Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

LXFlyer

Karl8415 wrote: »

Just been checking the T/A flights today with EI out of Dublin and they were nearly all late leaving,why is that, because it seems a regular enough thing,it’s it congestion in the terminal or out in the ramp

What were you using to compare the times?

Locker10a

alancostello wrote: »

Are you really trying to compare the cancellations of a single aircraft operated by ASL to the cancellations of an entire fleet of aircraft operated by EI?

I think the point was ASL faired much better than EI did during this summer

Cloudio9

Karl8415 wrote: »

Just been checking the T/A flights today with EI out of Dublin and they were nearly all late leaving,why is that, because it seems a regular enough thing,it’s it congestion in the terminal or out in the ramp

Last time we were all seated an hour on the ground waiting for passengers from a delayed inbound EI flight which is a real pain when you have an 11 hour flight ahead of you. EI happy to piss off 300 people to save re accommodating 5 or 6 delayed connecting passengers.

goingnowhere

The TATL flight schedule is so padded that a delayed departure don't mean a late arrival. +30 minutes padding at least.

I managed to get into SFO 55 minutes early once and was sitting checked in at my hotel in downtown San Francisco before we were even due to land...

Third_Echelon

goingnowhere wrote: »

The TATL flight schedule is so padded that a delayed departure don't mean a late arrival. +30 minutes padding at least.

I managed to get into SFO 55 minutes early once and was sitting checked in at my hotel in downtown San Francisco before we were even due to land...

That’s a very early arrival. That flight is usually bang on the scheduled time.

Locker10a

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Last time we were all seated an hour on the ground waiting for passengers from a delayed inbound EI flight which is a real pain when you have an 11 hour flight ahead of you. EI happy to piss off 300 people to save re accommodating 5 or 6 delayed connecting passengers.

When you consider the decision is to delay everyone’s arrival by maybe 30/40 mins vs some people missing the flight and possibly being delayed overnight until the next day then I think it’s a fair compromise.

Stephen Strange

Locker10a wrote: »

When you consider the decision is to delay everyone’s arrival by maybe 30/40 mins vs some people missing the flight and possibly being delayed overnight until the next day then I think it’s a fair compromise.

30 min delay for 300 people = €0
Overnight delay for 10 people TATL = €6000 plus hotel costs, plus lost potential future revenue/negative NPS.

I know what decision I would take as a bean counter

goingnowhere

Someone also has to do the math on the missed connections on the far end also, typically once they get to a point of causing a problem downstream its doors closed and good bye

Mebuntu

Locker10a wrote: »

I think the point was ASL faired much better than EI did during this summer

Correct. All those flights listed were Aer Lingus. I've edited my post #7769 for clarity.

Tenger

Stephen Strange wrote: »

As far as I heard, CBP was mental yesterday, so may have been holding for large amount of pax to board

I've got it from an EI mate that they are very short on crew as well. Requests for pilots and cabin to volunteer to work on days off over the last week.

cson

Tenger wrote: »

I've got it from an EI mate that they are very short on crew as well. Requests for pilots and cabin to volunteer to work on days off over the last week.

They're all still governed by duty times though right? They'll be running up against those limits if they've short staffed the airline the back end of the year you'd imagine.

Locker10a

cson wrote: »

They're all still governed by duty times though right? They'll be running up against those limits if they've short staffed the airline the back end of the year you'd imagine.

Once the winter schedule comes in next month things will be quieter and this down time will possibly get them through ok with crew annual limitations.

Jamie2k9

Belfast

I don't think the Belfast routes getting dropped is a major surprise however it did emerge this week unions were seeking a new deal for the base with cabin crew who were not told before the media were about the closures. What profit if any would probally be wiped out if they stayed. I have a feeling they would have canceled this year but suspect the ASL deal had a clause in place. No way would they commit to only one season.

IRFU

I am a little surprised they didn't step up and fly the team to Japan. They got away in 2015 with the games in London. If still the sponsor in 2023 they will fly them to France.

Van.Bosch

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Belfast

I don't think the Belfast routes getting dropped is a major surprise however it did emerge this week unions were seeking a new deal for the base with cabin crew who were not told before the media were about the closures. What profit if any would probally be wiped out if they stayed. I have a feeling they would have canceled this year but suspect the ASL deal had a clause in place. No way would they commit to only one season.

IRFU

I am a little surprised they didn't step up and fly the team to Japan. They got away in 2015 with the games in London. If still the sponsor in 2023 they will fly them to France.

How would they have got them there, the A330 doesn’t have the range? Would they stop en route to refuel?

goingnowhere

A330-200 has the range

EI will fly the team to any current EI destination no question. Financially Japan is not happening

alentejo

goingnowhere wrote:

EI will fly the team to any current EI destination no question. Financially Japan is not happening

The cost of taking an a332 out of service to fly a once off flight to Japan not to mention a empty return flight. Different economics than Short haul

Jamie2k9

Of course it would be costly however not as if they couldn't afford to fly them and could generate some good PR as well.

There are times when costs are not a top priority such as aid flights operated before. I am not comparing the major difference between rugby team and a aid disaster flight but more EI could have taken the decision to fly them.

Its a missed opportunity.

Cookiemunster

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Of course it would be costly however not as if they couldn't afford to fly them and could generate some good PR as well.

There are times when costs are not a top priority such as aid flights operated before. I am not comparing the major difference between rugby team and a aid disaster flight.

Its a missed opportunity.

It's not really. There was loads of publicity around them leaving DUB on the Aer Lingus rugby special. The vast majority of people have no idea that they only went to LHR and changed airlines. And anyways, the 332 doesn't have enough business class seats.

salmocab

There were 31 players plus coaches doctors etc does any EI plane have enough first/business class seats for 40 something people? Probably close to 50.

billy few mates

All they needed to do was photograph them standing on the steps of the aircraft to get the publicity return, after that they could have paid for every one of them to fly business class there and back on any number of other operators and it still would be cheaper and easier than taking an aircraft (plus crews, maintenance etc) out of service to do a one-off trip to Japan. It would have been a huge financial outlay for absolutely no additional return or extra publicity.
Once the general public see the team standing near the aircraft they'll work the rest out for themselves.

mikel97

Not Reality .

The AOC doesn't cover that area so they not allowed to go anywhere near Far East.
A330 would have to make stop or even 2 due to fuel crew requirements and more importantly the Pilots would have to be checked out operating in the Far East after getting (if)(expensively) any aoc extension. Who would check them out? No experience in that area.

And then there would be the Union demanding some massive pay for it.

Let the regular carriers do the real work. Lingus are ok to drop them to London

MOR316

Probably not for this thread but, I booked flights to the US last year and there was an option to pay a deposit and the rest at a later date.

That appears to be gone now. How come?

Jamie2k9

MOR316 wrote: »

Probably not for this thread but, I booked flights to the US last year and there was an option to pay a deposit and the rest at a later date.

That appears to be gone now. How come?

It doesn't apply to saver fares but should still apply to smart and above.

Jamie2k9

mikel97 wrote: »

Not Reality .

The AOC doesn't cover that area so they not allowed to go anywhere near Far East.
A330 would have to make stop or even 2 due to fuel crew requirements and more importantly the Pilots would have to be checked out operating in the Far East after getting (if)(expensively) any aoc extension. Who would check them out? No experience in that area.

And then there would be the Union demanding some massive pay for it.

Let the regular carriers do the real work. Lingus are ok to drop them to London

Anything to back up AOC statement?

Jack1985

This A330 to Japan talk is a nonsense, joe public saw the team on the steps of an Aer Lingus aircraft, all the usual extravagance on display. There is simply no justification for an A330 to fly two empty sectors to Japan to bring out and return the rugby team.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Anything to back up AOC statement?

I for one don't believe EI have a permit to overfly Russia. Which is typically the most fuel efficient way to reach Japan.

goingnowhere

AOC's do stipulate 'areas of operation'

EI has operated in strange places over the years so if they wanted to do it, it wouldn't be impossible, Dublin Tokyo is pretty much the same flying time as LAX so range and crew rest are covered as the -200 is fitted

The only operational difference is if flying over CIS/China they fly metric not imperial, need to find someone to handle you in Tokyo, assuming BA or JAL would sort them out. Russia might not be friendly but EI had extensive agreements with Aeroflot in the 80's so again someone somewhere knows how to sort it.

But its all fantasy...

MOR316

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It doesn't apply to saver fares but should still apply to smart and above.

Thank you so much for replying and reading my post. Appreciate the help

Strumms

goingnowhere wrote: »

AOC's do stipulate 'areas of operation'

EI has operated in strange places over the years so if they wanted to do it, it wouldn't be impossible, Dublin Tokyo is pretty much the same flying time as LAX so range and crew rest are covered as the -200 is fitted

The only operational difference is if flying over CIS/China they fly metric not imperial, need to find someone to handle you in Tokyo, assuming BA or JAL would sort them out. Russia might not be friendly but EI had extensive agreements with Aeroflot in the 80's so again someone somewhere knows how to sort it.

But its all fantasy...

Basically for the PR Aer Lingus would get... the costs of them doing it would outweigh any advantage. PR etc is all well and good but the operating costs from crewing - pay & hotels, fuel especially, having the airframe out of service for a couple of days and needing to possibly shift around aircraft or acquire a hire in... for the coverage the money wouldn’t be well spent.

billy few mates

It's the law of diminishing returns, they could fly them there and back twice a week and it would reach a point where it wouldn't make any difference to the amount of publicity generated, people actually have a very short attention span.
Aer Lingus would have achieved peak publicity once they're photographed at the bottom of the steps of the IRFU branded aircraft surrounded by the crew, after that the next shots they'll see are those of the team going through arrivals in Japan, what happens in between or how they got there will be of little interest to most people...

Noxegon

mikel97 wrote: »

A330 would have to make stop or even 2 due to fuel crew requirements

Two stops? Nonsense.

A330-200 range is 13400km.

DUB-HND is 9600km.

As others have noted there are many reasons why a one-off flight would be problematic, but aircraft range isn’t one of them.