Your default lane for driving on M50 or other 3 lane road

MarkAnthony

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Judges aren't infallible.

District Court Judges are; just ask any one of them.

Chips Lovell

It's also worth pointing out that the letter of the law doesn't give you an excuse to drive like a dick and the cops have other options open to them such as prosecuting someone for dangerous driving.

awec

MarkAnthony wrote: »

What is your basis for that interpretation? I assume it's a literal one?

I Judge is going to take a purposive approach; the purpose being to aid safety for people driving at high speed. To be fair a DC judge is just gonna do what he feels like but euros to beans in a CC appeal a purposive approach will be taken.

I imagine any judge would come down even harder if you were to enter a court room and try and act like a know it all by standing preaching about your own excessively literal interpretation of the law as if you are some sort of genius who has worked out a loophole in said law and feel you are more intelligent than those who wrote it and the many drivers of the country who have no problem abiding by it.

"Well now judge, I am not sure if you are aware but I was reading the legislation last night and I do believe that the interpretation of the majority of drivers is totally incorrect and indeed if the person in the middle lane were driving at 99 km/h that I as the incredibly-informed driver that I am would be well within my rights to overtake them on the left at 100km/h".

Chips Lovell

awec wrote: »

So how exactly does the legislation clearly define 80km/h as slow moving as you claimed only a few posts ago?

Not sure if you're serious or not at this stage.

On the off chance that you are.... What do you regard as slow moving? 20kph? 30kph? Can you quote the legislation that defines 20kph as slow moving?

Meathlass

I was driving to Dublin on Saturday afternoon around City West and N7 area. Left lane the whole way, had cruise control on at the speed limit (100kph), traffic was quiet and passed umpteen cars who were in the middle lane on an otherwise empty ish road.

Legally should I have slowed down to their speed, crossed 2 lanes of traffic to overtake them and then crossed 2 lanes of traffic again to get back in the left lane? Genuine question?

MarkAnthony

awec wrote: »

So how exactly does the legislation clearly define 80km/h as slow moving as you claimed only a few posts ago?

It doesn't it would be down to the judge to interpret it given the facts of the case. Unless Nigel Mansell has recently been elevated to the Irish bench none of the are going to define 80Kph as slow moving even on a motor way.

Shocking that people think it's okay to undertake and actually seem to be seriously trying to back up their positions! Regardless of the legal position it's extremely dangerous.

Larbre34

Meathlass wrote: »

I was driving to Dublin on Saturday afternoon around City West and N7 area. Left lane the whole way, had cruise control on at the speed limit (100kph), traffic was quiet and passed umpteen cars who were in the middle lane on an otherwise empty ish road.

Legally should I have slowed down to their speed, crossed 2 lanes of traffic to overtake them and then crossed 2 lanes of traffic again to get back in the left lane? Genuine question?

No, if traffic is progressing generally and it so happens your lane moves faster than adjoining lanes it is not an offence. 'Active' undertaking is the offence. In fact your middle lane jockeys are the ones in the wrong there if the left lane was available to them.

MarkAnthony

Meathlass wrote: »

I was driving to Dublin on Saturday afternoon around City West and N7 area. Left lane the whole way, had cruise control on at the speed limit (100kph), traffic was quiet and passed umpteen cars who were in the middle lane on an otherwise empty ish road.

Legally should I have slowed down to their speed, crossed 2 lanes of traffic to overtake them and then crossed 2 lanes of traffic again to get back in the left lane? Genuine question?

Yes legally you should have. Practically speaking with very light traffic I doubt you'd get pulled for it.

The problem is if someone is sitting in the middle lane they're obviously not a particularly good driver and probably not aware of their surroundings. They are likely to cross into your lane without looking properly, causing a major accident. Then all the barrack room lawyering in the world doesn't get you out of the wheelchair or coffin.

Everyone else of the road is a moron. Adage to live by IMO.

Meathlass

Larbre34 wrote: »

No, if traffic is progressing generally and it so happens your lane moves faster than adjoining lanes it is not an offence. 'Active' undertaking is the offence. In fact your middle lane jockeys are the ones in the wrong there if the left lane was available to them.

Thanks, I don't actively undertake but I find the left lane always moves faster except in peak rush hour when you've a lot of traffic merging/exiting.

MarkAnthony

Meathlass wrote: »

Thanks, I don't actively undertake but I find the left lane always moves faster except in peak rush hour when you've a lot of traffic merging/exiting.

If you're moving faster than the left lane why not move out to the right and pull back in when the road is clear.

The left lane constantly moving faster than the centre lane causes all sorts of issues for traffic flow.

Meathlass

Larbre34 wrote: »

No, if traffic is progressing generally and it so happens your lane moves faster than adjoining lanes it is not an offence. 'Active' undertaking is the offence.

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Yes legally you should have. Practically speaking with very light traffic I doubt you'd get pulled for it.

Thanks guys!

In all honestly nearly everyone I know drives in the middle lane. Excuses range from 'I'm not sure what exit to take' and 'I don't want to get stuck behind a slow driver' to 'I don't want to have to keep moving lanes all the time'. Drives me crazy.

Larbre34

The Poll doesn't cover the realities.

The Leftmost lane, cos thats where YOU ARE MEANT TO BE!

Yes, unless merging and diverging traffic is so busy that the amount of overtaking required to avoid it would be distracting and hazardous.


The middle lane, I dont like overtaking and the left lane is for slow drivers

I do use the middle lane mostly, because the left and auxiliary lanes are very slow moving with merging traffic. I then overtake using the outside lane and resume to the middle. Im not holding anyone up and I move at the maximum speed up to the limit. Im fine with overtaking.

The right lane, cos why would I be anywhere else!

Yes, if its very busy and that lane is moving fastest and Im not holding any other traffic up. If a fast vehicle comes up behind me (none of my business what speed they do) I will move into the middle lane and let them pass.

Any lane, I will undertake and overtake to keep making progress.

Yes I will use any lane as conditions dictate, but I wont undertake in my use of them.

By the way this is specific to the M50. At quiet times or on country motorways I will be in the left lane doing the speed limit.

MarkAnthony

Larbre34 wrote: »

The Poll doesn't cover the realities.

Neither does it have the Atari Jaguar option.

Meathlass

MarkAnthony wrote: »

If you're moving faster than the left lane why not move out to the right and pull back in when the road is clear.

The left lane constantly moving faster than the centre lane causes all sorts of issues for traffic flow.

Well on saturday I could see about 10 other cars in front of me and they were all in the middle lane (just after you come off the M7 there's a good view of the road up ahead), none in the left and none in the right. I joined the road at the speed limit in the left lane and stayed there.

I didn't want to overtake in the right lane as I wanted to stick to the speed limit and didn't want to block the right lane up as I passed 10 cars while other drivers coming behind me were doing 120kph.

Personally if it was me I'd have arrested all those middle lane hoggers.

MarkAnthony

Meathlass wrote: »

Well on saturday I could see about 10 other cars in front of me and they were all in the middle lane (just after you come off the M7 there's a good view of the road up ahead), none in the left and none in the right. I joined the road at the speed limit in the left lane and stayed there.

I didn't want to overtake in the right lane as I wanted to stick to the speed limit and didn't want to block the right lane up as I passed 10 cars while other drivers coming behind we were doing 120kph.

Personally if it was me I'd have arrested all those middle lane hoggers.

It annoys me as well, the wife is very fond of doing it. Then I've no room to talk really I'd have been on of the people in the right hand lane attempting to fly. TBH we both are dealing with the fools in the middle lane in our own ways.

I'm not suggesting (as is common in the Motors forum :pac:) that I'm forced into speeding, I just like going quickly!

Chips Lovell

There's no distinction in law between "active" and "passive" overtaking. There's just overtaking.

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

It's also worth pointing out that the letter of the law doesn't give you an excuse to drive like a dick and the cops have other options open to them such as prosecuting someone for dangerous driving.

It's also worth pointing out that aside from catch-all legislation like dangerous driving, dangerous overtaking is also a specific offence.

slimjimmc

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

The law defines slow moving traffic as "when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver’s right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle".

If someone's doing 80 in the centre lane and you pass them doing 100 in the left lane, you haven't broken the law.

No it doesn't. It just specifies two conditions a) traffic must be slow and b) the right lane is going more slowly.
There doesn't seem to be any clear definition of that constitutes slow moving traffic but if the definition of a "slow vehicle" is anything to go by it's pretty slow.

" slow vehicle " means—
(a) a vehicle which is not mechanically propelled,
(b) a mechanically propelled vehicle to which an ordinary speed limit of not more than twenty miles per hour applies, and
(c) a mechanically propelled vehicle so constructed or adapted as to be incapable of exceeding 24 miles per hour on a level road ;

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html

Shrap

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I love the way that 63% of people say they use the left lane when the reality is that the true figure is more like 10-20%.

Well this morning at about 11 I went Northbound from the DunLaoghaire exit to the N7 exit, and it has to be at about 33% using each lanes as they were all full. I sat in the middle lane at between 90k and 100k in a semi-permanent over-taking mode going past all the trucks on the left. One ar5e came up fast on the right behind me (doing at least 130) in a red lexus, got momentarily held up by a white van overtaking another white van, ducked into the centre lane, then left, undertook and promptly got stuck again behind the same white van which had finished overtaking at that stage. Then the centre land slowed right down so I overtook the vans and lexus with great pleasure.

Can someone answer me why people aren't supposed to drive in the centre lane? If it's only for overtaking, then why is there another lane for overtaking? Is it so the overtakers can be overtaken, and we're all supposed to be weaving in and out of the left lane? Makes no sense at all.

Chips Lovell

This is why driving on a motorway should be part of EDT and the driving test. People have no clue on how to use a three-lane carriageway.

MarkAnthony

Shrap wrote: »

Can someone answer me why people aren't supposed to drive in the centre lane? If it's only for overtaking, then why is there another lane for overtaking? Is it so the overtakers can be overtaken, and we're all supposed to be weaving in and out of the left lane? Makes no sense at all.

If you're making progress on cars in the left lane, by all means stay in the middle. No one has an issue with that. It's people who use the middle lane as their default lane regardless of what speed the traffic is moving on the left.

vienne86

I live beside the M50 and drive along it most days. The left lane often has very slow drivers. When in that lane you oftedn need to move over to let others filter on. So while it is correct to use the left lane, it can be a right pain in the neck trying to stay there.

Duck's hoop

vienne86 wrote: »

I live beside the M50 and drive along it most days. The left lane often has very slow drivers. When in that lane you oftedn need to move over to let others filter on. So while it is correct to use the left lane, it can be a right pain in the neck trying to stay there.

By the same token there is often no one in the left lane for considerable distances. Maybe 2-3 kilometres. I'm on it all the time, I used to abhor undertaking but to my shame I've been ground down to that level. But it's just quicker. Every tool is in the middle or right lane.

But it's just one example of the generally very poor driving in this country. And yes, I'm aware I'm also guilty by undertaking. But at least I'm aware.

I'd reckon you could remove all mirrors and indicator stalks from cars and 30% of drivers wouldn't even miss them.

darkpagandeath

Keep left Unless you are overtaking. 3 lane is slow lane for truck fast lane middle and then outside overtaking lane. Problem is here that amnesty they had on provisional licences they gave everyone a licence did they not if they had a provisional over a period of time.

dxhound2005

neil_ wrote: »

The last time I drove on the M50, traffic in the leftmost lane was barely moving, traffic in the middle lane was moving at 60-100km/h, and the right lane was moving along more or less at the speed limit. So I sat in the right lane for half an hour; it would have been incorrect for me to be in any other lane. I moved left when the traffic had cleared up to the point that I could drive at the speed limit in the left-er lane.

I've never experienced this supposed phenomenon of the right lane being jammed with near-stationary traffic while the middle and left lanes are empty. It seems to me that if Dublin was really so full of cut-throat drivers willing to risk life and limb for a 2 second gain then.... Those drivers would just go into the middle and left lanes in that situation.

That was an almighty traffic jam (barely moving) in the left lane, 30 to 50 km long?