Your default lane for driving on M50 or other 3 lane road

Mint Sauce

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I don't think the m50 was built when I did my driving test. I certainly was never taught how to drive on it. So normally I undertake merrily on the left lane. Is that very bad?!

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not sure if serious..

But if so then yes it is.. the rule is to overtake on the right, so while drivers SHOULD be looking around them before changing lanes a lot of them don't and won't expect you to be on their left which can lead to "problems"

If you're in the blind spot of a bus or truck then this becomes even more serious.

Move right if overtaking

If you are switching from the middlelane to the left lane, and visa versa, then this is highly dangerous, illegal, and called undertaking.

If you are sticking to the left lane, you are simply going by slower moving traffic, however you still run that risk of being caught in a blind spot, and if seen by a member of AGS, they could still say you were undertaking, even though you have not switchee lane, and even if the slower driver in the right lane is impeding traffic flow.

murpho999

Falcon L wrote: »

On every other motorway in the country, I keep to the leftmost available lane. As I approach Dublin, the really bad lane discipline starts. The M50 in particular is a jungle with 'survival' driving being necessary. I like to be at the speed limit so I usually end up in the right hand lane much closer to the car in front than I want to be.

If I travel in the left hand lane I get trapped there behind the slower drivers, who are quite entitled to travel at a slower speed if they want. No way would you be let into the middle lane.

If I travel in the middle lane I get trapped there when I inevitably end up behind behind a middle lane hogger doing 70kph. No way would you be let into the outer lane.

So I end up in the right hand lane where I drive too close to the car in front as leaving any gap more than a car length results in an Audi or BMW arse filling it. I'm happy to let another car in to the line in front of me. All it takes is a right indicator and I will ease off, creating a safe gap. But this rarely happens.

The M50 is a bit of an exception though. It is almost constantly full and all lanes need to be used. Something needs to be done about driver behaviour. Tailgating, undertaking and weaving need to be tackled. Won't happen, of course, but needs to happen.

This is just wrong as well as they should be travelling at the same speed as the rest of the traffic.

In some countries there are minimum speeds on motorways and that should apply here to.

conorh91

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Because of the free-for-all between the junctions I mentioned above, coupled with lack of enforcement by AGS beyond "speeding" and tax checks, you're damn right that I'll stay well away from the ducking and diving that goes on.

I think it's amazing that someone can fail to see the connection between undertaking and slow drivers hogging the right-most lane.

Why do you think we're undertaking in the first place?

Because people are doing it wrong with the overtaking lane, and they think it's ok because they're going the whole length of the m50 or some such excuse.

_Kaiser_

Mint Sauce wrote: »

If you are switching from the middlelane to the left lane, and visa versa, then this is highly dangerous, illegal, and called undertaking.

If you are sticking to the left lane, you are simply going by slower moving traffic, however you still run that risk of being caught in a blind spot, and if seen by a member of AGS, they could still say you were undertaking, even though you have not switchee lane, and even if the slower driver in the right lane is impeding traffic flow.

This defence won't hold up - "slower moving traffic" is intended as meaning crawling traffic, not cars doing 70-100 km/h. Overtake on the right. The only other time it's permitted to pass on the left is if cars are stopped to turn right.

The Backwards Man

I have little or no reason to be on the M50 these days, unless I'd be going to Lucan or Clondalkin or somewhere like that, perish the thought!

There are a lot of times you can get where you are going quicker by city driving anyway, the M50 is like one of them travelators in an airport with a load of Spanish grannies on it. Much easier to pound the corridors.

_Kaiser_

conorh91 wrote: »

I think it's amazing that someone can fail to see the connection between undertaking and slow drivers hogging the right-most lane.

Why do you think we're undertaking in the first place?

Because people are doing it wrong with the overtaking lane, and they think it's ok because they're going the whole length of the m50 or some such excuse.

That'd be fine if cars in the right lane were doing maybe 10-20 km/h below the limit but in my experience, the right lane IS usually the only one where traffic moves at the posted limit (when safe to do so).

Speaking for myself I certainly don't dawdle at all and like to get where I'm going as quickly as possible so if it's safe to do 100-ish I'll DO 100-ish. If some bell-end in a BMW (cause it's almost always a BMW) wants to try and force his way past when there's a line of cars ahead and cars on my left then he won't be intimidating me... I'll move left when I deem it safe/appropriate to do so, not because of some asshat with an inferiority complex.

Hermy

Falcon L wrote: »

...I usually end up in the right hand lane much closer to the car in front than I want to be.

So I end up in the right hand lane where I drive too close to the car in front...

Something needs to be done about driver behaviour...

Indeed!

Turtyturd

The furthest right, hovering just on the speed limit to ensure other drivers don't accidentally break it.

It's rewarding when they flash their lights and beep in appreciation.

Pinch Flat

Left lane usually, but with the amount of undertaking, people skipping queued traffic at exits, leap frogging, unpredictable lane changing (no indication), it's hard to know where to drive a lot of the time. Sometimes you have to rely on instinct and try and watch out for the tools that surround you on this stretch of road.

The lane discipline is appalling on the M50 - dual lane motorways here were always going to be a stretch for the average Irish driver, but three lanes blows a lot of peoples' minds.

I was driving home northbound a few weekend ago - in the left lane, indicating and exiting at the N3 and travelling at 100kph - I'd already passed the 3 stripe indication marker for the exit.

This kn0b in taxi decides that's not fast enough, overtakes me and about 2 or 3 other cars then darts in left in front of us. I was behind him at the lights existing the Blanchardstown roundabout. From what I could see, he didn't have an apparent medical emergency or his car didn't appear to be on fire - he just did the maneuver for the sake of it. That's the thing about the M50 - people will pull a stupid stunt like that , endangering those around them, to get 2 or perhaps 3 cars ahead.

Falcon L

murpho999 wrote: »

This is just wrong as well as they should be travelling at the same speed as the rest of the traffic.

In some countries there are minimum speeds on motorways and that should apply here to.

There are no such minimum speed laws here. It's not wrong to go below the speed limit. Some vehicles have no choice, some drivers choose to relax a bit and cruise. It's not wrong just because you say it is.

Just stay the hell out of the way of other drivers, who want to go at or above the limit.

_Kaiser_

Hermy wrote: »

Indeed!

He's right to be fair... trying to leave a sufficient gap to a car ahead just invites guys on your left to force their way into that spot. Anything more than a car length or so is asking for trouble.

Hermy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

He's right to be fair... trying to leave a sufficient gap to a car ahead just invites guys on your left to force their way into that spot. Anything more than a car length or so is asking for trouble.

And we wonder why there are so many accidents?

conorh91

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

he won't be intimidating me... I'll move left when I deem it safe/appropriate to do so,

So said every lane hog ever.

It isn't about you. Nobody is trying to "intimidate" you; they're trying to arrive faster, and it isn't your job to police them. Just stay in the correct lane.

_Kaiser_

Hermy wrote: »

And we wonder why there are so many accidents?

.. because guy in middle lane sees the gap and decides to just cut in right regardless, causing the car behind him (that left that gap) to jam on.

Then you have the ones who cut across 3 lanes of traffic at the last minute to get to their exit, or will slow down dramatically while they wait for someone to let them across

Hermy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

.. because guy in middle lane sees the gap and decides to just cut in right regardless, causing the car behind him (that left that gap) to jam on...

Which is why you leave a sufficient gap - so you don't have to jam on.

Falcon L

Hermy wrote: »

Indeed!

That's it? Your entire contribution to the debate?

I was being honest and telling of my experience on the M50.

What way do you drive on it? Middle lane at 70kmh? Or like most other posters here are you the model driver that you never see on the M50.

_Kaiser_

conorh91 wrote: »

So said every lane hog ever.

It isn't about you. Nobody is trying to "intimidate" you; they're trying to arrive faster, and it isn't your job to police them. Just stay in the correct lane.

If some bell-end is close enough that they look like they're in your back seat when you look in the mirror, then that's too close.

And no, I will not move into a line of slower traffic just to accommodate/facilitate them when there's a line of traffic ahead of me already.

However I think you're confusing what I said with the notion that I would sit in the lane with nothing ahead.. in that cases I'd already be left

_Kaiser_

Hermy wrote: »

Which is why you leave a sufficient gap - so you don't have to jam on.

You clearly don't drive on the M50 much

Leave gap.. car dives in at usually a slower speed than the lane they're joining.. gap dramatically reduces = slow down rapidly or run into the back of said muppet.

You decide

SweetChaos

I stay in the middle lane because the left lane has traffic coming on and off the ramps

Hermy

Falcon L wrote: »

That's it? Your entire contribution to the debate?

I was being honest and telling of my experience on the M50.

What way do you drive on it? Middle lane at 70kmh? Or like most other posters here are you the model driver that you never see on the M50.

Should I commend you for being honest about your bad driving?
And as you asked the question, what's to be done about it?

And fo what it's worth I drive in the appropriate lane at the appropriate speed for the conditions.

_Kaiser_

Hermy wrote: »

Should I commend you for being honest about your bad driving?
And as you asked the question, what's to be done about it?

And fo what it's worth I drive in the appropriate lane at the appropriate speed for the conditions.

Who's the bad driver.. the guy trying to leave a gap, or the idiot who forces his way into that gap regardless of whether it's safe to do so?

Hermy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You clearly don't drive on the M50 much

Leave gap.. car dives in at usually a slower speed than the lane they're joining.. gap dramatically reduces = slow down rapidly or run into the back of said muppet.

You decide

I've driven on the M50 often enough to be able to predict that sort of behaviour and I rarely need to slow down rapidly. Having to do that usually means you were probably going to fast in the first place or were driving too close to the vehicle in front of you.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Who's the bad driver.. the guy trying to leave a gap, or the idiot who forces his way into that gap regardless of whether it's safe to do so?

Obviously the driver who changes lane without due care and attention for other road users but a moment ago we were talking about Falcon who doesn't leave any gap which is dangerous, especially on a road like the M50 with high speeds and high volumes of traffic.

_Kaiser_

Hermy wrote: »

I've driven on the M50 often enough to be able to predict that sort of behaviour and I rarely need to slow down rapidly. Having to do that usually means you were probably going to fast in the first place or were driving too close to the vehicle in front of you.

I can predict it too.. it usually starts with them drifting to the right while they "think about it". Then (maybe!) an indicator will flash once or twice as they decide to go for it... but they're still wrong as changing lane isn't just about "is there enough room for my car" but also "how fast is the car behind me in that lane coming"

Obviously the driver who changes lane without due care and attention for other road users but a moment ago we were talking about Falcon who doesn't leave any gap which is dangerous, especially on a road like the M50 with high speeds and high volumes of traffic.

I don't think you read what he said correctly - he DOES leave a gap, but not so much as to invite muppetry from the left lane as described.

murpho999

Falcon L wrote: »

There are no such minimum speed laws here. It's not wrong to go below the speed limit. Some vehicles have no choice, some drivers choose to relax a bit and cruise. It's not wrong just because you say it is.

Just stay the hell out of the way of other drivers, who want to go at or above the limit.

I never said that everyone should drive at the speed limit but there should be a minimum of 80km.

You can't just drive down the motorway at 50km. it is dangerous and causes more accidents as people react to it and change lanes etc.

Hermy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I can predict it too.. it usually starts with them drifting to the right while they "think about it". Then (maybe!) an indicator will flash once or twice as they decide to go for it... but they're still wrong as changing lane isn't just about "is there enough room for my car" but also "how fast is the car behind me in that lane coming"

If you can predict it than you should be able to deal with it safely.

I don't think you read what he said correctly - he DOES leave a gap, but not so much as to invite muppetry from the left lane as described.

He said "...I drive too close to the car in front..."

That's dangerous driving - or muppetry as you call it - from someone who is complaining about other peoples dangerous driving.

_Kaiser_

murpho999 wrote: »

I never said that everyone should drive at the speed limit but there should be a minimum of 80km.

You can't just drive down the motorway at 50km. it is dangerous and causes more accidents as people react to it and change lanes etc.

Agree.. a minimum speed limit (conditions - both in terms of traffic volume and weather/visibility - permitting) would help as would enforcement of the "no learners" rule.

Variable speed limits (which they're talking about introducing) to reduce speed limits during busy periods would help as well.. it remains to be seen if this will be done intelligently as circumstances demand, or a generic blanket "60 km/h between 4-7pm regardless of the day or how busy it is or isn't" will be used - knowing Ireland, I wouldn't bet against the latter.

_Kaiser_

Hermy wrote: »

If you can predict it than you should be able to deal with it safely.

Yep.. and as such it rarely happens to me

He said "...I drive too close to the car in front..."

That's dangerous driving - or muppetry as you call it - from someone who is complaining about other peoples dangerous driving.

So what's the choice? Drive in a defensive manner as he describes or keep backing off every time to accommodate the idiots.. which incidentally will probably cause the guy behind him to get frustrated and do something stupid like undertaking, tailgating etc

Bottom line is keep left unless overtaking and ONLY overtake if it's safe to do so - not just because you see a gap you can just about fit your car into!

Shrap

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Agree.. a minimum speed limit (conditions - both in terms of traffic volume and weather/visibility - permitting) would help as would enforcement of the "no learners" rule.

I'd agree but I still don't see how that would help with traffic entering/exiting the M50 into the left land, as this naturally slows the left lane down to under 60k at times. Shouldn't, but does and it would become even worse if most folks stayed left as they're supposed to.

I don't see how anyone can stick to the left for that reason, unless you want to crawl along the whole road at 50k. I'm living out west and drive the M50 rarely, but grew up in Dublin so understand about predicting lane jumpers and tail-gating. I always stick to centre and use right to overtake (and I know that's wrong, but it's safest) until the exit before mine when I'll get in left and stay there regardless of how slow it's going.

Left lane unless I'm overtaking, and if there is a car tootling along in the middle lane I will cross over two lanes to overtake those assholes because I'm not going to let some idiot who doesn't know how to use the road force me not to drive properly. Two wrongs and all that jazz.

God those drivers boil my feckin blood.

Hermy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So what's the choice? Drive in a defensive manner as he describes or keep backing off every time to accommodate the idiots.. which incidentally will probably cause the guy behind him to get frustrated and do something stupid like undertaking, tailgating etc

The manner he describes is not defensive driving.