant but what week they are in. Its incredible the data you can glean from seemingly trivial bits and pieces.

As an insurer, this data is gold dust. You can start to track cars, patterns and usage. If you own an iPhone, it knows where you work and live, and how long it will generally take you to get there and when you are likely to go there. Abstract this to an insurer, they might load people in the IT sector as they may find they travel to work later in the morning but generally stay later in the evenings. They might discount stay at home Mum's as they are only out in the morning and for the school run. The list is endless.

If you think the App is about driver safety or lowering your insurance level, you are sorely mistaken. Its actually the perfect risk profiler.

Alrite Chief

ironclaw wrote: »

BigEejit is entirely right. Big Data is serious business. Take the US supermarket of Target for example, they have the famous example of being able to tell not only that someone is pregnant but what week they are in. Its incredible the data you can glean from seemingly trivial bits and pieces.

As an insurer, this data is gold dust. You can start to track cars, patterns and usage. If you own an iPhone, it knows where you work and live, and how long it will generally take you to get there and when you are likely to go there. Abstract this to an insurer, they might load people in the IT sector as they may find they travel to work later in the morning but generally stay later in the evenings. They might discount stay at home Mum's as they are only out in the morning and for the school run. The list is endless.

If you think the App is about driver safety or lowering your insurance level, you are sorely mistaken. Its actually the perfect risk profiler.

Yes and this app is no different to any other app in which you enable location services in terms of where you live, where you go and what time you do all of this.

Its in the terms of your agreement with the insurer that the data gathered will not be used to increase your premium. As I said previously the data collected is non specific to the individual in terms of what the company are trying to learn about driving habits. Its not in the companies interest to scare off individual customers. Its a competitive market. Why would AIG want to load your premium? They want to keep business.

I never said it was "solely" to promote safer driving.

ironclaw

Its in the terms of your agreement with the insurer that the data gathered will not be used to increase your premium.

Yes,but it gives great insight into an insurance group e.g. Male Drivers, Aged 23 to 25 etc etc. So they can raise or indeed lower this bracket accordingly. So while its not specific to you, it may affect you.

As I said previously the data collected is non specific to the individual in terms of what the company are trying to learn about driving habits.

Again, they are learning about a group and entire sector. A larger sample space is much better for analytic properties. They couldn't care less about an individual, they want to know the group dynamics. So even if it isn't tied directly to you, it will affect you.

its not in the companies interest to scare off individual customers. Its a competitive market. Why would AIG want to load your premium? They want to keep business.

Insurance companies are somewhat in a monopoly. Legally you require insurance so if they raise your premium, you have the option of shopping around or staying with them. If they share this information, most likely as its extremely valuable to risk assessment, your bracket premium will most likely be affected.

Its not tin foil, its just business

Alrite Chief

Ok. We aren't disagreeing with each other. My point was signing up to help with this research, which it essentially is, won't mean your own personal insurance being loaded. The research will effect everyone in the long run possibly. So what do you do? Let everyone else avail of these discounts and continue to pay a premium of 30-40% more. Or take it. Me not taking out such a policy won't stop this happening.

mull13

i got the offer from aig about the app would anyone recommend it and what question do i need to ask before i sign up it sounds to good to be true as i was getting quotes from 1700 to 500 and aig offer of 412 euro i nearly took the girls hand but i havent signed up yet

Alrite Chief

Im using it. Its no big deal. What it is monitoring is stuff that is barely controllable. As in its not even scrutinising your driving. Its more or less just gathering data about peoples driving habits in general. For example the facility is there to claim you were the passenger in a journey. So the journey is disregarded from your score. However valuable data is still recorded for their overall benefit. They don't care. 30-40% off the exact same policy someone else take out without the app. No brainer for me in the end.

Alrite Chief

Anyone find the auto start function doesn't work half the time?

mull13

I have to turn it on every time I go driving . Do you only have to do 500km

Dr_Bill

So doing doughnuts in a basement carpark is the only way to go with these apps? :-D

flutered

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Who is stating this or is this just a projection? There is nothing to state in your agreement with them this data will effect future premiums with the company. It wouldn't be an even playing field. How would they expect to keep business if they load customers with an extra risk factor. You would just move on.

you could move on with a copy of your no claims bonus in your sweaty fist, the said bonus carrying all the details of the app

flutered

there was a thing going the rounds on the www recently, as regards a female employee of a ca company who had an app put on her fone by her employer, the said employer would tell her co workers in the speed she was going on the highway, where she had coffee etc, things came to a head when she had to keep the app on during weekends, she lost her job and now has a claim in for 500,000 or 1/2m, not serious dosh by ca standards

ironclaw

flutered wrote: »

there was a thing going the rounds on the www recently, as regards a female employee of a ca company who had an app put on her fone by her employer, the said employer would tell her co workers in the speed she was going on the highway, where she had coffee etc, things came to a head when she had to keep the app on during weekends, she lost her job and now has a claim in for 500,000 or 1/2m, not serious dosh by ca standards

Most company phones can have their entire data set read by the employer. Its standard practice to protect company secrets etc, so no news there. You sign your life away when you take a company phone in most companies. The days of privacy are well and truly over, so I don't see why people are getting so flustered about this. Facebook et al know more about you than you think

keithclancy

ironclaw wrote: »

Most company phones can have their entire data set read by the employer. Its standard practice to protect company secrets etc, so no news there. You sign your life away when you take a company phone in most companies. The days of privacy are well and truly over, so I don't see why people are getting so flustered about this. Facebook et al know more about you than you think

Interesting that, I work in Germany and my boss isn't even allowed to look at my itemised phone bill, all they are allowed to see is how much the bill is for.

ironclaw

keithclancy wrote: »

Interesting that, I work in Germany and my boss isn't even allowed to look at my itemised phone bill, all they are allowed to see is how much the bill is for.

Most systems that allow a company to deploy in-house Apps and configure the phones for company use (e.g. 'Bring your own device' schemes) allow for the system to read Apps installed, location and other data straight off the device.

All I say is just because its not legal, doesn't mean employers don't do it. The access is there and very easy to use in most cases. Going a step futher, there are areas of someone companies I've work for you cannot bring a smart phone as its the most perfect spy device ever made.

keithclancy

ironclaw wrote: »

Most systems that allow a company to deploy in-house Apps and configure the phones for company use (e.g. 'Bring your own device' schemes) allow for the system to read Apps installed, location and other data straight off the device.

All I say is just because its not legal, doesn't mean employers don't do it. The access is there and very easy to use in most cases. Going a step futher, there are areas of someone companies I've work for you cannot bring a smart phone as its the most perfect spy device ever made.

While that's technically possible, I can say it doesn't happen, in regulated industries in Germany anyway.

Alrite Chief

flutered wrote: »

you could move on with a copy of your no claims bonus in your sweaty fist, the said bonus carrying all the details of the app

Are you serious? You think your no claims bonus certificate would contain extra information? No is the answer. Its a legal document an insurance company is obliged to give you containing how many years claim free, dates of claims, the amount and if they are settled or not. Any addition information is irrelevant on such a document. Just to add to that its in the terms of the use of the app information gathered is not shared with any third parties.

To Elland Back

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Are you serious? You think your no claims bonus certificate would contain extra information? No is the answer. Its a legal document .

There is nothing 'legal' about a no claim bonus. It is just a marketing tool accepted as standard practice by insurers. They are obliged to provide you with a certificate by the Financial Regulator, but not insurer is obliged to accept it and nobody can make them. Current practice helps potential insurers identify your risk profile, that's all

Alrite Chief

To Elland Back wrote: »

There is nothing 'legal' about a no claim bonus. It is just a marketing tool accepted as standard practice by insurers. They are obliged to provide you with a certificate by the Financial Regulator, but not insurer is obliged to accept it and nobody can make them. Current practice helps potential insurers identify your risk profile, that's all

Ok fair enough but it's a document to give specific details. Not information gathered by an app.

TheTomahawk

I signed up over the weekend, saving over €200 on the best quote that AA could provide (and saving around €90 on the AIG quote without the app). Here are my findings over the last few days:

- I had to turn off auto start and auto stop as the app was recording walks I was taking with my dog (and scoring them accordingly). It was also recording spurious trips while doing things like sitting in the office, or sitting in the canteen eating my lunch (with crappy low scores).

- ALL!!! data is sent to AIG and Floow (the people who wrote the app). And since it's their servers that need to crunch the data, this means all of data! This is then kept on their servers, against your name. I'm not overly happy with that. (And it's another reason I turned off auto start). I don't like that they know what I'm doing at all time, effectively. So I'll manually give them my driving data for the purpose of my insurance, but they are not getting anything else.

- they encourage you to keep the app running after the 500km by offering further discounts. All so they can have more data on you. It's all a bit too Big Brother or 1984 for me, to be honest. So, after 500km, the app is going.

- My current score for phone usage is 84 - this is below the 85 score that give the 20% discount. I got this low score because... well, my phone was in my pocket for all trips done, so, I got this score for absolutely no reason what-so-ever.

- My current score for "Time Component" is 70. This is, presumably, because I have to go into work for 8am. One trip that I did after midnight had a pitiful score with no events on it, so I can only assume it was because it was after midnight. Does anybody know the best time to drive, according to the app? How does one improve a Time Component score when you don't really have a choice over what times you can drive? (this also means that the app is somewhat unfair)

- Smooth driving: "Typically someone who accelerates and decelerates a lot during a journey will get a worse score..." So, I should just break all red lights I see in order to keep my score up, I suppose, 'cos I drive through the city as I'm constantly stopping and starting.

- when pulling out from a small side road onto a main road, I was penalised for 'medium acceleration'. It appears they want to encourage people to pull out slowly onto a main road and take their time getting up to the speed of the flowing traffic...

- Pulling slowly away from a traffic light is a sure fire way to ensure that the traffic light changes back to red quicker (due to the induction loop not sensing enough movement). So do I think about the cars behind me and improve traffic flow, thus taking a penalty for medium or hard acceleration, or do I retain my score but stop another 10 cars getting through the light? (If someone else was trying to protect their own score and I was one of the 10, I wouldn't be happy - and I do try to think about the affect of my driving on other drivers, which many don't). Currently, I'm opting for improving my score. Sorry other drivers.

- While it has the positive benefit of making me more aware of my driving style, this is also a negative. Driving is somewhat a semi-conscious action, but with the app it becomes a conscious action. You question every move you make wondering how this will affect your score, almost to the point that you don't want to press the brake hard to avoid killing that cyclist that just swerved out in front of you (without looking!) in order to overtake another cyclist, as you know that the braking manoeuvre will affect your score (but killing the cyclist won't). As a result, knowing the app is running is a distraction and can negatively affect your driving.

The app needs to be used to 500km, so once I get to 500 (I'm at 46 now) this will be uninstalled. And I'll probably never use it again. I know I'm not a perfect driver, I'm aware of some of my faults, but I feel I'm become a worse driver while 'playing the game' of trying to attain a better score.

Special Circumstances

TheTomahawk wrote: »

- when pulling out from a small side road onto a main road, I was penalised for 'medium acceleration'. It appears they want to encourage people to pull out slowly onto a main road and take their time getting up to the speed of the flowing traffic...

Shpeed kills!

uck51js9zml2yt

TheTomahawk wrote: »

I signed up over the weekend, saving over €200 on the best quote that AA could provide (and saving around €90 on the AIG quote without the app). Here are my findings over the last few days:

- I had to turn off auto start and auto stop as the app was recording walks I was taking witih my dog (and scoring them accordingly). It was also recording spurious trips while doing things like sitting in the office, or sitting in the canteen eating my lunch (with crappy low scores).

- ALL!!! data is sent to AIG and Floow (the people who wrote the app). And since it's their servers that need to crunch the data, this means all of data! This is then kept on their servers, against your name. I'm not overly happy with that. (And it's another reason I turned off auto start). I don't like that they know what I'm doing at all time, effectively. So I'll manually give them my driving data for the purpose of my insurance, but they are not getting anything else.

- they encourage you to keep the app running after the 500km by offering further discounts. All so they can have more data on you. It's all a bit too Big Brother or 1984 for me, to be honest. So, after 500km, the app is going.

- My current score for phone usage is 84 - this is below the 85 score that give the 20% discount. I got this low score because... well, my phone was in my pocket for all trips done, so, I got this score for absolutely no reason what-so-ever.

- My current score for "Time Component" is 70. This is, presumably, because I have to go into work for 8am. One trip that I did after midnight had a pitiful score with no events on it, so I can only assume it was because it was after midnight. Does anybody know the best time to drive, according to the app? How does one improve a Time Component score when you don't really have a choice over what times you can drive? (this also means that the app is somewhat unfair)

- Smooth driving: "Typically someone who accelerates and decelerates a lot during a journey will get a worse score..." So, I should just break all red lights I see in order to keep my score up, I suppose, 'cos I drive through the city as I'm constantly stopping and starting.

- when pulling out from a small side road onto a main road, I was penalised for 'medium acceleration'. It appears they want to encourage people to pull out slowly onto a main road and take their time getting up to the speed of the flowing traffic...

- Pulling slowly away from a traffic light is a sure fire way to ensure that the traffic light changes back to red quicker (due to the induction loop not sensing enough movement). So do I think about the cars behind me and improve traffic flow, thus taking a penalty for medium or hard acceleration, or do I retain my score but stop another 10 cars getting through the light? (If someone else was trying to protect their own score and I was one of the 10, I wouldn't be happy - and I do try to think about the affect of my driving on other drivers, which many don't). Currently, I'm opting for improving my score. Sorry other drivers.

- While it has the positive benefit of making me more aware of my driving style, this is also a negative. Driving is somewhat a semi-conscious action, but with the app it becomes a conscious action. You question every move you make wondering how this will affect your score, almost to the point that you don't want to press the brake hard to avoid killing that cyclist that just swerved out in front of you (without looking!) in order to overtake another cyclist, as you know that the braking manoeuvre will affect your score (but killing the cyclist won't). As a result, knowing the app is running is a distraction and can negatively affect your driving.

The app needs to be used to 500km, so once I get to 500 (I'm at 46 now) this will be uninstalled. And I'll probably never use it again. I know I'm not a perfect driver, I'm aware of some of my faults, but I feel I'm become a worse driver while 'playing the game' of trying to attain a better score.

My best times are on the N11 in the afternoon going home from work.
I'm on the road at 7 am and turn it off due to low scores.

Be aware that it must be used every 21 days once you hit your 500 km mark.

TheTomahawk

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Shpeed kills!

Actually, speed differentials kill, but only when high enough.
Pulling out into traffic travelling at 60km/h and slowly increasing your own speed causes this differential. Pulling out and getting up to 60km/h quickly reduce this differential.

TheTomahawk

Alisha Sweet Harpoon wrote: »

Be aware that it must be used every 21 days once you hit your 500 km mark.

What happens if I forget my phone?
We don’t expect you to remember your phone for every journey you undertake. Missing the occasional journey will not greatly affect your overall score. We require you to complete a minimum of 500Kms in the first 90 days of your policy. This then allows us to reward you based upon your overall score. You should continue using the App all the time we provide you with car insurance.

No mention in the FAQ about this 21 day thing...

In the T&Cs:
You must record a trip at least once every 21 days to be eligible for on-going offers.

Since I don't care about any on-going offers (whatever, or "ifever" (sic), they may be), I'm quite happy to uninstall the app once I have completed the minimum requirement.

In reviewing the T&Cs, I now see that the 500km has to be over a minimum of 45 trips. The T&Cs effectively say that you must to 500km AND do 45 trips. My journey to work is 16km, so this will only amount to 30/31 trips. Other smaller trips (shopping, gym, etc) should hopefully bring me over the required 45.

(This also answers the question someone asked about driving 1000km in the first week - if this doesn't amount to 45 trips, then you still have more journeys to record).

TheTomahawk

Alisha Sweet Harpoon wrote: »

Be aware that it must be used every 21 days once you hit your 500 km mark.

What happens if I forget my phone?
We don’t expect you to remember your phone for every journey you undertake. Missing the occasional journey will not greatly affect your overall score. We require you to complete a minimum of 500Kms in the first 90 days of your policy. This then allows us to reward you based upon your overall score. You should continue using the App all the time we provide you with car insurance.

No mention in the FAQ about this 21 day thing...

In the T&Cs:
You must record a trip at least once every 21 days to be eligible for on-going offers.

Since I don't care about any on-going offers (whatever, or "ifever" (sic), they may be), I'm quite happy to uninstall the app once I have completed the minimum requirement.

In reviewing the T&Cs, I now see that the 500km has to be over a minimum of 45 trips. The T&Cs effectively say that you must to 500km AND do 45 trips. My journey to work is 16km, so this will only amount to 30/31 trips. Other smaller trips (shopping, gym, etc) should hopefully bring me over the required 45. (Interestingly, no mention in the FAQ of the 45 days thing either!)

(This also answers the question someone asked about driving 1000km in the first week - if this doesn't amount to 45 trips, then you still have more journeys to record).

Pov06

Absolute waste of time these apps...

I would rather pay 20% more and not have to deal with this nonsense.

I was thinking of getting insurance cover with Boxymo last year but I ended up paying €200 more for cover without any trackers.

TheTomahawk

Pov06 wrote: »

Absolute waste of time these apps...

I would rather pay 20% more and not have to deal with this nonsense.

I was thinking of getting insurance cover with Boxymo last year but I ended up paying €200 more for cover without any trackers.

I'm glad you can afford the extra €200...

Pov06

TheTomahawk wrote: »

I'm glad you can afford the extra €200...

Well if you can't afford an extra €200 for your car then you really shouldn't be on the road...

How much is the excess on your insurance? Around €200? What will you say to your insurance company in the event of a crash?

"I can't afford it" will not be a valid answer.