Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

kevinandrew

The cockpit window mask is entirely optional, I don’t believe it has any operational advantage whereas on the A350 it supposedly does but I’m not sure what exactly.

I wouldn’t go by the Airbus image either, if you look closely you’ll see they’ve placed the old shamrock design on the outside of the winglet.

Cookiemunster

kevinandrew wrote: »

The cockpit window mask is entirely optional, I don’t believe it has any operational advantage whereas on the A350 it supposedly does but I’m not sure what exactly.

I wouldn’t go by the Airbus image either, if you look closely you’ll see they’ve placed the old shamrock design on the outside of the winglet.

The photos of the painted LR in Hamburg show that it doesn't have it, so it's unlikely the XLR will either.

kevinandrew

Could the IAG order for the 737 MAX trigger a fleet reshuffle within the group? 


IAG has indicated that Vueling, Level and British Airways Gatwick will be the 737 MAX operators while the remaining carriers, British Airways Heathrow, Aer Lingus and Iberia will remain Airbus narrow body operators. 


Vueling is currently all Airbus and is actively taking delivery of A320neo frames but the latest suggests they'll transition to all Boeing so there's a large number of young A320neo's and those remaining on order that will need a home within the group and Aer Lingus could be in line for those. 

IAG has 80 on order and 35 A320neo's in operation so there's plenty of room within the group to move them around now that the MAX has been ordered and should take care of three short haul fleets in the group.

I hope Aer Lingus see's some movement on short haul fleet renewal, I don't count the A321LR as while it will feature on short haul occasionally, it's main mission will be transatlantic and it's not fully optimised for the short haul network.

alancostello

kevinandrew wrote: »

Could the IAG order for the 737 MAX trigger a fleet reshuffle within the group? 


IAG has indicated that Vueling, Level and British Airways Gatwick will be the 737 MAX operators while the remaining carriers, British Airways Heathrow, Aer Lingus and Iberia will remain Airbus narrow body operators. 


Vueling is currently all Airbus and is actively taking delivery of A320neo frames but the latest suggests they'll transition to all Boeing so there's a large number of young A320neo's and those remaining on order that will need a home within the group and Aer Lingus could be in line for those. 

IAG has 80 on order and 35 A320neo's in operation so there's plenty of room within the group to move them around now that the MAX has been ordered and should take care of three short haul fleets in the group.

I hope Aer Lingus see's some movement on short haul fleet renewal, I don't count the A321LR as while it will feature on short haul occasionally, it's main mission will be transatlantic and it's not fully optimised for the short haul network.

This is exactly why IAG moved to standardise galleys and equipment across their fleets, to facilitate the easy transition of aircraft from one airline to another. All EI or BA would have to do to take an ex-Vueling or ex-LEVEL aircraft is repaint and change the doily that hangs over the headrest, BA and Vueling A320neos are essentially indistinguishable on the inside.

john boye

kevinandrew wrote: »

Could the IAG order for the 737 MAX trigger a fleet reshuffle within the group? 


IAG has indicated that Vueling, Level and British Airways Gatwick will be the 737 MAX operators while the remaining carriers, British Airways Heathrow, Aer Lingus and Iberia will remain Airbus narrow body operators. 


Vueling is currently all Airbus and is actively taking delivery of A320neo frames but the latest suggests they'll transition to all Boeing so there's a large number of young A320neo's and those remaining on order that will need a home within the group and Aer Lingus could be in line for those. 

I was thinking exactly that earlier (if the max order comes to pass). Would give EI a new or nearly-new batch of NEOs and all it would take is a transfer from Vuelling.

GM228

kevinandrew wrote: »

The cockpit window mask is entirely optional, I don’t believe it has any operational advantage whereas on the A350 it supposedly does but I’m not sure what exactly.

I wouldn’t go by the Airbus image either, if you look closely you’ll see they’ve placed the old shamrock design on the outside of the winglet.

On the A350 the mask is used for "harmonising the thermal condition of [the] temperature-sensitive window area", due to them having curved cockpit glass.

A few years ago Airbus announced the A330neo would also have the mask, (they call it the "Shades"), but I'm not certain if it is a design feature or just looks nice. On that point I'll say personally I do think the masks look well.

I have read that on other models it is optional to reduce costs for replacement parts, as the entire window surround panel can be removed it is cheaper to supply spare parts in a standard colour rather than paint to each airlines specific shade, hence why some airlines have it on the A321LRs and some don't as already mentioned, it's most likely a costs based decision. Similar to unpainted aluminium window surrounds?

Tenger

GM228 wrote: »

........
I have read that on other models it is optional to reduce costs for replacement parts, as the entire window surround panel can be removed it is cheaper to supply spare parts in a standard colour rather than paint to each airlines specific shade, hence why some airlines have it on the A321LRs and some don't as already mentioned, it's most likely a costs based decision. Similar to unpainted aluminium window surrounds?

Thats the initial reason I had read about the raccoon/bandit mask on the A350.
The feature is also on the A330neo, not sure if that is cosmetic or for the same repair/replacement reason.

Im guessing its a cosmetic feature on the A321LR (unless they have changed the cockpit windows without pointing it out)

Van.Bosch

kevinandrew wrote: »

Could the IAG order for the 737 MAX trigger a fleet reshuffle within the group? 


IAG has indicated that Vueling, Level and British Airways Gatwick will be the 737 MAX operators while the remaining carriers, British Airways Heathrow, Aer Lingus and Iberia will remain Airbus narrow body operators. 


Vueling is currently all Airbus and is actively taking delivery of A320neo frames but the latest suggests they'll transition to all Boeing so there's a large number of young A320neo's and those remaining on order that will need a home within the group and Aer Lingus could be in line for those. 

IAG has 80 on order and 35 A320neo's in operation so there's plenty of room within the group to move them around now that the MAX has been ordered and should take care of three short haul fleets in the group.

I hope Aer Lingus see's some movement on short haul fleet renewal, I don't count the A321LR as while it will feature on short haul occasionally, it's main mission will be transatlantic and it's not fully optimised for the short haul network.

I still reckon this is a PR move, for IAG to get a better deal from Airbus and Boring to get some good news re the max. Seems huge to move Vueling to a 737 operation.

Saying that, does that mean a single fleet operator can never change, which seems wrong.

Kcormahs

We may see Agadir again and a new route to Marrakesh with Aer Lingus soon enough, accordingly to a few sources:

https://www.infomediaire.net/aerien-aer-lingus-va-bientot-atterrir-au-maroc/

http://northafricapost.com/31935-for-ireland-morocco-is-gateway-to-african-markets.html

GM228

Tenger wrote: »

Thats the initial reason I had read about the raccoon/bandit mask on the A350.
The feature is also on the A330neo, not sure if that is cosmetic or for the same repair/replacement reason.

Im guessing its a cosmetic feature on the A321LR (unless they have changed the cockpit windows without pointing it out)

I think that was always the initial speculated reason as no official reason was ever really stated by Airbus or airlines, that is until last year, when Virgin Atlantic finally answered the long standing query in their Ruby blog:-

Why does the Airbus A350 wear a Zorro mask?

Next year we welcome our new aircraft the Airbus A350-1000 to our fleet, and everyone here at Virgin Atlantic is incredibly excited. We’ve got teams of people making sure its entry into service is smooth and we have a few surprises up our sleeves to delight you. Although we’re keeping things under wraps for the time being there’s one thing that’s been intriguing us about the aircraft. It’s a question that gets asked again and again. Why Zorro’s mask?

Every Airbus A350 comes with the distinct black masking around the pilot’s window. In today’s world when many aircraft look the same, it really makes the A350 stand out. Nobody has ever seen anything like it on any other civil aircraft. That Airbus don’t offer the aircraft without this feature suggested to us there was more to it than just a pair of sunnies for one of the most sophisticated jets in the sky. So we asked Airbus for an explanation:

“The A350 XWB is the first ever Airbus aircraft with curved cockpit glasses. These cockpit windows offer more than just the most futuristic, aesthetic and distinctive look. The new windshield enhances the overall aerodynamic efficiency of the aircraft,” said Donna Lloyd, Head of Communication Business Partners at Airbus.  “The perfectly curved shape of the nose helps the air flow hug the surface, in the least turbulent manner, thereby reducing drag. The emblematic “Ray-Ban” like black windshield eases the window’s maintenance and contributes to harmonising the thermal condition of this temperature-sensitive window area. The slightly concave nose area (seen from the side) offers the pilots an optimal view of the immediate surroundings easing ground operations and making them safer.”

So there you have it. Efficiency and safety, two of the most important elements of aviation, and super stylish too. Many thanks to Airbus for the interesting explanation.

Tenger

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I still reckon this is a PR move, for IAG to get a better deal from Airbus and Boring to get some good news re the max. Seems huge to move Vueling to a 737 operation.

Saying that, does that mean a single fleet operator can never change, which seems wrong.

Indeed. A letter of intent is not quite a firm order.
This could well be Deal between IAG and Boeing. Boost B737 sales, get a deal off B777x and/or B787s, get favorable slots on the B777x, (of which BA have 18 on order), and still have a large option in B737 to offer Level, Iberia or BA.

Lots of guesswork here, but we may never know the real tale for 4-5 years.

kevinandrew

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I still reckon this is a PR move, for IAG to get a better deal from Airbus and Boring to get some good news re the max. Seems huge to move Vueling to a 737 operation.

Saying that, does that mean a single fleet operator can never change, which seems wrong.

You could be right, Airbus today confirmed they didn't even receive a request to bid for the order suggesting it was most definitely an orchestrated move by IAG to squeeze Boeing at a tough time. Airbus are now actively interested in winning the order back from Boeing. 

I think this order could go either way;

- Airbus offers a killer deal on 200+ A320neo Family aircraft + A220 Family as a cherry on top. Boeing scorned. 
- IAG sticks with Boeing, it's a good deal, keeps Boeing sweet and allows the group to diversify its fleet requirements making future orders even more competitive. Most of the large American carriers follow a similar strategy. 

I think overall this deal makes perfect sense for IAG in the long term but then so does sticking with Airbus.

L1011

Airbus don't have the delivery slots - Boeing have quite a few from recently failed airlines that were due to take deliveries and there will almost certainly be cancellations that are still being suppressed from the whole grounding debacle. If you want that size of aircraft in that volume quick there's no point talking to Airbus.

Jamie2k9

Kcormahs wrote: »

We may see Agadir again and a new route to Marrakesh with Aer Lingus soon enough, accordingly to a few sources:

https://www.infomediaire.net/aerien-aer-lingus-va-bientot-atterrir-au-maroc/

http://northafricapost.com/31935-for-ireland-morocco-is-gateway-to-african-markets.html

Interesting, must be some form of marketing support on offer if they happen.

kevinandrew

Kcormahs wrote: »

We may see Agadir again and a new route to Marrakesh with Aer Lingus soon enough, accordingly to a few sources:

https://www.infomediaire.net/aerien-aer-lingus-va-bientot-atterrir-au-maroc/

http://northafricapost.com/31935-for-ireland-morocco-is-gateway-to-african-markets.html

This would be a welcome return to North Africa, I'll believe it when I see but I was definitely disappointed when Aer Lingus axed Agadir after operating it for the best part of a decade. 

Agadir was first announced as part of the 2007 winter schedule, it was accompanied by Helsinki, Bucharest, Copenhagen and Funchal along with Vilnius which became year round and Cork to Munich. None of these routes are still in operation today.

tanya1987

kevinandrew wrote: »

This would be a welcome return to North Africa, I'll believe it when I see but I was definitely disappointed when Aer Lingus axed Agadir after operating it for the best part of a decade. 

Agadir was first announced as part of the 2007 winter schedule, it was accompanied by Helsinki, Bucharest, Copenhagen and Funchal along with Vilnius which became year round and Cork to Munich. None of these routes are still in operation today.

Yeah same, I believe it when I see it. Arabia air marroco already flies to AGA not sure if its year around and Ryanair to Marrakesh. Id be surprised if EI goes back to this market unless there is a government incentive since they are investing in trade links between the two countries as said on those sources incld. a new Irish embassy in Agadir

Sexual Chocolate

Does anyone believe that EI will eventually look at flying long haul other than the US or Canada in the next number of years? Is it fair to say that they missed an opportunity with Hong Kong giving how popular it's became for Cathay ?

GM228

Van.Bosch wrote: »

still reckon this is a PR move, for IAG to get a better deal from Airbus and Boring to get some good news re the max. Seems huge to move Vueling to a 737 operation.

Saying that, does that mean a single fleet operator can never change, which seems wrong.

Indeed, Airbus have called for a chance to bid.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-airshow-idUKKCN1TL0TR

Kev11491

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Does anyone believe that EI will eventually look at flying long haul other than the US or Canada in the next number of years? Is it fair to say that they missed an opportunity with Hong Kong giving how popular it's became for Cathay ?

They are focussing on North America, that's their business plan.

Locker10a

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Does anyone believe that EI will eventually look at flying long haul other than the US or Canada in the next number of years? Is it fair to say that they missed an opportunity with Hong Kong giving how popular it's became for Cathay ?

With the new aircraft they have coming, which will bring new economics to their operation, anything is possible I suppose

Nijmegen

Work at what you know. Diversifying the network within the US is as good as trying to diversify it to countries you've never successfully operated to before. EI has deep links there, eg with the United tie up. Geography plays a big role, Ireland is a good place to stop over going Europe-US and vice versa but it is not a good place vs Frankfurt or Amsterdam to connect from Asia or Africa into Europe for example.

Jack1985

kevinandrew wrote: »

This would be a welcome return to North Africa, I'll believe it when I see but I was definitely disappointed when Aer Lingus axed Agadir after operating it for the best part of a decade. 

Agadir was first announced as part of the 2007 winter schedule, it was accompanied by Helsinki, Bucharest, Copenhagen and Funchal along with Vilnius which became year round and Cork to Munich. None of these routes are still in operation today.

Just to point out ORK-MUC is winter ski seasonal. Aer Lingus didn't have the cost base to operate the above routes, they faced competition in HEL by DY (Much more established in Finland and known for Finnish travellers), Bucharest (Blueair and Ryanair sowed that up), Copenhagen (Competition from DY/SAS and FR).

Agadir previously tied up an airframe from late afternoon to midnight and the company wanted to send that frame elsewhere for increased sectors, Funchal wasn't as busy as most expected when it launched, it would probably be wise to start that at 1 weekly and go from there instead of the 4 weekly it launched at.

The companies goals are clear a thriving long-haul operation supported by a profitable short-haul business, nothing will compromise that however fancy the destination may sound.

kevinandrew

Jack1985 wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

This would be a welcome return to North Africa, I'll believe it when I see but I was definitely disappointed when Aer Lingus axed Agadir after operating it for the best part of a decade. 

Agadir was first announced as part of the 2007 winter schedule, it was accompanied by Helsinki, Bucharest, Copenhagen and Funchal along with Vilnius which became year round and Cork to Munich. None of these routes are still in operation today.

Just to point out ORK-MUC is winter ski seasonal. Aer Lingus didn't have the cost base to operate the above routes, they faced competition in HEL by DY (Much more established in Finland and known for Finnish travellers), Bucharest (Blueair and Ryanair sowed that up), Copenhagen (Competition from DY/SAS and FR).

Agadir previously tied up an airframe from late afternoon to midnight and the company wanted to send that frame elsewhere for increased sectors, Funchal wasn't as busy as most expected when it launched, it would probably be wise to start that at 1 weekly and go from there instead of the 4 weekly it launched at.

The companies goals are clear a thriving long-haul operation supported by a profitable short-haul business, nothing will compromise that however fancy the destination may sound.

I understand the reasoning behind why there routes (and around half a dozen others) have been axed in recent years but it raises the question, when does this lack of competitiveness become unacceptable?

The failures of individual routes can be explained away quite easily but the underlying issues always appear to be the same.

sandbelter

Interesting Aer Lingus twitter reply on June 19th.

Q: You still looking into the A330neo aircraft?

To which EI replied:

We are indeed! We should be announcing more news about them soon!

Maybe I'm missing something, But I didn't think EI was that close to a decision.

https://twitter.com/FullBatteryStu/status/1141251294302298112

alancostello

sandbelter wrote: »

Interesting Aer Lingus twitter reply on June 19th.

Q: You still looking into the A330neo aircraft?

To which EI replied:

We are indeed! We should be announcing more news about them soon!

Maybe I'm missing something, But I didn't think EI was that close to a decision.

https://twitter.com/FullBatteryStu/status/1141251294302298112

I’m not sure how up to date someone who is likely a marketing intern or low-level social media rep would be on fleet development and major decisions, I wouldn’t read too much in to it.

cson

A 330neo announcement would probably tie in with off loading the A350 order to Iberia/BA. Likely get unplaced A330neos off one of the lessors, Avolon/CIT/ALC who've 60 odd ordered between them. Definitely a more appropriate aircraft for the direction the airline is heading.

sandbelter

cson wrote: »

A 330neo announcement would probably tie in with off loading the A350 order to Iberia/BA. Likely get unplaced A330neos off one of the lessors, Avolon/CIT/ALC who've 60 odd ordered between them. Definitely a more appropriate aircraft for the direction the airline is heading.

So is this evaluation being undertaken in parallel of the ongoing A330neo/B787 contest which is being undertaken at an IAG level or is it part of it?

Tenger

alancostello wrote: »

I’m not sure how up to date someone who is likely a marketing intern or low-level social media rep would be on fleet development and major decisions, I wouldn’t read too much in to it.

I on the other hand would suspect that the social media boss wouldn’t respond in such a way without approval from above. This post is quite different from the usual “sorry about your experience, please DM your booking details”

I could see EI taking delivery of their next A333 (end of the year) and at a same time making a statement about an order for the A330neo which is ”the future of the A330 program”. (This statement will include some hype for the “very successful introduction of the A321LR into our fleet”)

The IAG/EI statement about the XLR order said delivery in 2022-23. A potential A330neo delivery could be planned for 2021. (A321LR deliveries are 19-20, so there is a gap for delivery the following year)

1123heavy

kevinandrew wrote: »

This would be a welcome return to North Africa, I'll believe it when I see but I was definitely disappointed when Aer Lingus axed Agadir after operating it for the best part of a decade. 

Agadir was first announced as part of the 2007 winter schedule, it was accompanied by Helsinki, Bucharest, Copenhagen and Funchal along with Vilnius which became year round and Cork to Munich. None of these routes are still in operation today.

Ryanair currently operate a monopoly to Vilnius and tickets are not cheap with it often costing 100eu+ even when you book in advance. I once checked 2 months in advance and they were 96eu each way. I suppose the issue is that if Aer Lingus were to start Vilnius again then suddenly Ryanair would drop their prices to fend them off and then they'll be alone on the market again

Tenger

2 articles in Irish papers yesterday about the IAG order for the MAX. It appears Airbus want a chance to counter offer. Looks like WW achieved his aim (or at least one of them)