Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

JCX BXC

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Appears to be a few rumours suggesting that BHD-FAO/AGP will be operated by ASL B733 to allow EI keep an extra A320 at DUB.

EI-STA is the one suggested, however doesn't that aircraft operate some charters for TUI in Ireland and NI?

ASL only have one B733 for passenger ops.

Jamie2k9

JCX BXC wrote: »

EI-STA is the one suggested, however doesn't that aircraft operate some charters for TUI in Ireland and NI?

ASL only have one B733 for passenger ops.

ASL France have given ASL Ireland 733 before so expect it would happen again.

Locker10a

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Appears to be a few rumours suggesting that BHD-FAO/AGP will be operated by ASL B733 to allow EI keep an extra A320 at DUB.

I always wondered why they didn’t do this for SNN-LHR, could be done the exact same as the 757s, aircraft owned by ASL, used by EI. The SNN based Crew already operate on the ASL 757, they could easily be extended to to the 737 too which would free up an A320 for elsewhere

JCX BXC

I've often heard the answer to that being that the 757's are old and need a bit of downtime and TLC.

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

I've often heard the answer to that being that the 757's are old and need a bit of downtime and TLC.

Think he means basing an ASL 737 at Shannon for use on the EI flights ex Shannon instead of using an EI 320. ASL pilots would be certified on the 737.

I would agree with using the 757s on T/A only. They're old enough and their replacements are a bit away yet.

HTCOne

Not to mention they’re 12 tonnes heavier than an A321, let alone a 320. Extra fuel burn would be considerable.

California Dreamer

What is the fuel burn on an A332 sitting at idle on the ground for an hour?

Was going to MCO last week and a pax was sick so between the jigs and the reels we sat there for an hour before pax was off loaded and topped the tanks and went on our way.

Lapmo_Dancer

Locker10a wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Appears to be a few rumours suggesting that BHD-FAO/AGP will be operated by ASL B733 to allow EI keep an extra A320 at DUB.

I always wondered why they didn’t do this for SNN-LHR, could be done the exact same as the 757s, aircraft owned by ASL, used by EI. The SNN based Crew already operate on the ASL 757, they could easily be extended to to the 737 too which would free up an A320 for elsewhere

Any pilot union worth their salt will have a scope agreement with the company which has very strict criteria on who can and can’t operate company flights.

Locker10a

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Appears to be a few rumours suggesting that BHD-FAO/AGP will be operated by ASL B733 to allow EI keep an extra A320 at DUB.

I always wondered why they didn’t do this for SNN-LHR, could be done the exact same as the 757s, aircraft owned by ASL, used by EI. The SNN based Crew already operate on the ASL 757, they could easily be extended to to the 737 too which would free up an A320 for elsewhere

Any pilot union worth their salt will have a scope agreement with the company which has very strict criteria on who can and can’t operate company flights.

I understood an agreement was in place that means a certain amount of EI pilots are used by ASL on secondment and operate the 757s. Couldn’t this be extended for a small 737 operation. Also cabin crew are kept in house too and are cross trained to ASL 757s

goingnowhere

757's have operated mainline EI services before, DUB-LGW

Jamie2k9

goingnowhere wrote: »

757's have operated mainline EI services before, DUB-LGW

No planned in advance.

Lapmo_Dancer

“[/quote]I understood an agreement was in place that means a certain amount of EI pilots are used by ASL on secondment and operate the 757s. Couldn’t this be extended for a small 737 operation. Also cabin crew are kept in house too and are cross trained to ASL 757s[/quote]”

I’m not sure of specifics but my understanding is that the 757 agreement has strict conditions on the maximum number of aircraft allowed and duration (must end in 2020 I think). The logic for the agreement was that it was a ‘stop-gap’ temporary arrangement to allow for the introduction of the 321LRs into the mainline fleet.

What would be the rationale for giving away a line of 320 flying?

Locker10a

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

“

I understood an agreement was in place that means a certain amount of EI pilots are used by ASL on secondment and operate the 757s. Couldn’t this be extended for a small 737 operation. Also cabin crew are kept in house too and are cross trained to ASL 757s[/quote]”

I’m not sure of specifics but my understanding is that the 757 agreement has strict conditions on the maximum number of aircraft allowed and duration (must end in 2020 I think). The logic for the agreement was that it was a ‘stop-gap’ temporary arrangement to allow for the introduction of the 321LRs into the mainline fleet.

What would be the rationale for giving away a line of 320 flying?[/quote]

Could be the same logic as the 757 agreement, a 737 could be added to the agreement and based in SNN for the next few years, operated by EI cabin crew and mixed pilots from EI and ASL as per current 757 ops. When the new A321s arrive they technically could do some mixed flying, after transatlantics one could do LHR rotations freeing up a short haul A320. And obviously the crewing and full operation of the A321neos would be in house. Just an idea if they wanted more A320s else where or better utilisation etc.

Jack1985

Sorry but this 737 talk re SNN is nonsense! Anyone in the know is aware theirs no flight deck (EI mainline) base at SNN so their is no urgency to re-deploy the stationed A320 there. EI pilots on secondment to ASL would certainly not be getting a rating on the 737 for clarification, and ASL definitely don't have enough of their own for a 737 in SNN. I myself have not heard the rumours with regard to BHD (no EI mainline flight deck their either anymore), but would be seriously surprised if that was allowed to go ahead.

Very easy for EI to source 320's which is at odds to long-haul, the ambition in EI these days for transatlantic routes its quite stunning, but they can't get the aircraft quick enough for long-haul demand hence the true rumors regarding QR.

Locker10a

Jack1985 wrote: »

Sorry but this 737 talk re SNN is nonsense! Anyone in the know is aware theirs no flight deck (EI mainline) base at SNN so their is no urgency to re-deploy the stationed A320 there. EI pilots on secondment to ASL would certainly not be getting a rating on the 737 for clarification, and ASL definitely don't have enough of their own for a 737 in SNN. I myself have not heard the rumours with regard to BHD (no EI mainline flight deck their either anymore), but would be seriously surprised if that was allowed to go ahead.

Very easy for EI to source 320's which is at odds to long-haul, the ambition in EI these days for transatlantic routes its quite stunning, but they can't get the aircraft quick enough for long-haul demand hence the true rumors regarding QR.

Fair enough, guess it’s just one of the annual rumours! Last year everyone was sure the SSJ would be operating for EI, I suppose this year it’s 737s with ASL, guess we will wait and see

cdsb46

I see YYZ is back to 757 in March, is this just a seasonal thing or are they downgrading permanently?

Tenger

cdsb46 wrote: »

I see YYZ is back to 757 in March, is this just a seasonal thing or are they downgrading permanently?

Probably due to A330's in their annual overhauls. (Thats usually mid-Jan up till early April)
Although it might stay as B757 i they need the A330 to operate SEA once it starts up.

Jack1985

Looks like a 330 to be stationed at SNN (peak summer - believed to be QR) to relieve a 757 for DUB as previously pointed out 3 are required in DUB.

Jamie2k9

Jack1985 wrote: »

Looks like a 330 to be stationed at SNN (peak summer - believed to be QR) to relieve a 757 for DUB as previously pointed out 3 are required in DUB.

It still doesn't solve the issue after peak summer, they will lose a packet outside peak summer at SNN and won't have enough narrow bodies. Unless they plan to upgrade PHL in Sep/Oct.

Tenger

Jack1985 wrote: »

Looks like a 330 to be stationed at SNN (peak summer - believed to be QR) to relieve a 757 for DUB as previously pointed out 3 are required in DUB.

That makes sense. I had heard the scuttlebutt about the QR hire-in. I was wondering how it would integrate with the existing A330 fleet and their various configs.
Makes sense to use it to upguage SNN ops. Its certainly a healthy sign for the SNN market.

john boye

Some relatively good news for TATL at SNN after the recent US3 downgrades/cancellations. I did wonder a while ago if there could be a case made for a 330 there during the summer, hopefully the numbers justify it.

JCX BXC

john boye wrote: »

Some relatively good news for TATL at SNN after the recent US3 downgrades/cancellations. I did wonder a while ago if there could be a case made for a 330 there during the summer, hopefully the numbers justify it.

American aren't downgrading.

goingnowhere

I imagine you are looking at SNN-BOS 6 per week as a A330?

Possibly with a aircraft swap between DUB and SNN at BOS to avoid positioning flights?

Shn99

john boye wrote: »

Some relatively good news for TATL at SNN after the recent US3 downgrades/cancellations. I did wonder a while ago if there could be a case made for a 330 there during the summer, hopefully the numbers justify it.

American increasing S18 seats by 7,000. Although not a US3 Norwegian are increasing SWF frequency too.

JCX BXC

goingnowhere wrote: »

I imagine you are looking at SNN-BOS 6 per week as a A330?

Possibly with a aircraft swap between DUB and SNN at BOS to avoid positioning flights?

Possibly, why 6pw as opposed to daily though?

john boye

JCX BXC wrote: »

American aren't downgrading.

Yeah sorry I knew that, I just threw them all in as the US3 out of habit!

goingnowhere

JCX BXC wrote: »

Possibly, why 6pw as opposed to daily though?

Maintenance, need time for A checks and recovery in the fleet if an aircraft goes tech or delayed down route. SNN-JFK does not operate on Tuesdays as a result

JCX BXC

goingnowhere wrote: »

Maintenance, need time for A checks and recovery in the fleet if an aircraft goes tech or delayed down route. SNN-JFK does not operate on Tuesdays as a result

That's understandable, but with such a big fleet of A330's is it needed or would it not be facilitated elsewhere.

Tenger

JCX BXC wrote: »

That's understandable, but with such a big fleet of A330's is it needed or would it not be facilitated elsewhere.

Might be safer to keep 6pw, as SNN fleet recovery would require an airframe to fly down and then back up after operating. QR interior may be quite different to EI so from a marketing POV easier to keep the odd one out at the single aircraft base.

But who knows really! :rolleyes:

JCX BXC

Fair enough, reasonable to have it at 6pw then. Was just interested as BOS is currently daily during the summer, however the A330 would most certainly make up for lost capacity.