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Principal Officer in the Civil Service

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12467…34

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    #92
    going places
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭going places


    So I did not make it this time, anyone else got a result?


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    #93
    KCC
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭KCC


    Got placed in the fifties.


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    #94
    RiseToMe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭RiseToMe


    Wife has placed very early 60s. She's disappointed as she was hoping she would place at least the other side of 50 to be in with any chance. But I've not given up hope for her yet!


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    #95
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    I would have thought that you would need to be hitting the first 30 to be in with a realistic shout of a position, given the high level of the position and given that a number of Departments have active internal PO panels. But fingers crossed.


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    #96
    RiseToMe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭RiseToMe


    Uriel. wrote: »
    I would have thought that you would need to be hitting the first 30 to be in with a realistic shout of a position, given the high level of the position and given that a number of Departments have active internal PO panels. But fingers crossed.

    Yeah her opinion is first 20 have a good shot but beyond that to 50 it's just hope and anything higher and it's pissing in the wind. However for her sake I'll hope there is an serious drop out from any non internal candidates. Anyway well done all!


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    #97
    KCC
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭KCC


    Uriel. wrote: »
    I would have thought that you would need to be hitting the first 30 to be in with a realistic shout of a position, given the high level of the position and given that a number of Departments have active internal PO panels. But fingers crossed.

    I think you could be right. However, bear in mind that there could be people who got high up on this panel who have since been promoted internally to PO. Others may have only done it for practice/developmental purposes and may not be willing to take a pay cut as PO. Others (myself included) might be fussy re: location and as such will turn down offers.

    As such, there may be both external and internal "drop outs".


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    #98
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Whats the lifespan of the panel? There are quite a cohort at PO and APO who will be retiring in the next 18 months....... (not to mention the other grades)....... Some Departments have recently hit unusual milestones in the last few months (e.g. one has 51 as the average age of staff- which really is quite remarkable- and its far from unusual).......


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    #99
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    All depends on the economic circumstances and the length of time the panel stays active. If it was closer to two years rather than one year it might help but sure look, you never know what's around the corner. It would be interesting to know the % of the first 100 that are presently APs


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    #100
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Whats the lifespan of the panel? There are quite a cohort at PO and APO who will be retiring in the next 18 months....... (not to mention the other grades)....... Some Departments have recently hit unusual milestones in the last few months (e.g. one has 51 as the average age of staff- which really is quite remarkable- and its far from unusual).......
    Lifespan is at least one year. So it's hard to know how long it will remain active. But anything longer than 18 months would probably be unusual enough.


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    #101
    KCC
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭KCC


    Uriel. wrote: »
    All depends on the economic circumstances and the length of time the panel stays active. If it was closer to two years rather than one year it might help but sure look, you never know what's around the corner. It would be interesting to know the % of the first 100 that are presently APs

    I'm a HEO so this is a major achievement for me! I've only heard of three others who got placed and they are APs.


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    #102
    bubbatj
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭bubbatj


    First time poster here. I've been lurking on this thread for a while and thought I should contribute! Just thought I'd share what I'd heard, which is maybe a little more optimistic for those of you in the 20 to 50/60 range. I heard the original plan (discussed with the unions I believe) was to have a panel of 50. Given the panel has been extended there might be some hope that the PAS expects at least 50 posts to be filled. Nothing definitive but who knows. The initial number taken off the panel should give a fairly good steer anyway.

    Oh and Im in the mid 70s and not holding out much hope!


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    #103
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    KCC wrote: »
    I'm a HEO so this is a major achievement for me! I've only heard of three others who got placed and they are APs.

    Excellent achievement indeed. Well done.


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    #104
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    bubbatj wrote: »
    First time poster here. I've been lurking on this thread for a while and thought I should contribute! Just thought I'd share what I'd heard, which is maybe a little more optimistic for those of you in the 20 to 50/60 range. I heard the original plan (discussed with the unions I believe) was to have a panel of 50. Given the panel has been extended there might be some hope that the PAS expects at least 50 posts to be filled. Nothing definitive but who knows. The initial number taken off the panel should give a fairly good steer anyway.

    Oh and Im in the mid 70s and not holding out much hope!

    It seems to me that they just set a pass mark and everyone who reached the required level was given a place of merit, so I don't think there's an extended panel per sé


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    #105
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,906 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Good luck to all. I'm early retired PO (giving you all space to take my job.....lol).

    Went up the ranks, no outsiders much in my day, but I am glad that is changing now. New blood and all that.

    Be aware that you will more than likely have some HR function as in the PMDS.

    You will have your own targets as a PO too, which can sometimes be onerous.

    All in all, it's a great position. You can delegate like mad.... sign of a good manager!

    Anyway, as I said, best of luck.

    And no, I don't wish I was back there anymore, new life now with all that brings. But my time as PO was very interesting and challenging just the same, and the pay and conditions were IMV excellent too.


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    #106
    bubbatj
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭bubbatj


    Ah fair enough...that does make sense alright.


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    #107
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    bubbatj wrote: »
    Ah fair enough...that does make sense alright.

    I'm just speculating by the way. It's just I saw earlier someone said they were ranked in the 130s which would seem like an overly excessive panel unless they were just doing a pass mark type system.

    Nonetheless anyone who got into the top 150 is seriously good going given the level of po


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    #108
    Tkbok
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Tkbok


    Good and informative thread.
    I got placed in the 140s, so I have no chance in hell.
    Well done to all who made it in the top 50 and best of luck to those who didn't make it, there will be another opportunity!


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    #109
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Uriel. wrote: »
    I'm just speculating by the way. It's just I saw earlier someone said they were ranked in the 130s which would seem like an overly excessive panel unless they were just doing a pass mark type system.

    Nonetheless anyone who got into the top 150 is seriously good going given the level of po

    If there are set targets for internal and external candidates- they could keep adding people to the panels- until the lower of the two were met- aka- there could be vastly more people on one panel than needed- just to meet the requirements of the other panel......?

    130 POs- just seems completely improbable- quite incredible even.........


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    #110
    yobr
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭yobr


    Uriel. wrote: »
    I would have thought that you would need to be hitting the first 30 to be in with a realistic shout of a position, given the high level of the position and given that a number of Departments have active internal PO panels. But fingers crossed.

    There is currently an active debate on how PO's should be recruited in the civil service. Finance want all PO recruitment done through the open process while the AHCPS want a continuation of an internal aspect. The issue went to arbitration on 10th June. Depending on the outcome of this arbitration will also contribute to how fast the panel moves.


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    #111
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    If there are set targets for internal and external candidates- they could keep adding people to the panels- until the lower of the two were met- aka- there could be vastly more people on one panel than needed- just to meet the requirements of the other panel......?

    130 POs- just seems completely improbable- quite incredible even.........

    I am probably misunderstanding what you are saying, but I don't think there are two distinct panels created by PAS. Just one, irrespective of the background (e.g. Internal or external to the PS) of candidates.


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    #112
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    yobr wrote: »
    There is currently an active debate on how PO's should be recruited in the civil service. Finance want all PO recruitment done through the open process while the AHCPS want a continuation of an internal aspect. The issue went to arbitration on 10th June. Depending on the outcome of this arbitration will also contribute to how fast the panel moves.

    I would expect, or at least I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a compromise solution - i.e. a (relative) continuation of the status quo. Some competitions internal and some external - it then becomes a % thing - i.e. what % of vacancies are filled by internal competition versus external competition.


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    #113
    Public2015
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Public2015


    Does anyone know how the panel will work? If there is a post to be filled, it is offered to the panel in order of merit - ie starting at the highest ranked person still on the panel - until someone accepts it?

    If a panel member didn't accept the first job offered to him/her, would he/she remain on the panel or do you just get one shot at it?

    Also, if the departments have their own internal panels for PO positions, what is the likelihood of anyone on this panel being offered anything?

    (PS I made the cut so potentially in with a shout. Good luck to those who made the panel and commiserations to those who didn't - there will be more opportunities on the future)


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    #114
    Tivoli1300
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Tivoli1300


    Well done to all who made the panel - I didn't make it which is not a great surprise as I knew the analysis exercise did not go too well. I was surprised at my competency interview scores as already working at an equivalent level and felt I gave good examples but maybe they just didn't play well, as not from civil service.

    It was a tough process so all who made it should be seriously proud of themselves and best of luck - my guess based on age demographics and number of PI's is 60 positions.


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    #115
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    KCC wrote: »
    4 people out of six showed up on my day.

    Two were private sector (one male, one female) and two were civil service Assistant Principals (again one male and one female).

    Two people didn't show up and they were female. Their names were called out so it didn't seem like they had cancelled in advance.


    official stats indicate 85% PS and remainder private sector

    circa 45% women


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    #116
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    The_Conductor wrote: »

    130 POs- just seems completely improbable- quite incredible even.........

    there are around 1200 POs

    given the age profile you could expect significant retirements over next few years. it really comes down to the length of the panel

    also on the issue of internal vs external, the likelihood is that many people will be on both panels.


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    #117
    KCC
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭KCC


    yobr wrote: »
    There is currently an active debate on how PO's should be recruited in the civil service. Finance want all PO recruitment done through the open process while the AHCPS want a continuation of an internal aspect. The issue went to arbitration on 10th June. Depending on the outcome of this arbitration will also contribute to how fast the panel moves.

    Does anyone know how arbitration works? Is there a deadline for decision?

    Also, from what I can tell, nobody on the panel has received any offer yet?


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    #118
    Slydice
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    I'd say offers have been made. Ring them up and ask.


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    #119
    Uriel.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    Slydice wrote: »
    I'd say offers have been made. Ring them up and ask.

    Can't imagine there'd be many offers made until there's a clear picture with regard to how future vacancies are to be filled.


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    #120
    Slydice
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Uriel. wrote: »
    Can't imagine there'd be many offers made until there's a clear picture with regard to how future vacancies are to be filled.

    I'd say there's plenty of vacancies as POs tended to be old.

    Older civil servants have been pushed incentivised to leave in recent years with persion schemes.

    Still though, give em a call and ask if you are in the competition.


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    #121
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    The date for leaving under the old payscales- was recently extended again......... While some did indeed leave- many didn't- and current thought is that were all of those who could leave (aka all over the age of 60- but under 65) there would be catastrophe. I think the final leaving date- will continue to be pushed further and further into the future- however, there are still large numbers of vacant positions that need to be back filled (indeed- there are at all grades- but HODs can only spread themselves so thinly- some HODs may have staff at 6-7-8 locations around the country- which is nuts.


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