The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Billy86

You really do have to appreciate the Browns fans' ability to just keep taking it on the chin though. Over and over and over and over.

Hazys

Well at least the winless Browns have more Pro Bowl players than the NFC North leading Lions this year lol

HigginsJ

Hazys wrote: »

Well at least the winless Browns have more Pro Bowl players than the NFC North leading Lions this year lol

Ah good old Joe Thomas. It's one of those if a tree falls in the woods with no one around does it actually make a sound scenario. Let's just send him to the pro bowl to play it safe.

(That being said he is PFF's 6th rated tackle this year)

Billy86

HigginsJ wrote: »

Ah good old Joe Thomas. It's one of those if a tree falls in the woods with no one around does it actually make a sound scenario. Let's just send him to the pro bowl to play it safe.

(That being said he is PFF's 6th rated tackle this year)

Joe Thomas is an unbelievable player to be fair - same as Alex Mack but to a greater extent again. This is his 10th straight Pro Bowl, and he's been first team all pro the last 7 years running (the year before that run he was second team). He must to some extent be looking at Mack in Atlanta and regretting sticking around, though on the other hand he does have the second biggest contract of any lineman in the league after Tyrone Smith and the 25th biggest in the whole league.

And holy sh*t, granted he'll be cut this year less than half way through it and there's the whole guaranteed vs incentive pay stuff etc, but Jay Cutler has the biggest official contract in the entire NFL!? :eek:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/

AbusesToilets

Billy86 wrote: »

I just don't see it - I reckon they're probably the worst team I've ever seen (watching since 2002), considerably worse than the 2008 Lions.

On offense they've the second least points scored, 3rd least total yards, 8th least yards per play, 5th least passing yards, 3rd least passing yards per play, tied for least passing TDs, 8th least rushing yards, 8th highest turnover percentage (against them), 3rd least first downs, 2nd lowest percentage of drives resulting in a score, actually have the 7th least offensive penalties so they can't say they've been killed by flags... and all of those are despite having a tonne of 'junk time' to inflate their numbers a bit like happened with the Jaguars last year.

On defense they've allowed the 2nd most yards, the 2nd most points, allow the 3rd most yards per play (0.1ypp behind the top two), have the tied 3rd least turnovers (just one behind the tied first teams), have allowed the 2nd most first downs (just 3 behind the 49ers), are tied 2nd (0.1 behind first) for yards per passing play against, are only middle of the pack for bulk passing yards against because teams so often are just running out the clock on them in the second half... which is why they've allowed the second most total rushing yards, and the second most rushing yards per play (despite knowing teams will be running the clock out on them), and have the second lowest turnover percentage in the league. They're second last in opposition drives ending in an score, and like on offense they've the 4th least penalties meaning they can't claim to be getting killed by flags.

Their kicker has been the 7th least accurate in the league despite only attempting one FG from over 50 yards, and their punter is in the lower half for average yards per punt (trickier one to quantify, but it's fair to assume he's booming kicks from deep in his own half more than maybe anyone in the league).

There are almost no areas where they are not bottom 5, often bottom 2-3, or at best bottom 8. I think offensive rushing yards per attempt and bulk passing yards against might be the only ones, and they're entirely situational (teams stop passing when up by 20 in the second half, teams don't expect you to run often when up by 20 in the second half). Unless we're including punt/kick return averages where they are right in the middle of the table, though that's quite a reach. Their -13.4 point differential is the worst so far this decade, and they still have to go to Pittsburgh next week.

Oh yeah, and apparently RGIII is going to start over Cody Kessler on the weekend. They accidentally stumble into an actually pretty decent looking rookie QB, and bench him for a proven failure who will probably be out of the league in the next 2-3 years. Just another great example of the "what's the worst option" approach the Browns have taken for several years now that has culminated in what I'm saying has to be the worst team I've ever seen. "Some college teams could beat these guys!" is often a wild exaggeration thrown about, but with these guys... I'm really not so sure.

Anyway, went off on a bit of a rant . TLDR - the Browns are a new level of terrible that I wasn't sure was even possible in this day and age.

They do have Tyrelle Pryor, who hopefully shall be looking at post season play as a Pat next year.

Realt Dearg Sec

Cutler's contract was heavily front loaded, for next year is something like 14 million I think. He can be cut with just 2 million dead.

Billy86

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They do have Tyrelle Pryor, who hopefully shall be looking at post season play as a Pat next year.

Yeah, but that's about it. Funny this is, he and Kessler were doing very well together - Kessler a rookie and Pryor essentially a rookie of sorts (at his position), combined for 44 catches for 523 yards. Imperfect science of course, but that's 88 catches for 1,048 yards over a season - if anything you'd assume their numbers would go up rather than down.

In the three RGIII was given the start... 8 catches for 91 yards. But hey, they're apparently sticking with RGIII because this is Cleveland and whatever the worst option is, is the option they will take.

You have to also wonder if they will manage to hold onto Jamie Collins, or if they really did just give away the first pick of the third round basically for absolutely nothing, not even a single win?

adrian522

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

He can be cut with just 2 million dead.

And he will be.

Billy86

adrian522 wrote: »

And he will be.

He'd be a good pick up for the Jags I think - they could really use an experienced QB for all those young players, will need to replace Bortles, and I really just don't see the market for QB needy teams being hot on Cutler, whereas it might be for Romo for example.

tripperman

Billy86 wrote: »

Browns to win are 2/1, or 10/11 at +5.5 points.

Any reason you think they might? I mean the Chargers have had a really poor defense and done a great job at shooting themselves in the foot, but have also looked like a playoff team on a number of occasions, have a top 10 QB in Rivers, and actually have the 4th most points scored in the league. I just can't see the Browns keeping pace, myself.

I have few reasons for thinking it,
1, coaches, are continually out coached with poor play call choices, poor clock management, when you see rivers burning time outs because he can't trust the play the OC just called in for certain situations says alot, on defence Pagno going prevent defence when there is a lead on the line and seem to actually blow the lead more often then not,
2, injuries, injuries shouldn't be an excuse, but they have crippled us this season, on defence DB, verrett and flowers are out for the season, so that leaves Casey Hayward to cover the number one wr on his own and opposite him is two UDAF rotating in and out, sure they make one good play a game, but most times there floundering well behind the receiver, DL Mebane on ir, leaves Square as starter he's a well below average player, means oline can double team bosa more easily now and cover Ingram quite well to, WR has been a carousel of player's that have some potential but not going to worry most team's, and Melvin Gordon could well be out for this weekend and that really weakens the offence as the other RBs can't run the ball as efficiently as he can
3 really have to consider how all the relocation talk as affected the player's, since the failed vote performances have gone down hill, part of this maybe having given up on the HC who is going to be sacked after week 17,

the baby bull elephant

Hazys wrote: »

Well at least the winless Browns have more Pro Bowl players than the NFC North leading Lions this year lol

Yeah the Pro Bowl really reared its ugly head as popularity contest there. I don't think Dak is there if he's not on 'America's team'. There's not many Lions players who deserve the nod but the four who were named as alternates did. Martin is the only one I'm not pissed about and that's because of Hekker's excellent season.

Knex*

The thing I can't understand about Brees not getting in, swap himself and Bortels and suddenly its the Jags receivers leading the league in total yards, and not NO. He is absolutely still one of the elite QBs in the game.

Dak is carried along nicely by his supporting cast right now. Brees is dragging his to another level.

Billy86

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Yeah the Pro Bowl really reared its ugly head as popularity contest there. I don't think Dak is there if he's not on 'America's team'. There's not many Lions players who deserve the nod but the four who were named as alternates did. Martin is the only one I'm not pissed about and that's because of Hekker's excellent season.

That was posted on a different NFL forum the other day, best punter season ever?

46.2 NET Punting Average (NFL Record for a season - 44.2)
46 punts downed inside the 20 (tied the NFL record)
1 touchback
117 return yards allowed on 83 punts
3 75+ yard punts
8 games with a 60+ yard punt

Realt Dearg Sec

adrian522 wrote: »

And he will be.

Billy86 wrote: »

He'd be a good pick up for the Jags I think - they could really use an experienced QB for all those young players, will need to replace Bortles, and I really just don't see the market for QB needy teams being hot on Cutler, whereas it might be for Romo for example.

I can see someone ponying up for Cutler, and I think they'll try to shop him before they cut him. But I wouldn't completely rule out his being a Bear next year either. Yeah, realistically he's probably done, but keeping him might be on the cards. We will probably draft a QB but not necessarily in the 1st. Barkley is looking ok as a backup but probably not a starter (you would hope). Cutler would allow for a proper QB competition. A lot of money for a chap who might not even start, but if the Bears cut him we have something in the region of 75 million in cap space. In other words, we can probably afford to keep him for the year while a new QB learns the ropes, and bring him in if Cutler isn't getting the job done. We can even afford to keep him and Alshon if we want.

But the smart money is still on him being gone, hopefully in a trade, but whatever. Alshon probably also gone because he's talented, we don't keep talented players as a rule (Martellus, Forte, Marshall, Peppers...)

AbusesToilets

Is Cutler a legit talent? Hasn't he had a stupid turnover in OCs in his time at the Bears? If Coughlin takes the Jags, that would be an enticing prospect I'd wager.

Realt Dearg Sec

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Is Cutler a legit talent? Hasn't he had a stupid turnover in OCs in his time at the Bears? If Coughlin takes the Jags, that would be an enticing prospect I'd wager.

He has plenty of talent, most especially arm talent. He also is one of the most inconsistent decision-makers in the NFL. Bears fans have always been massively split on him and he's very polarising. But by any measure he would be a step up from Blake Bortles. I would put him overall at around mid-range in the league but the problem is you don't get an average QB, you get either a really good one, or a really bad one, depending on the week. And increasingly, you get an injured one.

Billy86

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I can see someone ponying up for Cutler, and I think they'll try to shop him before they cut him. But I wouldn't completely rule out his being a Bear next year either. Yeah, realistically he's probably done, but keeping him might be on the cards. We will probably draft a QB but not necessarily in the 1st. Barkley is looking ok as a backup but probably not a starter (you would hope). Cutler would allow for a proper QB competition. A lot of money for a chap who might not even start, but if the Bears cut him we have something in the region of 75 million in cap space. In other words, we can probably afford to keep him for the year while a new QB learns the ropes, and bring him in if Cutler isn't getting the job done. We can even afford to keep him and Alshon if we want.

But the smart money is still on him being gone, hopefully in a trade, but whatever. Alshon probably also gone because he's talented, we don't keep talented players as a rule (Martellus, Forte, Marshall, Peppers...)

What's the take on Matt Barkley? Not as 'the' guy of course, but as a possible guy to fight with a rookie or whatnot for the spot. The commentators in the GB game on Sunday were talking about there being a bit of a buzz about him, and his numbers the past four games while not amazing haven't been bad (though needs more accuracy & less picks).

I mean his last year in college hurt him really bad, there was buzz of him being the top QB taken after Luck if he had declared in 2012 (which is why some thought he waited a year - to try to be #1 overall) so the calibre is somewhat there, just interested if you reckon it was just standard NFL commentator/pundit hyperbole whenever a QB strings two passes together in a row, or it there might be something to it.

HigginsJ

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Is Cutler a legit talent? Hasn't he had a stupid turnover in OCs in his time at the Bears? If Coughlin takes the Jags, that would be an enticing prospect I'd wager.

I'd be surprised if the Jags moved on from Bortles that quickly to be honest, especially if TC takes over. TC at the Jags would really excite me if I was a fan. He will turn them into a play-off contender next year. As long as he doesn't bring Kevin Kilbride in as OC then I think Bortles is salvageable, that would not be a good combination.

Cutler is terrible, has been for years, clear talent level but not got the mental side of the game down and at times his attitude does not appear the best.

HigginsJ

Billy86 wrote: »

What's the take on Matt Barkley? Not as 'the' guy of course, but as a possible guy to fight with a rookie or whatnot for the spot. The commentators in the GB game on Sunday were talking about there being a bit of a buzz about him, and his numbers the past four games while not amazing haven't been bad (though needs more accuracy & less picks).

I mean his last year in college hurt him really bad, there was buzz of him being the top QB taken after Luck if he had declared in 2012 (which is why some thought he waited a year - to try to be #1 overall) so the calibre is somewhat there, just interested if you reckon it was just standard NFL commentator/pundit hyperbole whenever a QB strings two passes together in a row, or it there might be something to it.

If I remember the biggest knock was his arm strength was woeful and he had a very "entitled" attitude to him. I'd be very surprised if this was anything other than a brief spell of competence, I wouldn't be hitching my wagon to him.

Realt Dearg Sec

Billy86 wrote: »

What's the take on Matt Barkley? Not as 'the' guy of course, but as a possible guy to fight with a rookie or whatnot for the spot. The commentators in the GB game on Sunday were talking about there being a bit of a buzz about him, and his numbers the past four games while not amazing haven't been bad (though needs more accuracy & less picks).

I mean his last year in college hurt him really bad, there was buzz of him being the top QB taken after Luck if he had declared in 2012 (which is why some thought he waited a year - to try to be #1 overall) so the calibre is somewhat there, just interested if you reckon it was just standard NFL commentator/pundit hyperbole whenever a QB strings two passes together in a row, or it there might be something to it.

I think you have it pretty well summed up. Barkley has proven himself a competent backup. I read somewhere that his QBR in each game has been below the average QBR for QBs playing against that team on the season (except against the 9ers, possibly). Which is not starter material. What he has done is outperformed expectations. But he is our fourth string QB (Cutler, Hoyer, Shaw all injured), and those are some pretty weak strings to begin with, so the bar was low. But Bears fans are always believers in the mythical saviour who is warming the bench behind Cutler, so he has been anointed, same as Hoyer was, by some.

On the plus side he has shown great fight. In the Titans game I think he would have won except for a literal NFL record number of dropped passes by our back up WR corps. And obviously you saw his last quarter on Sunday. Course you also saw his 3rd quarter. He's improving with each game and I'm sure he's going to be kept as a backup but I just don't see what a lot of people are seeing in him at the moment, beyond an adequate backup. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong in the next two games, though, would love to be wrong.

Realt Dearg Sec

HigginsJ wrote: »

I'd be surprised if the Jags moved on from Bortles that quickly to be honest, especially if TC takes over. TC at the Jags would really excite me if I was a fan. He will turn them into a play-off contender next year. As long as he doesn't bring Kevin Kilbride in as OC then I think Bortles is salvageable, that would not be a good combination.

Cutler is terrible, has been for years, clear talent level but not got the mental side of the game down and at times his attitude does not appear the best.

I think his attitude is OK, a lot of that stuff is media, but you're certainly right about the mental stuff. Under Adam Gase last year he played really well, and he was excellent his first year in Chicago too. Which indicates that he isn't consistent or, at best, he needs conditions to be exactly right. There's always an excuse (o-line, OC, lack of receivers) for Cutler, I guess because as you say, his talent is plain as the nose on your face.

adrian522

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

He has plenty of talent, most especially arm talent. He also is one of the most inconsistent decision-makers in the NFL. Bears fans have always been massively split on him and he's very polarising. But by any measure he would be a step up from Blake Bortles. I would put him overall at around mid-range in the league but the problem is you don't get an average QB, you get either a really good one, or a really bad one, depending on the week. And increasingly, you get an injured one.

He also wouldn't play through a sprained MCL in the 2010 championship game, so you have to question his toughness. Also he looks pretty grumpy on the sideline so is not a team player.

He likes a ciggy too. I'd stay away to be honest.

HigginsJ

adrian522 wrote: »

I'd stay away to be honest.

There are so many reasons to stay well away from him (no winning record since 2012, hasn't played 16 games since 2009, tends to get coaches and OC's fired, will probably want well over $10 million per year) but there is such a dearth of QB's out there someone is going to take a chance.

The free agent market for QB's is never stocked with talent, he is a diamond in comparison to what is usually out there. 4 or 5 teams badly need a QB, someone will take the chance and just hope.

adrian522

He'd be very good on a team that is a good QB away from being a contender. He won't carry a bad team though.

Christy42

HigginsJ wrote: »

I'd be surprised if the Jags moved on from Bortles that quickly to be honest, especially if TC takes over. TC at the Jags would really excite me if I was a fan. He will turn them into a play-off contender next year. As long as he doesn't bring Kevin Kilbride in as OC then I think Bortles is salvageable, that would not be a good combination.

Cutler is terrible, has been for years, clear talent level but not got the mental side of the game down and at times his attitude does not appear the best.

Cutler is not terrible. There is a limited number of seriously good qbs available in the nfl and there are a fair few worse than him. Some competition for Bortles might be a good thing though I expect Cutler would win that handily.

It isn't like there are that many competent qbs running around the place on free agency.

Beefy78

Billy86 wrote: »

Oh yeah, and apparently RGIII is going to start over Cody Kessler on the weekend. They accidentally stumble into an actually pretty decent looking rookie QB, and bench him for a proven failure who will probably be out of the league in the next 2-3 years. Just another great example of the "what's the worst option" approach the Browns have taken for several years now that has culminated in what I'm saying has to be the worst team I've ever seen.

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah, but that's about it. Funny this is, he and Kessler were doing very well together - Kessler a rookie and Pryor essentially a rookie of sorts (at his position), combined for 44 catches for 523 yards. Imperfect science of course, but that's 88 catches for 1,048 yards over a season - if anything you'd assume their numbers would go up rather than down.

In the three RGIII was given the start... 8 catches for 91 yards. But hey, they're apparently sticking with RGIII because this is Cleveland and whatever the worst option is, is the option they will take.

I could be wrong but I thought the suggestion with Kessler was that they're hot on him and are just sitting on him until next year now because of the two concussions.

They know the seasons dead and think the long term health of their promising QB is more important than avoiding 0-16.

Billy86

Beefy78 wrote: »

I could be wrong but I thought the suggestion with Kessler was that they're hot on him and are just sitting on him until next year now because of the two concussions.

They know the seasons dead and think the long term health of their promising QB is more important than avoiding 0-16.

Oh ok, if that's it then it's fully justified, wasn't aware he'd had a second.

HigginsJ

HigginsJ wrote: »

There are so many reasons to stay well away from him (no winning record since 2012, hasn't played 16 games since 2009, tends to get coaches and OC's fired, will probably want well over $10 million per year) but there is such a dearth of QB's out there someone is going to take a chance.

The free agent market for QB's is never stocked with talent, he is a diamond in comparison to what is usually out there. 4 or 5 teams badly need a QB, someone will take the chance and just hope.

Christy42 wrote: »

Cutler is not terrible. There is a limited number of seriously good qbs available in the nfl and there are a fair few worse than him. Some competition for Bortles might be a good thing though I expect Cutler would win that handily.

It isn't like there are that many competent qbs running around the place on free agency.

See my above in relation to Cutler being on the market.

He is fairly terrible to be honest, arm & athleticism are well above average but there is alot more to being QB than that. He doesn't seem to care & like I say the mental side of his game is nowhere.

I agree that today he would probably beat out Bortles but skill set wise
I dont see a huge difference so I would rather work to see if I could correct Bortles than waste time & money on Cutler.

HigginsJ

Surprised it hasn't been discussed but the Giants have been fined $150k and had their 4th round pick dropped to after all other 4th round comp picks and Ben McAdoo has been fined $50k for illegal use of walkie-talkies during the week 14 win over the Dallas Cowboys.

Apparently you are not allowed a walkie-talkie as they cannot be cut off 15 seconds before the play. The Giants were apparently having trouble getting calls into Eli. McAdoo used the walkie - talkie for 5 plays during the game.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18321311/new-york-giants-fined-150k-mcadoo-50k-walkie-use

TOss Sweep

HigginsJ wrote: »

Surprised it hasn't been discussed but the Giants have been fined $150k and had their 4th round pick dropped to after all other 4th round comp picks and Ben McAdoo has been fined $50k for illegal use of walkie-talkies during the week 14 win over the Dallas Cowboys.

Apparently you are not allowed a walkie-talkie as they cannot be cut off 15 seconds before the play. The Giants were apparently having trouble getting calls into Eli. McAdoo used the walkie - talkie for 5 plays during the game.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18321311/new-york-giants-fined-150k-mcadoo-50k-walkie-use

Not the Pats so no one cares really. The media have done well to not blow it way out of proportion also. So nothing hyping up the regular fan.

But what it does show is that the NFL when it comes to penalties for breaking the rules are making it up as the go a long.

Pats get fined $1m and lose a first round draft pick in 2016 and 4th round in 2017and Brady get gets banned for 4 games over you know what.

I would love to know what their formula is for working out the punishment.