Shooting in Demark

Voltex

Another attack on free speech by Islamic fundamentalists.

Its becoming clear that unless the Islamic community themselves take stronger action against the extremists the Islamic community at large will become more and more marginalised.

Sociopath2

Link?

Ruu

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0214/680246-danish-police-hurt-after-islam-debate-shooting/

One civilian was killed and three police were wounded in shooting at a public meeting on free speech in the Danish capital Copenhagen attended by controversial Swedish artist Lars Vilks.

Vilks has caused controversy in the past over cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad.

Danish police confirmed one civilian had been killed in a shooting and said the suspects had fled in a car.

Some reports said up to 40 shots were fired.

The Ritzau agency said both Vilks and the French ambassador, who was also attending, were both unharmed, but that three police had been wounded.

The gathering was billed as a debate on art and blasphemy.

Just over a month ago, 17 people were killed in France in three days of violence that began when two Islamist gunmen burst into the Paris offices of the satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo, opening fire in revenge for its publication of satirical images of the Prophet Mohammad.

Vilks stirred controversy in 2007 with published drawings depicting the Prophet Mohammad as a dog which sparked threats from Islamist militant groups.

He has received numerous death threats and has lived under constant protection by the Swedish police since 2010.

Two years ago, an American woman who called herself Jihad Jane was sentenced to 10 years in prison for plotting to kill him.

French President Francois Hollande said Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve would go to Copenhagen as soon as possible.

Ambassador Francois Zimeray said on Twitter that he was not harmed.

One police officer was reportedly wounded outside the building.

wretcheddomain

Islam versus Freedom - Episode 146

bjork

Saw there was a woman in a burka being held a gun point in the hague earlier, very dramatic altogether

BeerWolf

Multiculturalism + PC = suicide

nokia69

the religion of peace strikes again

why do we let these people live in Europe

bodice ripper

nokia69 wrote: »

the religion of peace strikes again

why do we let these people live in Europe

Quite possibly because they were born here.

Nodin

nokia69 wrote: »

the religion of peace strikes again

why do we let these people live in Europe

Because most of us left the notion of mass guilt behind in the middle ages.

Sociopath2

RIP

Given the recent events in Paris and Vilks history, security should have been much tighter.

Another display of why Islamic fundamentalism has no place in the modern world.

wretcheddomain

nokia69 wrote: »

the religion of peace strikes again

why do we let these people live in Europe

Multiculturalism has failed spectacularly.

What's required is controlled immigration of minorities, to facilitate interculturalism between different faiths.

This means everyone abiding under the same laws as everyone else, all the while not claiming any special treatment.

Until something akin to this takes place, we will continue to fight within the multicultural barriers that have been erected over the past couple of years.

Boring username

Now, if I were a betting man......

Amirani

Just more evidence of the incompatibility of enlightened society and the dogma preached by dark-age religions.

Sociopath2

Nodin wrote: »

Because most of us left the notion of mass guilt behind in the middle ages.

Pity Islam wasn't left back in the middle ages where it belongs.

Bears and Vodka

On a train to Copenhagen right now, last thing I wanted to read about when reading the news

RobYourBuilder

Islam. The gift that keeps on giving.

RobYourBuilder

bodice ripper wrote: »

Quite possibly because they were born here.

Lucky us.

RobYourBuilder

Nodin wrote: »

Because most of us left the notion of mass guilt behind in the middle ages.

You're a self admitted terrorist supporter.

Badly Drunk Boy

bodice ripper wrote: »

Quite possibly because they were born here.

...Because of colonialism, usually.

bodice ripper

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Islam Religion. The gift that keeps on giving.

.

bodice ripper

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

...Because of colonialism, usually.

Or because Europe needed some cheap labour, and expected people to leave when they were finished with them.

Voltex

..and lets not forget that Aussie police stopped a couple of lads carrying out an "attack" with a 2 foot machete. Probably not hard to imagine what the attack would have entailed.

RobYourBuilder

bodice ripper wrote: »

.

Tell me more, yank.

RobYourBuilder

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

...Because of colonialism, usually.

Where we not on the stickler of that?

Sociopath2

bodice ripper wrote: »

Or because Europe needed some cheap labour, and expected people to leave when they were finished with them.

Or expected them to integrate into society like everyone else.

Voltex

bodice ripper wrote: »

Or because Europe needed some cheap labour, and expected people to leave when they were finished with them.

Or because due to our way of life in the West with freedom, liberty and tolerance and the relatively s hite state of affairs generally within their home country they travel abroad to seek out a better life, better opportunities and freedom....then some of them go on a killing rampage because we are not like them!!:mad:

Snake Plisken

Nodin wrote: »

Because most of us left the notion of mass guilt behind in the middle ages.

Pity you can't come on to the thread and condemn another attack on freedom of speech by your favourite religion and instead post a smart arse comment!

Sociopath2

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Pity you can't come on to the thread and condemn another attack on freedom of speech by your favourite religion and instead post a smart arse comment!

You'd be hard pressed to ever find him condemn an attack or express sympathy for the victims. The terrorists and their community on the other hand....

RobYourBuilder

Krudttønden translates to powder keg, right? Can anyone speak Danish?

Boring username

Well it's going to be another long night for our resident apologists who'll deny there is any problem with Islam.

Nodin

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Pity you can't come on to the thread and condemn another attack on freedom of speech by your favourite religion and instead post a smart arse comment!

It wasn't an attack by Islam en masse, hence the comment. Pointing out that over a billion people aren't responsible for an attack isn't being a "smart arse", its countering nonsense with sense. The real pity is that it's nessecary to do so.

Sociopath2

Nodin wrote: »

It wasn't an attack by Islam en masse, hence the comment. Pointing out that over a billion people aren't responsible for an attack isn't being a "smart arse", its countering nonsense with sense. The real pity is that it's nessecary to do so.

Straight in with defending Islam, no mention of condemning the attack or any concern or sympathy for the victims.

No surprise there.

wretcheddomain

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Or expected them to integrate into society like everyone else.

It's too easy to point to a "few mad terrorists" responding to Western foreign policy. That's a cop-out attempt to blame the West, as usual.

What needs to be argued is not this type of cause - however valid it may or may not be - but rather, the cause for the inordinate expansion of Islamic extremism. This is where multiculturalism comes in.

With multiculturalism we have a system where each culture is deemed to be the master of their own fate - as other cultures apparently do not understand each other's culture.

This invariably leads to tension and barriers forming between different cultural and ethnic groups, even to the point where one group becomes, or feels, marginalised within multiculturalism i.e. Islam.

Muslims can, therefore, feel disenfranchised by society and are more likely to blame the West, thereby absorbing the extremist narrative - which is precisely what has happened.

In other words, we cannot blame multiculturalism as the sole factor for the rise of extremism but, at the same time, we cannot ignore it as one of the many factors which has led to yet more extremism.

bodice ripper

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Tell me more, yank.

nah, you are alright, xenophobe.

Venus In Furs

Boring username wrote: »

Well it's going to be another long night for our resident apologists who'll deny there is any problem with Islam.

There is a problem with islamic fundamentalism. A serious problem.
But why do people keep blaming all muslims for it? I mean, a lot of the victims of this fundamentalism are actually also muslims.

RobYourBuilder

Here's the cartoon - http://i.imgur.com/9Xv5GkT.jpg

Sociopath2

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Here's the cartoon drawn by the deceased, Lars Vilk - http://i.imgur.com/9Xv5GkT.jpg

Vilks was not hurt in the shooting. An unnamed civilians was killed.

Nodin

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Here's the cartoon drawn by the deceased, Lars Vilk - http://i.imgur.com/9Xv5GkT.jpg

He's not dead or injured.

Donkey Oaty

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Here's the cartoon drawn by the deceased, Lars Vilk - http://i.imgur.com/9Xv5GkT.jpg

Lars must be short for Lazarus, because he's made a full recovery.

bjork

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/11413226/Copenhagen-shooting-during-debate-on-Islam-live.html

Here's a run down of events from the telegraph

bjork

Venus In Furs wrote: »

There is a problem with islamic fundamentalism. A serious problem.
But why do people keep blaming all muslims for it? I mean, a lot of the victims of this fundamentalism are actually also muslims.

It's not a week since this

Vast crowd of British Muslims gather for Charlie Hebdo protest in London
Thousands met in Whitehall to condemn cartoons of Prophet Mohammed
Protesters hand petition signed by 100,000 British Muslims to Downing St
Group marched through London before stopping for communal prayers
Male and female protesters were kept separate 'out of respect' for women
They were met by counter protesters from far-right group Britain First
Last month's terrorist attack on Charlie Hebdo's offices left 12 people dead


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2944946/Thousands-British-Muslims-protest-against-Charlie-Hebdo-magazine-publishing-cartoons-Prophet-Mohammed.html


They have more support in the wider community that you give credit for.

Zack Morris

Nodin wrote: »

It wasn't an attack by Islam en masse, hence the comment.

There is no such thing as "Islam en masse". It's an ideology, not a cohesive unit.

The problem is interpretations of Islam and the idiots whom think the savagery that Islam teaches should apply to the modern world. The EU's lax immigration policies allows these idiots in and shít like this happens; whereas, in America, where they have stricter immigration policies, incidents like this are not as common.

As long as Islam preaches savagery, incidents like this will always occur because there is no shortage of idiots in the Islamic world.

Nodin

Zack Morris wrote: »

There is no such thing as "Islam en masse". It's an ideology, not a cohesive unit.

The problem is interpretations of Islam and the idiots whom think the savagery that Islam teaches should apply to the modern world. The EU's lax immigration policies allows these idiots in and shít like this happens; whereas, in America, where they have stricter immigration policies, incidents like this are not as common.

As long as Islam preaches savagery, incidents like this will always occur because there is no shortage of idiots in the Islamic world.

Tbh, a lot of these people are young men born in the West who become radicalised.

K4t

Nodin wrote: »

It wasn't an attack by Islam en masse, hence the comment. Pointing out that over a billion people aren't responsible for an attack isn't being a "smart arse", its countering nonsense with sense.

Exactly. The truth is in your post. Neither Charlie Hebdo or this recent attack were an attack by Islam en masse as you say. They were attacks committed by individuals, potentially Islamic fundamentalists, and potentially to suppress criticism towards Islam.


The real crime against humanity in the aftermath of these attacks is not the actual murders (though they are awful) and it is not those blaming all Muslims and Islam itself (they're idiots). It is those who would attempt to silence and self censor criticism of Islam, and it is those who throw around the phrase Islamophobia at whoever attempts to engage in serious criticism of Islam. I was called a racist not long ago on this forum for saying; To hate Islam is Not to hate Muslims. We must not allow these individual attacks affect our own principles of western democracy and liberty. We must not feel any guilt for using events like this to engage in serious discussion and criticism of Islam. To do that is to do a disservice to ourselves and to Muslims.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7QxTzLCAAAKBoH.jpg Can someone embed this please?

BlaasForRafa

bjork wrote: »

They have more support in the wider community that you give credit for.

But you won't find a march of so many muslims out in sympathy for the charlie hebdo victims, they're more concerned for a perceived offense against their "prophet" who's been dead for 1400 or so years than they are about some dead kaffars.

bjork

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

But you won't find a march of so many muslims out in sympathy for the charlie hebdo victims, they're more concerned for a perceived offense against their "prophet" who's been dead for 1400 or so years than they are about some dead kaffars.

I was just reading this article which I found interesting. It is written on the 13 Jan and it's content is about Denmark has tackled radical Islam after the 2006 cartoon attacks there

"By early 2006, 200 people had been killed, Denmark’s embassies in Beirut and Damascus had been destroyed, and Danish, European and Christian organisations in Muslim countries had received threats. Then prime minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen called it Denmark’s worst crisis since the Second World War."...

"For every million Danish residents, 100 have joined Isis fighting in Syria or Iraq, a recent survey shows. Only Belgium has a larger share of foreign fighters. Yet there have been no more attacks on Danish targets at home or abroad. Denmark’s secret, which French authorities may want to study more closely, is the elevation of the humble social worker. “Denmark hasn’t been afraid to tackle the Islamic radicalism problem,” notes Magnus Ranstorp, a counterterrorism expert at the Swedish Defence College. “Around 2008, it began addressing Islamic radicalism-related crime through prevention work, creating the so-called SSP model where schools, social services and the police work together. What’s equally important is that government agencies on the state level work hand in hand with local authorities.”"

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/23/how-denmark-learnt-its-own-charlie-hebdo-moment-299065.html



It appears the softly softly social worker approach isn't all it's cracked up to be

Harry Palmr

War of civilisations is over-egging the pudding but its certainly become a long war against religious intolerance

Sociopath2

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

But you won't find a march of so many muslims out in sympathy for the charlie hebdo victims, they're more concerned for a perceived offense against their "prophet" who's been dead for 1400 or so years than they are about some dead kaffars.

Those particular Muslims and their apologists on here are more concerned with what someone drew or posted than people being murdered.

bjork

and the guy who started it all >> is sorry and admits he was wrong

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/11/danish-iman-cartoons-moha_n_3739574.html
A Danish Muslim leader who spearheaded the uproar over newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad now says he regrets the violence and believes the Jyllands-Posten was right to publish them.

Once the spokesman for the imans who travelled to Lebanon, Egypt and Syria to whip up anger against the newspaper and the Danish government, Ahmad Akkari turned a small cartoon strip into a diplomatic incident and a violent uprising.
"I want to be clear today about the trip: It was totally wrong," Akkari told The Associated Press this week. "At that time, I was so fascinated with this logical force in the Islamic mindset that I could not see the greater picture. I was convinced it was a fight for my faith, Islam."

cerastes

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Just more evidence of the incompatibility of enlightened society and the dogma preached by dark-age religions.

Why do I get the impression some posters support multiculturalism and a more PC liberal outlook? But seem to make exceptions when the failures of multiculturalism appear not to fit with their personal opinions?
Im certain that people have been shouted down in these forums when any failures of a section of society are pointed at or concerns raised that they will not deal with their problems.

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Pity Islam wasn't left back in the middle ages
where it belongs.

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Or expected them to integrate into society like everyone else.

I could be wrong but I'd have thought people coming to Europe did so to improve their lot, discontentment i think came later on and I think radicalised following generations.
Failure of unmanaged multiculturalism, ie the liberal agenda.

Donkey Oaty

A Danish Muslim leader who spearheaded the uproar over newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad now says he regrets the violence and believes the Jyllands-Posten was right to publish them.

That calls for a Carlsberg.