The Man In The High Castle [Amazon] [**SPOILERS**]

OldMrBrennan83

pixelburp wrote: »

I disagree, better for stories to finish on their own terms, the tale taken to a natural conclusion than endlessly burning past the point of no return.

It's one of about 4 shows I watch so I'd definitely rather see it continue.

troyzer

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

pixelburp wrote: »

I disagree, better for stories to finish on their own terms, the tale taken to a natural conclusion than endlessly burning past the point of no return.

It's one of about 4 shows I watch so I'd definitely rather see it continue.

If it continues, it'll eventually get ****e.

See House of Cards, Lost, House and many others. West Wing was teetering but managed to land it.

The Sopranos will always be magnificent.

Agent Coulson

Season 4 trailer.

Agent Coulson

Final season drops November 15th.

EoinMcLovin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIT2JD4BJ9M

Agent Coulson

Official recap ahead of the final season launch next month

Agent Coulson

Drops in the morning.

Agent Coulson

It's actually out now for you late night binge watchers.

_Kaiser_

Already 4 episodes in since earlier this evening. Flying along so far I have to say.

pixelburp

Episode 1 and I wonder was there some contractual or scheduling issue, I didn't expect

Tagomi to be killed off screen and unseen, bar a few shots of the back of a lookalikes head

. Despite that disappointing moment, it got off to an intriguing start, the show has come a long way from its lugubrious opening season.

s8n

I had to google what lugubrious meant !!

siblers

First two episodes not great so far, pace is very slow for a final season

Slydice

1: I hope the time jump in first episode isn't a sign they are gonna rush this to wrap the series up.

The death of Tagomi was a bit of a surprise. The suddeness kinda suggests to me that the actor became unavailable or contact stuff.. or again, rushing.

The scene where the

inspectors son flinches away from the violence

felt well done.

I'm pretty sure I recognised the face on the BCR magazine as yer man from Supergirl. I can't rememeber if he was in previous seasons.

EoinMcLovin

Slydice wrote: »

1: I hope the time jump in first episode isn't a sign they are gonna rush this to wrap the series up.

The death of Tagomi was a bit of a surprise. The suddeness kinda suggests to me that the actor became unavailable or contact stuff.. or again, rushing.

The scene where the

inspectors son flinches away from the violence

felt well done.

I'm pretty sure I recognised the face on the BCR magazine as yer man from Supergirl. I can't rememeber if he was in previous seasons.

Yer man from the magazine was not in the previous seasons and yeah he’s in Supergirl. The members of the BCR are all new cast.

GottaGetGatt

I though Kido’s son was killed in the war?

pixelburp

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

I though Kido’s son was killed in the war?

Tagomis was, I think his wife passed too, but Kido's son and wife are still around.

The biggest surprise for me was that China still existed. I had honestly just presumed it was absorbed by Japan (though sounds like they have Manchuria)

_Kaiser_

Almost done. On episode 9 now and..

When the portal seems to spontaneously activate, all I could think of was "unscheduled off world activation"

Slydice

2: There's that eerie feeling I remember (from the

discussion of where the black people went

).

The end of this episode kinda had me thinking about Juliana

and how it's been a year.. and the whole time she knows. Not sure why she didn't go direct to the Government and instead seems to be taking time to research/learn the crossing technique.

Smith

in the Alt World.. hrmmm.. a business man eh? in Virginia eh? CIA Virginia eh? Stays away from home for long periods eh? in CIA Virginia eh?

OK So.

pixelburp wrote: »

Tagomis was, I think his wife passed too, but Kido's son and wife are still around.

The biggest surprise for me was that China still existed. I had honestly just presumed it was absorbed by Japan (though sounds like they have Manchuria)

Similarly I thought Japan was much bigger than the map they showed.

pixelburp

Slydice wrote: »

Similarly I thought Japan was much bigger than the map they showed.

I'm guessing then that China aren't the only remaining independent power left, presuming there are others. Maybe India, Brazil? IIRC in the novel Canada was a neutral country that many Americans fled to. I've seen fleeting glances of world maps so I'd be curious what the adaptations world looks like.

Slydice

3: Oh crap.

Now Smith can come over. Not only that but he's gonna realise the hack of being able to replace people he kills in the Alt-World

pixelburp wrote: »

I'm guessing then that China aren't the only remaining independent power left, presuming there are others. Maybe India, Brazil? IIRC in the novel Canada was a neutral country that many Americans fled to. I've seen fleeting glances of world maps so I'd be curious what the adaptations world looks like.

All I really noticed was

• the Americas: Mexico, Columbia.. maybe Argentina
• the world pivot (less Iran)

GottaGetGatt

Only 3 episodes in buy thinking it will turn out something along the lines of Counterpart

Slydice

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

Only 3 episodes in buy thinking it will turn out something along the lines of Counterpart

This is the last season though from what I remember.. so either something big is gonna go down or they'll speed up rapidly or end on a cliffhanger or with the potential to have a different series set up to take over.. I dunno.

_Kaiser_

Slydice wrote: »

This is the last season though from what I remember.. so either something big is gonna go down or they'll speed up rapidly or end on a cliffhanger or with the potential to have a different series set up to take over.. I dunno.

Finished it last night. It's the last season alright.

Finale spoilers ahead!!

A lot happens in the last 2/3 episodes alright. I think maybe a bit too much, too quickly with several time skips.

The Japanese withdrawal itself could have been half a season but it's kind of just wedged in there as almost an afterthought

As for the ending. Lots of unanswered questions there.

It looks like with Smith dead, and his second assuming command, the beginning of the end of the American Reich and restoration of some sort of USA is likely - but what about the deal with the German guy who helped him take down Himmler? With Smith gone, the autonomy deal dies with him surely, especially if the US tries to do a Brexit? I can't see Berlin standing idly by while one of their biggest prizes just leaves and reintegrates what they consider to be undesirables.

I'm assuming that the influx of people through the portal are people who were killed under the Nazi regime (given the previously established rules on who can travel). How did they get there though? Were they able to travel like Julianna or just "magically" arrived from across the multiverse? I presumed Hawthorne went off to find his wife in one of those realities anyway.

The Chief Inspector becoming part of the Yakuza to buy his son's passage back to Japan (especially under the notion of atoning for previous deeds) was a stretch though. Did Chilton end up on that same boat then too? (another bit of afterthought)

As for John. I think the key there was his admission to Helen on the train that he didn't know how to stop anymore. Despite his conscience and doubts, he had gone all in 20 years ago and there was no turning back now despite the horrors it was about to lead to again.
I'm not sure I bought the suicide though, but I suppose it's a good nod to Hitler's end in the real universe.

Probably a lot more to consider but overall I enjoyed this season a lot. Started watching it Friday night and was done a day later because it just kept me hooked and moving along.

Slydice

4:

I knew it! I knew he'd go through. Couldn't resist the son! Probably come a point where he'll have to decide between walking away altogether or staying where he is. Juliana definitely gonna kill him regardless I bet!

Agent Coulson

Damm what an ending to episode 9!!

Watched it all yesterday, thoroughly enjoyed it though there are many questions about the ending.

_Kaiser_

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Damm what an ending to episode 9!!

HEIL SMITH!! :eek:

I know.. Should have guessed he'd have some way out after how he and Hoover turned the tables last season when it looked like he was done, but still!

Agent Coulson

Ok finished it and I really think there was another season in this.

It feels like the rushed it and truncated two seasons into one.

Saying that I still loved it.


Some great performances from Alexa Davalos, Jason O'Mara, Chelah Horsdal, Brennan Brown and of course Rufus Sewell.

Encrypted Pigeon

I really enjoyed this finale. I have to agree, a lot was happening in this season that could have been spread out over two, but having said that it is good to finish on their terms and not have it drag out either.

Overall, the whole series, I enjoyed, the first season, felt like a slow burner, but once I got into it, couldn't get enough.

I really thought Smith's character was acted superbly.

Homelander

Not a big fan of the ending - in principle it's not bad at all, but it all seemed very rushed in the last 2 episodes, didn't get that big sense of payoff and it being earned, felt like I'd missed an episode or two....or three.

I hated how

John became a completely one-dimensional super baddy in the space of one or two episodes rather than having that bit of relatable humanity there was to him up to that point.

I liked the idea of

a seperate American Reich that would be more tolerant, open and progressive than the German Reich, also liked how the Nazi nor Japanese Empire's didn't actually fall, fail or were defeated, a genuinely realistic outcome of such a scenario.

Good season, great show, but a little rushed in the end. Not Game of Thrones rushed though, and it's definitely worth recommending.

Slydice

4.5: fuuuuuuuccck

the ending with Smith letting Danny get taken away in the truck

Looking at the credits, nothing jumps off the page at me:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8856418/fullcredits

So I've got to give that one to the acting of Rufus Sewell (Smith)

KerranJast

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It looks like with Smith dead, and his second assuming command, the beginning of the end of the American Reich and restoration of some sort of USA is likely - but what about the deal with the German guy who helped him take down Himmler? With Smith gone, the autonomy deal dies with him surely, especially if the US tries to do a Brexit? I can't see Berlin standing idly by while one of their biggest prizes just leaves and reintegrates what they consider to be undesirables.

Yer man mentioned at one point mid season that the American Reich had enough nukes to be a superpower in its own right.

I suspect a Cold War and MAD would ensue between both countries.

Super obvious Vietnam vibes going on with the Japanese withdrawal.

It was all very last days of Saigon there at the end.

On the overall end, I was with it up until the randos came through the portal.

That made 0 zero sense at all.

Surely the obvious ending was the Resistance choosing to destroy the portal and to rebuild their own world themselves?

Felt like at best a rush, at worst a copout.

Slydice

4.6: Hrrmmm not sure where they are taking this.

Looks like the

Japanese might get wiped out probably by the BCR, the Chinese and the Nazis... or they want peace

Not sure what

Smith or Juliana are gonna do.

Slydice

4.7: Well..

that's the former USA over to the Nazis. Can't see the BCR stopping that. Juliana gotta kill Smith now... or maybe he crosses over and closes the portal completely.. somehow.

Slydice

4.8: Wow! That was a top episode. Ended

so tense!

So much in it!

• West Coast to the BCR but really given to the Nazis
• Chief Inspectors kid getting leverage over Kido for the Yakuza
• Poor old Caroline and Hawthorne Abendsen
• Freakin Hoover
  LITERALLY setting out on his plan to turn America into Oceania from 1984
• MARTHA! (Rachel Nichols who was Kiera Cameron in the Continuum TV Series!)
  and the Knife to the Eye scene!
• Yukiko (who has made a great impression this season)
  and Childan getting married
• The lynching of the chief inspector and the BCR stopping it.
  What was that room they locked him into? It seemed familiar? Am I remember right that they were going to kill a kid in an earlier season?
• The resistance op to get to Helen Smith!
• Yer man from the Yakuza being all gangsta with the BCR
• Smith,
  wow the decision to go to Berlin and also the option to Rebel against the Nazis. So tense at the end with him in the darkness.. but also with evil mastermind music?

So much plot.. but they did it well.. but like.. were they cramming a lot in? Maybe they had planned for more seasons.

The song though, right in the middle, I burst out laughing!
Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Has_Only_Got_One_Ball

Slydice

4.9: I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't expecting

Smith to be so completely outdone. Then I wasn't expecting Smith to have to completely outdone Hoover and Himmler.

All the same, I still think

there's gonna be a war with the West Coast

but Don't think! Oh no, don't think I missed that scene

where the portal opened by itself! This could well be first contact or an invasion by yet another alt-world

.

Slydice

Finished!

Overall: Series was done well and actually had an ending! The ideas and universe definitely leave open the possibility of more work being done but for different stories.

4.10: My top moments were

Helen making sure John knew it was her and John Smith getting that he was the worst him he had seen. The calling off the bombing and the visuals of the bombers changing course was done well.

For the future,

I imagine this world is gonna have it rough. Feels like there's been enough of this world developed for now though. Maybe a future series could be Abendsen going to one of the other worlds and a new story takes up from there.

I'm guessing it's unlikely. Feels like there hasn't been enough chatters about the show to date.

Slydice

This eventually stops whistling around in my head right? ... right?

Slydice wrote: »

The song though, right in the middle, I burst out laughing!
Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Has_Only_Got_One_Ball

pixelburp

Episode 6 finished and this has that classic "last season" feel; stories all hurtling towards a reckoning at a pace unrecognisable from the start of this show. This is really ending on a hot streak for sure. Not entirely clear though how some - particularly those in the Pacific States - will find a happy ending as

surely the moment the Japanese retreated, the Nazis would sweep in and exterminate the BCR and whoever's left

Childen remains one of the cast I'm more unsure if I want to see lose or win; he's actually a brilliant character really, a survivor who has barely squeaked by through sheer obsequiousness alone; buying into the Japanese way, but will never be accepted or respected by them. He's a jerk, but I don't think a fundamentally bad man, just misguided maybe. Smith has blood on his hands for his collaboration, but Childen never really left that state of eating mice to survive.

JoeA3

I'm only on episode 6 of this so I'm trying to avoid the spoilers posted above, but...

has anyone watched this show and "Power"? If so, surely I'm not the only one who's noticed that John Smith's penthouse is exactly the same as Ghost's?!

I really love this show, most especially the John Smith storyline. Brilliant character, well played by Rufus Sewell. I don't care as much for the Pacific States storylines.

JoeA3

I think there's actually great potential for a spin off series on this, focusing on John Smith only - i.e. how did he go from a low to mid ranking US solider in 1946 to the top dog Nazi within 10-12 years?

I love all the imagery they show, of how they imagine NYC might have looked, e.g. the Statue of Liberty being replaced by that hideous Nazi statue! There hasn't been enough of that... too many filler stories from the Pacific states imo and I mostly find the Julianna character very dull. When it focuses on John Smith, its on top form.

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers originally intended Julianna and the other guy who was killed off last year (Joe Blake?) to be the top dogs, but Rufus Sewell has clearly stolen the show.

pixelburp

Episode 9 and seems fitting that there are shadows of the Roman empire going on, with the apparent creation of two

emperors

. Pretty tense episode all round, has that sense of the twilight installment before the big finale. Can't see the MCR lasting though, and sounds like even they don't know what to do with their gains.

silverharp

the last scene was pure bolloox , what was that hippy dippy ending all about?. I was half expecting the US military from the other side.

pixelburp

Very underwhelming ending there; so many bows to tie and many of them either handwaved away or just given short shrift. The BCR suffering most, despite being a prominent part of this last season.

Maybe they wanted to crystalise it all into this moment of clarity for John Smith, but the show was ensemble enough that many deserved better. I suppose there was no neat ending to be had either way, the world too far gone for a sudden course correction; even so, some sense of what the new normal might look like would have been nice before the credits rolled.

And those final moments? Hmmmm I dunno. All felt a touch too abstract and ambiguous for the sake of it.

Always especially disappointing when an incredibly strong final season flubs the landing.

Standman

I really enjoyed it up to episode 8 but it really went off a cliff for me in the last two episodes. Can't remember if I've ever watched a show I enjoyed so much go off the rails so rapidly in the final episodes. Stories and arcs that had been slowly building over many episodes/seasons took sudden sharp right turns.

The decemation of the nazi leadership by Smith and his apparent co-conspirator came out of nowhere and felt like a cheap attempt by the writers to get themselves out of a corner. Then once Smith was basically the fuhrer of the USA he continued on with the nazi ways even though it was clear he hated it.

I thought fair enough maybe he can't just throw away the old rule book immediately or he'll be next in the firing line, but then as soon as he tops himself his second in command immediately calls off the attack and tosses his nazi medal thingy on the table. Why didn't smith do that?? All over the place! And not to mention whatever was supposed to be going on with all those people coming through the portal.

It's almost as if they only found out there'd be no 5th season when they'd finished filming most of the 4th and had to hastily patch together some kind of conclusion.

Del.Monte

Couldn't agree more - the last couple of episodes were rubbish and destroyed any possibility of another season.

silverharp

I was hoping for a redemption arc for Smith , but I guess current year Yo!

pixelburp

I do wonder if it was only very late into production that it was known the show wouldn't get a fifth season, necessitating a hasty rewrite of the finale? Season 4 spent so much time building up this new, potentially interesting & effective faction with the BCR, plus the latter creation of

two Fuhrers

only to completely sidestep both in the finale. Great storytelling potential there, ignored for that weird abstract ending (further to my wondering, did the writers ever go on record as to what the finale actually was?)

Going to rename this thread BTW to flag spoilers 'cos I think Season 4 is in the rear-view mirror enough to no longer need the text. Especially given the show is now finished.

Mr.Nice Guy

I just finished watching through this series and enjoyed it a lot, although it frustrated me in places. I think the loss of big characters hurt it a lot, the lack of character reactions to massive moments, and the much hoped for redemption arc that I didn't get, which left me conflicted.

Difficult to talk about 4 seasons of storylines in one post, so it might be best to just go through the characters individually and give thoughts...

(Needless to say, spoilers below...)


John Smith - This was one of my favourite characters on the show, and I thought carried it at times, particularly in the final season. I really wanted that redemption arc for him as I touched on above, and I'm in two minds about not getting it.

I suppose the defence for not getting it is to say that he had lost himself in his Nazism, and the fact that in reality many high profile Nazis were unable to redeem themselves and rediscover their conscience. There was also that talk the alt-Smith had with Juliana in the diner where he revealed he left the military as he was worried what he might turn into. I can see that argument.

On the other hand, we did see Smith turn away from Nazism when it came between him and his family, e.g. killing the doctor to save his son. He was willing to draw up plans to have his son kidnapped rather than be killed. I feel like his family could have been the necessary nudge to have him turn away from the Reich, if the writers so wished. Maybe a confrontation with his eldest daughter, or have Helen learn about the films sooner.

Juliana - I liked the character's growth in the early seasons but by the end it was verging on to Mary Sue territory. It reminded me a bit of The Walking Dead and how the character of Carol went from timid, to basically a super solider. What also bugged me was, as I noted in my opening paragraph, characters not responding to big moments, and this was very evident with Juliana. Where was the reaction to Frank's death? Kido had killed both her sister and now the love of her life, and we get nothing? Shouldn't she have wanted revenge on him, or at least wrestled with the thought of it? And what about her parents? Were they okay? Did she check? And why was Trudi never seen in the show again? Did she look her up in the alt world? Or her own father? Then there's Tagomi - where was the reaction to his death? Wouldn't this all take a desperate toll? Give me that instead of hippy, traveller Juliana.

Tagomi - the loss of this character was a big blow I thought. He was one of my favourite characters. I would have liked a better exit than they gave him, and a cameo in the last episode in a sort of dream sequence for Juliana would have been nice.

Frank - this character by contrast did get a decent conclusion. I liked that he found peace with his religion and the manner of his death was intense. I would have liked to learn what happened to the Jewish chap who took him under his wing, though.

Joe Blake - Joe was another character that didn't get any redemption, but I was fine with that in his case. He seemed too far gone by the brainwashing he had endured. Pity there was no cameos, though, for the character as I was sure he'd pop up in the alt world. The episode where he was killed totally surprised me.

Ed - One of the things that disappointed me most was we didn't get to see the reaction by Ed to news of Frank's death. Their friendship was one of the best things in the early seasons and yet if I recall correctly we actually had Ed tell the news to Childan, so we see his reaction rather than Ed's. I didn't get this as Childan's relationship to Frank was nothing meaningful.

Kido - I ended up liking this character a lot. I felt there was a profound redemption arc here. He started off as an absent, uncaring father, totally at the mercy of orders, and yet by the end he has opened up to his son and others, and showed a willingness to deviate from high command when it counted. There is a certain parallel with Smith here. Unlike Smith, Kido ended up saving his son and has freed himself from his old ways, albeit at a price. He ended up saving a lot of lives when you consider how he reached out to Smith with the film, and then the advice he gives the Empress.

Childan - I didn't really get this character early on. Childan does achieve a level of growth in his love life, but I was disappointed he never managed to break free of his love for the Empire. Even after Frank has died, he himself has been beaten up, even after he joins with Ed in unfurling Frank's banner on that building...he ultimately goes back to the way he was, bowing to the oppressors, and even mouthing off about the 'Negroes' to Kido, and advising that they can be beaten if they are treated without mercy. He turns out to be a survivor, but one without much honour in the end.

Wyatt Price/Liam - It was nice to see an Irish character in the show in a prominent role but I would have liked a more meaningful back story. Why did he leave Ireland for the US rather than resist in Europe? What drove him to risk his life battling the Reich? How about this: his wife died during childbirth and left him a son. His son found much solace in the Catholic church, but the son made the mistake of confessing to the local priest that he'd been having thoughts about other boys. The priest blabbed to the Nazis and Liam came home one day to discover the Nazis had taken his son to a camp and killed his boy. To Liam's horror, his neighbours wouldn't show sympathy, believing his boy had 'sinned'. Now having lost his son, his faith in God and his community, he killed the priest and fled to America, vowing to avenge his son by killing as many Nazis as he could. At least there you have a bit of depth to the character. He was far too two-dimensional for me.

Nicole - this character was largely useless once Joe died, and that lesbian storyline went nowhere. What did it reveal about her character, or add to the show? When I think of so many character reactions we were denied only to further this damp squib of a tale, it depresses me. I was hoping at least when Himmler confronted her about her actions that she might at least throw the other one under the bus, at least that would reveal how shallow and ruthless the Nazis could be. But we didn't even get that.

The Smith family - I thought Helen had a good redemptive arc in the end. I liked the scene where she looks at the plans for the gas chambers, which was powerful. I do wish we could have actually seen her eldest daughter Jennifer and the younger one being taken away by the Resistance. That way Jennifer would have learned that her mother did redeem herself in the end. You could have even had the younger sister who was deep into Nazism resist, and then have Jennifer convince her to go on the basis that this is 'a way out' - that would have been a nice throwback to the first episode with the two sisters Juliana and Trudi. Thomas was a good character and it was sad what happened to him. The episode where he volunteers to kill himself was a heavy one.

The ending - Like others, I was a bit baffled by the ending. I don't think it made sense to have the show conclude with a bunch of alt-world tourists popping in. I don't know if they were going for a Field of Dreams type ending or what. I think the portal closing would have been a fitting finale. Have the rebels and Juliana destroy the portal and prevent anyone from ever interfering in the other worlds again. Maybe have Abendsen tell Juliana that if they do this she won't ever see Trudi again - that might have been a powerful moment if we, you know, had seen Trudi again! Juliana would have then had to make a difficult decision.

Overall, I enjoyed the show. I read the book a good while back and it didn't stay with me as well as the TV series did. Rufus Sewell in particular was excellent as John Smith. I do wish we had more episodes of key characters, and I feel they could have elicited more drama than they did, but it was an absorbing programme nonetheless.

De Bhál

just started on this...is it worth it?

Seems ok so far but Juliana has just got a job in the Japanese government buildings, literally one day after been on the most wanted list?

No one has even batted an eyelid about that?

Is the rest of it going to have me asking these kind of questions - doubt I have the patience if so.