The Vladimir Putin appreciation thread.

Guy:Incognito

Karl Stein wrote: »

I was half-expecting that when I posted the video. The source is the journalist. RT is merely a medium.

He's hardly going to be welcomed onto mainstream media outlets to educate their viewers that propaganda is not just an eastern phenomenon.

Nice try but no cigar.

Remember that when deriding the western media So.

Shurimgreat

dd972 wrote: »

He has hundreds of military bases all over the world, he invaded Iraq, destabilised Syria, created the conditions for ISIS, caused untold death and misery in Mexico and Central America,


..oh hang on, no he didn't

He has a huge naval base in Syria and advises Assad forces.

100% of Assads arms are Russian.

90% of ISIS arms are now Russian - AK47 great weapon altogether.

Supported Assad which ultimately ended up creating a failed state in Syria.

ShowMeTheCash

pcardin wrote: »

Were you born yesterday? Done to themselves? :eek: Read the history, talk to Ukrainians from that time that are still alive, if any. Cynicism learned from papa Putin?

It was 80 years ago I am making a distiction between domstic decisions that saw people starve and forign disputes where one nation went to war with another.

I see a difference in say the situation in WW2 and say how the brits walked into Tazmania on the other side of the globe and wiped them out!

Yurt2

Russia is held together with sticky tape. Being bellicose and appealing to Russia's sense of pride is, unfortunately valuable political currency in Russia. If you took away energy, Russia's economy is in atrocious shape. Putin is a bad egg, but like Assad he's ruling over a country that has no real tradition of democracy (democracy is a byword for corruption in Russia given their experiences in the 90's) and is just about pulling the levers to keep the country away from chaos. Unfortunately it looks like we're stuck with him for another decade or so with regular intervals of acting the a*shole to appeal to his Nationalist support base.

Vlad Dog Putin

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I know of one. Sadly even living in the west didn't save him.


Agreed about the rest though, there's a reason we haven't heard from them.

Maybe we are just too damn soft in the west!

SUSPECT KGB AGENT.
see problem?
"SUSPECT" he walter mitty, proof he KGB only in his mind.

Shurimgreat

Karl Stein wrote: »

I was half-expecting that when I posted the video. The source is the journalist. RT is merely a medium.

He's hardly going to be welcomed onto mainstream media outlets to educate their viewers that propaganda is not just an eastern phenomenon.




Nice try but no cigar.

I can continue this for as long you can.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/sara-firth-resigns-russia-today-lies-anchor_n_5598815.html

Russia Today's Liz Wahl also publicly criticized the network earlier this year. Wahl quit while on air, stating that she could not support a network that "whitewashes the actions of Putin" and asks her to "promote Russian foreign policy." In March, RT anchor Abby Martin used her air time to speak out against Russia's invasion of Ukraine, boldly stating that "what Russia did is wrong." The network did not fire her for speaking out, and Martin later told the AP, "I think that, honestly, it would look really bad if I got fired. I think they probably just weighed their options and just knew that keeping me on would be best."
UPDATE (9:52): Firth spoke to Press Gazette about the moments that led to her decision to leave. She described what it was like at the network on Thursday after news broke of the Malaysian Airlines plane crash in Ukraine, suspected to have been shot down by pro-Russian separatists.
“Yesterday when the story broke you get the kick in your stomach when you’re going to get the facts and it’s this huge story,” she said. “And I walked into the newsroom and they were running an eye-witness account of God-knows who the person was blaming the Ukrainian government, and it is such a volatile situation.”
Firth said that if she was "asked to burn the facts and not tell the truth" then she would "be a goner."
"And so I’m gone," she said, adding, "it's not a nice organisation either."

B_Wayne

Wait, so Guardian, Der Spiegel, El País etc all worked hard on Wikileaks and Snowden stories etc. Going by logic of posters above, they would never have dealt with them....

Shurimgreat

Vlad Dog Putin wrote: »

SUSPECT KGB AGENT.
see problem?
"SUSPECT" he walter mitty, proof he KGB only in his mind.

You know what. I don't put many people on ignore, but you are going to be one of them and for very good reasons. I can't prove you are woodrow wyatt re-invented, but I'm pretty confident of it!

Vlad Dog Putin

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Supported Assad which ultimately ended up creating a failed state in Syria.

HAHA, you funny guy.
Syria no fail state until USA make problem.

Karl Stein

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I can continue this for as long you can.

I gave you an alternative source. There are many many sources that aren't RT.

There is form too, check out Operation Mocking Bird.

As I said, no cigar for you.

Shurimgreat

B_Wayne wrote: »

Wait, so Guardian, Der Spiegel, El País etc all worked hard on Wikileaks and Snowden stories etc. Going by logic of posters above, they would never have dealt with them....

Agreed, they are basically talking nonsense.

Western media regularly, like every day, criticise their own governments. The odd time I watch Fox New, like 1 hour a month, its basically non stop Obama hating.
Contrast that to Russian media where its a 24/7 Putin love-in.

kidneyfan

Shurimgreat wrote: »

He has a huge naval base in Syria and advises Assad forces.

100% of Assads arms are Russian.

90% of ISIS arms are now Russian - AK47 great weapon altogether.

Supported Assad which ultimately ended up creating a failed state in Syria.

It was the USA and their allie Qatar who created a failed state in Syria.

Vlad Dog Putin

Yurt! wrote: »

Russia is held together with sticky tape. Being bellicose and appealing to Russia's sense of pride is, unfortunately valuable political currency in Russia. If you took away energy, Russia's economy is in atrocious shape.

The EU is held together with sticky tape, kiss USA ass is, unfortunately valuable political currency in the EU. If you took away Russian energy, the EU economy and society would be in atrocious shape.

Shurimgreat

Karl Stein wrote: »

I gave you an alternative source. There are many many sources that aren't RT.

There is form too, check out Operation Mocking Bird.

As I said. no cigar for you.

I won't be bothering. The CIA have next to no influence in modern media.

In fact most people get their news etc from online these days, there are thousands of resources, many of them based all over the world, most of them independent and the idea that the CIA controls every little newstation such as KYA downtown Kanses, or every internet news site is so far fetched that I don't even believe someone as gullible as you believes it.
I'd be more interested in your story about the moon landings by the way.

Shurimgreat

kidneyfan wrote: »

It was the USA and their allie Qatar who created a failed state in Syria.

Nothing to do with Assad? Of course not. Assad good, America bad. Yep, we've heard it before!

Karl Stein

Shurimgreat wrote: »

the idea that the CIA controls every little newstation such as KYA downtown Kanses, or every internet news site

Strawman.

I'd be more interested in your story about the moon landings by the way.

What story is that?

Shurimgreat

Karl Stein wrote: »

Strawman.



What story is that?

A man who says the CIA is behind what appears on the nightly news in America accuses me of being a strawman, oh the irony.

Karl Stein

Shurimgreat wrote: »

A man who says the CIA is behind what appears on the nightly news in America

Another strawman.

You're little more than a noisy empty vessel at this point.

What's this bullshit about moon landings you're attributing to me or did you bang your head this morning?

Shurimgreat

Karl Stein wrote: »

Another strawman.

You're little more than a noisy empty vessel at this point.

What's this bullshit about moon landings you're attributing to me or did you bang your head this morning?

Yeh I take back the moon landing stuff - some other poster referenced it. Just assumed you were one of those conspiracist peddlers that's all. Clearly the CIA running US media is just a once off conspiracy theory on your part. We can give you that one.

Karl Stein

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Just assumed you were one of those conspiracist peddlers that's all.

As you do.

Clearly the CIA running US media is just a once off conspiracy theory on your part.

Strawman 3. Yawn.

I'm simply highlighting that we in the west are subject to media propaganda too and denial of this is little more than denial of reality.

I just remembered this exchange with you.

Shurimgreat

Karl Stein wrote: »

As you do.



Strawman 3. Yawn.

I'm simply highlighting that we in the west are subject to media propaganda too and denial of this is little more than denial of reality.

Karl, you fall back into a routine of calling everyone a strawman when you don't agree with them. I've no interest in that kind of debate. Leave out the strawman bit and I'll try and engage. Leave out the CIA bull**** too and I'd be interested.

But when you spout crap like the CIA are running western media then I'm done with you.

And when you continue to peddle childish "russia good, west/US evil" type dichotomies I'm also done with you.

Ah right, just saw your edit there, clearly you're still in a huff about that. Maybe we should let you go off and cool down eh Karl?

Your choice.

Karl Stein

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Karl, you fall back into a routine of calling everyone a strawman when you don't agree with them.

I don't think you understand what a 'strawman' is. I don't like using the term, because it's kinda asrsey, but feel I have to when people continuously do it. A strawman is 'a sham argument set up to be defeated'.

Like below:

Shurimgreat wrote: »

the CIA controls every little newstation such as KYA downtown Kanses, or every internet news site

Shurimgreat wrote: »

A man who says the CIA is behind what appears on the nightly news in America

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Clearly the CIA running US media is just a once off conspiracy theory on your part.

the CIA are running western media then I'm done with you.

And when you continue to peddle childish "russia good, west/US evil" type dichotomies I'm also done with you.

The above are all arguments I didn't make or do not subscribe to - they are exaggerations and distortions of the point.

Western media is not immune from relaying propaganda. It's that simple.

fran17

Shurimgreat wrote: »

FFS, as part of the Minsk agreement, the pro Russian fighters agreed to pull back an ultra modern multiple rocket launcher that only the Russian state produces and owns. That's just one example of the help and support. You couldn't bury your head in the sand any deeper if you tried.

Hmmm yeah.I don't know if your familiar with it but there's this thing called the arms trade.Its where countries sell arms to other countries for profit.Its worth well over a trillion quid a year.

unfortunately

A few people here praising Putin because he's a "strong leader". Obviously, to everyone else who can see he is clearly building a nice little dictatorship for himself, changing presidential term limits, targeting groups in society as undesirables like LGBT people, controlling the media, building a personality cult, waging wars to increase fear and uncertainty. Yes, the West is doing terrible things but that doesn't mean Russia gets a free past, both sides shouldn't be doing that stuff.

Anyone who mentions "strong" leaders or leaders who "stand up" to some perceived enemy always sends alarm bells ringing in my head. People who agree with statements like this tend to be high on the Right-Wing Authoritarian scale (RWA scale), people who love authoritarian leaders and submitting to "legitimate" (in their eyes) authorities. When the leader says he will crush some group that "threatens" his country and he will need to increase his power to do so and reduce civil liberties the high RWAs are the first to jump up in support.

The research into these sorts of personalities has been done by Canadian academic Robert Altemeyer. You can download his book for free, The Authoritatians here:

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

You can also take the survey to see where you lie on the Right-Wing Authoritarian scale.

http://helloquizzy.okcupid.com/tests/the-altemeyer-authoritarian-test

floggg

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I think the reason these people are "loved" is because they bring a form of peace and stability and certainty that there wasn't before. Yes they are all brutal dictators but you know its safe to leave the keys in your front door or car, you know there's probably a job for life, your pensions will be secure and the trains will run on time. There's a lot to be said for fear I suppose.

Putin inherited a mess, as did Napolean, Stalin and a few others. They bring stability for a while. But its never fully sustainable. That and the fact they have propaganda on their side. No-one was going to say a bad word about Mao then or now.

Cromwell was notorious for punishing car thiefs.

Hence the siege of Limerick...

Shurimgreat

Karl Stein wrote: »

I don't think you understand what a 'strawman' is. I don't like using the term, because it's kinda asrsey, but feel I have to when people continuously do it. A strawman is 'a sham argument set up to defeated'.

Like below:


The above are all arguments I didn't make or do not subscribe to - they are exaggerations and distortions of the point.

Western media is not immune from relaying propaganda. It's that simple.

Wrong Karl - I tried to draw your attention to some nonsense you were spouting. You might view it as sham, I certainly don't.

You used Russia Today as a source, when I pull you up on stuff like that, then you retreat to your strawman accusations, its like your last line of defence or bunker or something. Yes I use certain means of debate or allegory, its got nothing to do with strawman type arguments, its trying to draw a comparison, and when you don't like it then you default to the strawman accusation.

The lowest ranked of western media in terms of reporters without borders press freedom is the US at 46th. Russia ranks 149th.

In terms of propaganda, western media is massively diverse with wide ownership, mostly private interests. Russian media has no such diversity. Its under a tight leash more or less from the Kremlin. I don't think you recognise the distinction. In other words, if you don't like the news channel in the west you can switch to another with a different angle. You don't really have that option in Russia. It's the same angle on every news program.

I will simplify it one more time - Western media is not under a tight leash from Langley. People are pretty much free to do as they please. Fox News is basically 24/7 Obama hating as an example.

Maintrean Russian media is by and large under a tight leash from the Kremlin.

You simply can't compare the two.

fran17

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The anti aircraft missile system came across the Russian border and went back across the following day. Is that enough for you? He supplies the weapons and most of the men too.

It's like an adult giving a loaded gun to a child and when the child kills a few people, saying "nothing to do with me".

Where are you getting your evidence for these accusations?And the news conference ramblings from that cardboard pc moron John Kerry don't count;)

A Primal Nut

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

He has to be one of the greatest leaders the world has ever known, not just a stuffed suit like his wooden American counterpart. His steadfast resolve in the face of a proxy war being waged in Ukraine has to be admired, a war that would never have happened if billions weren't poured into Ukraine to kickstart a coup.

Like him or loathe him there is no doubt that Vladimir Putin is a very shrewd operator who is consistently one step ahead of the game.

Not really given that the state of the economy - he must be fairly behind the game.

Shurimgreat

fran17 wrote: »

Hmmm yeah.I don't know if your familiar with it but there's this thing called the arms trade.Its where countries sell arms to other countries for profit.Its worth well over a trillion quid a year.

So who sold what to who in this case then? And if you say Russia sold the separatists one of the most modern pieces of arms in the world, I will simply laugh. Next you will be saying those little green men in Crimea weren't Russian!

Shurimgreat

fran17 wrote: »

Where are you getting your evidence for these accusations?And the news conference ramblings from that cardboard pc moron John Kerry don't count;)

Hard to take you seriously when you say things like this. Let me know when you are ready to discuss this like an adult.