Shooting in Demark

Sociopath2

Nodin wrote: »

It wasn't an attack by Islam en masse, hence the comment. Pointing out that over a billion people aren't responsible for an attack isn't being a "smart arse", its countering nonsense with sense. The real pity is that it's nessecary to do so.

Straight in with defending Islam, no mention of condemning the attack or any concern or sympathy for the victims.

No surprise there.

wretcheddomain

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Or expected them to integrate into society like everyone else.

It's too easy to point to a "few mad terrorists" responding to Western foreign policy. That's a cop-out attempt to blame the West, as usual.

What needs to be argued is not this type of cause - however valid it may or may not be - but rather, the cause for the inordinate expansion of Islamic extremism. This is where multiculturalism comes in.

With multiculturalism we have a system where each culture is deemed to be the master of their own fate - as other cultures apparently do not understand each other's culture.

This invariably leads to tension and barriers forming between different cultural and ethnic groups, even to the point where one group becomes, or feels, marginalised within multiculturalism i.e. Islam.

Muslims can, therefore, feel disenfranchised by society and are more likely to blame the West, thereby absorbing the extremist narrative - which is precisely what has happened.

In other words, we cannot blame multiculturalism as the sole factor for the rise of extremism but, at the same time, we cannot ignore it as one of the many factors which has led to yet more extremism.

bodice ripper

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Tell me more, yank.

nah, you are alright, xenophobe.

Venus In Furs

Boring username wrote: »

Well it's going to be another long night for our resident apologists who'll deny there is any problem with Islam.

There is a problem with islamic fundamentalism. A serious problem.
But why do people keep blaming all muslims for it? I mean, a lot of the victims of this fundamentalism are actually also muslims.

RobYourBuilder

Here's the cartoon - http://i.imgur.com/9Xv5GkT.jpg

Sociopath2

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Here's the cartoon drawn by the deceased, Lars Vilk - http://i.imgur.com/9Xv5GkT.jpg

Vilks was not hurt in the shooting. An unnamed civilians was killed.

Nodin

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Here's the cartoon drawn by the deceased, Lars Vilk - http://i.imgur.com/9Xv5GkT.jpg

He's not dead or injured.

Donkey Oaty

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Here's the cartoon drawn by the deceased, Lars Vilk - http://i.imgur.com/9Xv5GkT.jpg

Lars must be short for Lazarus, because he's made a full recovery.

bjork

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/11413226/Copenhagen-shooting-during-debate-on-Islam-live.html

Here's a run down of events from the telegraph

bjork

Venus In Furs wrote: »

There is a problem with islamic fundamentalism. A serious problem.
But why do people keep blaming all muslims for it? I mean, a lot of the victims of this fundamentalism are actually also muslims.

It's not a week since this

Vast crowd of British Muslims gather for Charlie Hebdo protest in London
Thousands met in Whitehall to condemn cartoons of Prophet Mohammed
Protesters hand petition signed by 100,000 British Muslims to Downing St
Group marched through London before stopping for communal prayers
Male and female protesters were kept separate 'out of respect' for women
They were met by counter protesters from far-right group Britain First
Last month's terrorist attack on Charlie Hebdo's offices left 12 people dead


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2944946/Thousands-British-Muslims-protest-against-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-publishing-cartoons-Prophet-Mohammed.html


They have more support in the wider community that you give credit for.

Zack Morris

Nodin wrote: »

It wasn't an attack by Islam en masse, hence the comment.

There is no such thing as "Islam en masse". It's an ideology, not a cohesive unit.

The problem is interpretations of Islam and the idiots whom think the savagery that Islam teaches should apply to the modern world. The EU's lax immigration policies allows these idiots in and shít like this happens; whereas, in America, where they have stricter immigration policies, incidents like this are not as common.

As long as Islam preaches savagery, incidents like this will always occur because there is no shortage of idiots in the Islamic world.

Nodin

Zack Morris wrote: »

There is no such thing as "Islam en masse". It's an ideology, not a cohesive unit.

The problem is interpretations of Islam and the idiots whom think the savagery that Islam teaches should apply to the modern world. The EU's lax immigration policies allows these idiots in and shít like this happens; whereas, in America, where they have stricter immigration policies, incidents like this are not as common.

As long as Islam preaches savagery, incidents like this will always occur because there is no shortage of idiots in the Islamic world.

Tbh, a lot of these people are young men born in the West who become radicalised.

K4t

Nodin wrote: »

It wasn't an attack by Islam en masse, hence the comment. Pointing out that over a billion people aren't responsible for an attack isn't being a "smart arse", its countering nonsense with sense.

Exactly. The truth is in your post. Neither Charlie Hebdo or this recent attack were an attack by Islam en masse as you say. They were attacks committed by individuals, potentially Islamic fundamentalists, and potentially to suppress criticism towards Islam.


The real crime against humanity in the aftermath of these attacks is not the actual murders (though they are awful) and it is not those blaming all Muslims and Islam itself (they're idiots). It is those who would attempt to silence and self censor criticism of Islam, and it is those who throw around the phrase Islamophobia at whoever attempts to engage in serious criticism of Islam. I was called a racist not long ago on this forum for saying; To hate Islam is Not to hate Muslims. We must not allow these individual attacks affect our own principles of western democracy and liberty. We must not feel any guilt for using events like this to engage in serious discussion and criticism of Islam. To do that is to do a disservice to ourselves and to Muslims.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7QxTzLCAAAKBoH.jpg Can someone embed this please?

BlaasForRafa

bjork wrote: »

They have more support in the wider community that you give credit for.

But you won't find a march of so many muslims out in sympathy for the charlie hebdo victims, they're more concerned for a perceived offense against their "prophet" who's been dead for 1400 or so years than they are about some dead kaffars.

bjork

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

But you won't find a march of so many muslims out in sympathy for the charlie hebdo victims, they're more concerned for a perceived offense against their "prophet" who's been dead for 1400 or so years than they are about some dead kaffars.

I was just reading this article which I found interesting. It is written on the 13 Jan and it's content is about Denmark has tackled radical Islam after the 2006 cartoon attacks there

"By early 2006, 200 people had been killed, Denmark’s embassies in Beirut and Damascus had been destroyed, and Danish, European and Christian organisations in Muslim countries had received threats. Then prime minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen called it Denmark’s worst crisis since the Second World War."...

"For every million Danish residents, 100 have joined Isis fighting in Syria or Iraq, a recent survey shows. Only Belgium has a larger share of foreign fighters. Yet there have been no more attacks on Danish targets at home or abroad. Denmark’s secret, which French authorities may want to study more closely, is the elevation of the humble social worker. “Denmark hasn’t been afraid to tackle the Islamic radicalism problem,” notes Magnus Ranstorp, a counterterrorism expert at the Swedish Defence College. “Around 2008, it began addressing Islamic radicalism-related crime through prevention work, creating the so-called SSP model where schools, social services and the police work together. What’s equally important is that government agencies on the state level work hand in hand with local authorities.”"

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/23/how-denmark-learnt-its-own-charlie-hebdo-moment-299065.html



It appears the softly softly social worker approach isn't all it's cracked up to be

Harry Palmr

War of civilisations is over-egging the pudding but its certainly become a long war against religious intolerance

Sociopath2

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

But you won't find a march of so many muslims out in sympathy for the charlie hebdo victims, they're more concerned for a perceived offense against their "prophet" who's been dead for 1400 or so years than they are about some dead kaffars.

Those particular Muslims and their apologists on here are more concerned with what someone drew or posted than people being murdered.

bjork

and the guy who started it all >> is sorry and admits he was wrong

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/11/danish-iman-cartoons-moha_n_3739574.html
A Danish Muslim leader who spearheaded the uproar over newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad now says he regrets the violence and believes the Jyllands-Posten was right to publish them.

Once the spokesman for the imans who travelled to Lebanon, Egypt and Syria to whip up anger against the newspaper and the Danish government, Ahmad Akkari turned a small cartoon strip into a diplomatic incident and a violent uprising.
"I want to be clear today about the trip: It was totally wrong," Akkari told The Associated Press this week. "At that time, I was so fascinated with this logical force in the Islamic mindset that I could not see the greater picture. I was convinced it was a fight for my faith, Islam."

cerastes

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Just more evidence of the incompatibility of enlightened society and the dogma preached by dark-age religions.

Why do I get the impression some posters support multiculturalism and a more PC liberal outlook? But seem to make exceptions when the failures of multiculturalism appear not to fit with their personal opinions?
Im certain that people have been shouted down in these forums when any failures of a section of society are pointed at or concerns raised that they will not deal with their problems.

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Pity Islam wasn't left back in the middle ages
where it belongs.

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Or expected them to integrate into society like everyone else.

I could be wrong but I'd have thought people coming to Europe did so to improve their lot, discontentment i think came later on and I think radicalised following generations.
Failure of unmanaged multiculturalism, ie the liberal agenda.

Donkey Oaty

A Danish Muslim leader who spearheaded the uproar over newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad now says he regrets the violence and believes the Jyllands-Posten was right to publish them.

That calls for a Carlsberg.

darkpagandeath

Can't we all just get along.

GalwayGuitar

Pretty soon attacks by Muslim extremists alienated minorities won't even make the news. What an exciting time to be alive.

reprise

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Those particular Muslims and their apologists on here are more concerned with what someone drew or posted than people being murdered.

Some of them more prone to paranoia and rage, are randomly attacking phantom critics of Muslims on threads that have nothing to do with Muslims.

bjork

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

That calls for a Carlsberg.

Now, Akkari has moved to teach at a school in Greenland, and has shaved off his beard.






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Akkari
In 2001 Ahmed Akkari was sentenced to 40 days in prison for beating an 11-year old schoolboy on 3 November 2000 because the boy had allegedly been bullying Akkari's little sister. The sentence was suspended because Akkari was a first-time offender. Akkari, who was studying to be a teacher at the time, was present that day at Muslim private school Lykkeskolen in Aarhus where he was working as an apprentice teacher. According to sources at the school quoted in Ekstra-Bladet, his 11-year-old sister was playing with a boy from her class and the boy accidentally pulled her headscarf off. Akkari sought out the boy, pulled his ear drawing blood, and threw him to the ground kicking him several times.[6][7][8]







Everyone should be calling for the trial of this guy for inciting hatred

Boring username

Venus In Furs wrote: »

There is a problem with islamic fundamentalism. A serious problem.
But why do people keep blaming all muslims for it? I mean, a lot of the victims of this fundamentalism are actually also muslims.

Islam =/= Muslims

the_monkey

Oh my God !!

We are very sorry to any offence caused to the beautifull religion of peace.

The real victims here are the Muslims.

Donkey Oaty

bjork wrote: »

Everyone should be calling for the trial of this guy for inciting hatred

No question about that - it is exactly what he did. People forget that the whole Danish cartoons thing was deliberately stirred up internationally by a group of Danish Muslims when their local protests were ignored.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkari-Laban_dossier

Vandango

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Islam versus Freedom - Episode 146

Ya, let's bury our heads in the sand and conveniently overlook American foreign policy for the last 35 years. Might be better to treat the disease as well as the symptoms.

K4t

bjork wrote: »

Everyone should be calling for the trial of this guy Islam for inciting hatred

Saying he is responsible is like saying Islam is responsible. People have to account for their own individual actions, while at the same time we should be free to criticise Islam without accusations of Islamophobia or racism towards Muslims.

BlaasForRafa

Vandango wrote: »

Ya, let's bury our heads in the sand and conveniently overlook American foreign policy for the last 35 years. Might be better to treat the disease as well as the symptoms.

So the americans forced these guys to attack the debate in Denmark did they?