dog attack on sheep, please always know where your dog is

betsie

report of an horrific dog attack on sheep in meath on the mirror (can't post the link but someone else might be able to) please, please always know where your dog is......i know I'm probably preaching to the converted here but no harm keeping up the awareness.

Kovu

Here's the link.

Not for the faint hearted, there are graphic images. But I'll echo the statement above, please keep your dogs on a lead when out walking/secured at the house and report loose dogs if you see them.There are too many of these tragic instances every year and they cause major grief for the sheep, not to mention the farmers who come upon their stock in this state.

Graces7

Kovu wrote: »

Here's the link.

Not for the faint hearted, there are graphic images. But I'll echo the statement above, please keep your dogs on a lead when out walking/secured at the house and report loose dogs if you see them.There are too many of these tragic instances every year and they cause major grief for the sheep, not to mention the farmers who come upon their stock in this state.

Thanks for the warning; no intention of opening the link...When I moved up here surrounded by grazing fields, I checked with the landlord that his fences were sound and he checked that my dogs are under my control. He lives some mile away and in fact will not graze sheep up here after a small pack of dogs wreaked havoc to in lamb ewes. Horrific the way he described it.

DBB

Sweet mother of Devine
That is utterly sickening.
My OH met a farmer not 20 miles from Dunderry last weekend who also had a dog attack on his sheep last week, he lost 20+ ewes and lambs. One ewe was found days later FOUR MILES away in a kid's playhouse in someone's garden, terrified.
In that case, the guards told the owners to get the dogs pts, but you know, this just isn't good enough. The owner should have to compensate the farmer every bloody time, not just have the dog destroyed/removed. The sort of person who deliberately allows their dog out and about is not going to find their dog's death punitive enough... And why should the farmer be at a loss? Nothing can compensate him or his stock for the emotional devastation.
I would be heartbroken if I lost stock like that, and I'd be heartbroken if my dog caused such devastation. But the message just doesn't seem to be getting through to the people it needs to get through to. Time to hit them where it hurts.

Knine

Terrible. I have several people ask for a dog from me who had no intention of keeping them contained. Not a hope in hell.

The problem I have is that on the link I read the FAI has demanded to put an extra charge on dog food to cover sheep loss causes. Why the hell should responsible dog owners have to pay?

DBB

Knine wrote: »

The problem I have is that on the link I read the FAI has demanded to put an extra charge on dog food to cover sheep loss causes. Why the hell should responsible dog owners have to pay?

Talk about not placing any responsibility at the feet of the owners, huh? Ah what do I care if my dog savages someone else's sheep? The schmoes will pay for it!
It'll never happen... The FAI should put their might behind something more achievable, such as prosecuting the owners of dogs found straying, and proper enforcement of the incoming microchipping laws.

Knine

Yes absolutely. I can't link as I am using my phone. The problem with microchipping is that some new owners don't bother changing or registering the details.

I have heard that the IKC are insisting the change of ownership is done by the breeder. More revenue for them I guess as many new owners don't bother.

Unfortunately the people who allow their dogs to wander just don't care what they are doing.

borderlinemeath

Saw that article in the independent last night, horrific.

I've said it before but I think a lot of people who think that using a radio/electric fence collar for the secure containment of their dogs are partly to blame. Most are people who live rurally or who feel they have too big an area to fence off so take the easy option of the radio fence and think all is well. I'd put money on that a lot of dog attacks are by dogs that are escaping from their "secure" gardens without the knowledge of their owners.

There's a flock of sheep across the road from me, if my garden wasn't securely fenced in, who knows what might happen. Benson is a barker and that alone would be enough for ewes to abort lambs if he got into the field and started running. It doesn't bear thinking about.

ganmo

For too long articles like this have been passed off as 'farming news' so is put into farming sections. Unfortunately farmers know about this kind of damage so I'm glad that it's made it into the more mainstream papers.

Why not look at the images? Then you will be know just what dogs are capable of. There are far too many 'innocent' dog owners and not enough responsible ones.

Personally I'm applying for a gun licence for the main aim of shooting dogs...it's not something I look forward to doing.
There are assholes up here that just don't give a sh*t about other animals.

The IFA estimated that there was 4000 sheep killed last year by dog attacks
Probably 3 times that injured so that'd be 16000 sheep affected by dogs...sobering isn't it

Ps its IFA not the football one
...rant over...for now

mosi

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I've said it before but I think a lot of people who think that using a radio/electric fence collar for the secure containment of their dogs are partly to blame. Most are people who live rurally or who feel they have too big an area to fence off so take the easy option of the radio fence and think all is well. I'd put money on that a lot of dog attacks are by dogs that are escaping from their "secure" gardens without the knowledge of their owners.

My parents have neighbours who have had multiple dogs killed on the road due to using a radio fence system. Members of the same family, in another neighbouring property, just allow their dogs to roam with no effort to contain them. One was recently killed on the road, while the neighbour told my father that the other one likes to go and chase deer in the nearby forest...it doesn't take a genius to work out that this dog is probably just as likely to chase sheep, given the opportunity.

What makes all of this even worse is that this family were sheep farmers for years.

Stepping Stone

There needs to be more awareness of this. I work with someone who has a dog and is normally a very responsible owner. Every weekend they take their dog to climb a hill or mountain and told me Monday that the dog had a great time playing with sheep, chasing them around. It is only a matter of time before the dog is shot or put down if they keep it up.

I pointed out that it is stressful for the sheep and it is lambing season. As a result, she has accused me of being heartless and cruel and isn't speaking to me. I grew up around sheep farms and we had dogs. The dogs were free to wander the garden (fenced) and the beach when they were taken there in the winter within reason.

borderlinemeath

mosi wrote: »

My parents have neighbours who have had multiple dogs killed on the road due to using a radio fence system. Members of the same family, in another neighbouring property, just allow their dogs to roam with no effort to contain them. One was recently killed on the road, while the neighbour told my father that the other one likes to go and chase deer in the nearby forest...it doesn't take a genius to work out that this dog is probably just as likely to chase sheep, given the opportunity.

What makes all of this even worse is that this family were sheep farmers for years.

Sometimes farmers can be the worst culprits. There's one down the road that lets his dog out roaming, I think they're dairy rather than sheep farmers and I know that they don't get on with the farmer who lives across the road from me, as he would have a long standing reputation for not putting up with dogs roaming on his land and will shoot them. I'd say the dairy farmer has lost a few dogs in the past, and with good reason.

DBB

Stepping Stone wrote: »

There needs to be more awareness of this. I work with someone who has a dog and is normally a very responsible owner. Every weekend they take their dog to climb a hill or mountain and told me Monday that the dog had a great time playing with sheep, chasing them around. It is only a matter of time before the dog is shyot or put down if they keep it up.

I pointed out that it is stressful for the sheep and it is lambing season. As a result, she has accused me of being heartless and cruel and isn't speaking to me.

Bloody. Hell.
How can people be so.... Thick?
I sometimes wonder how some people have survived to this point with so little cop on!

ganmo

DBB wrote: »

Bloody. Hell.
How can people be so.... Thick?
I sometimes wonder how some people have survived to this point with so little cop on!

I'm really curious if they're my sheep, tell the friend there'll be a boom stick waiting for her dog

Esterhase

It was horrible reading the article and the pictures are pretty grim but I think it's important to spread this kind of news as much as possible if it leads to owners becoming more responsible about letting their pets roam the countryside.

You were dead right to make that comment to your friend Stepping Stone, no matter how sulky she is now. I bet when a farmer comes along and shoots at the dog he'll be classed as heartless and cruel as well. 'Sure the innocent little doggie was only playing chase with those sheep, not biting at them' :rolleyes: Pure ignorance.

ACD

Poor lambs and poor farmer... The lack of responsibility of some dog owners is unbelievable.

Bit off topic, but just out of curiosity. In our country we still have wolfs, bears and also stray dogs etc. and with every flock of sheep there are dogs to protect them. They live amongst the sheep and get fed by the farmer, but that's pretty much it. Their sole purpose is to guard and protect the sheep from attacks. Breeds like Anatolian Shepherd or Slovak Cuvac would be popular. Just makes me wonder do Irish farmers use dogs for this purpose? If not, is there any reason as to why not? While it may not solve the problem completely, I'd think it might help at least?

DBB

It is an interesting thing ACD, I guess it's a cultural difference, as livestock guarding dogs have been used for centuries by shepherds in Europe.
By all accounts they are remarkably effective.
There's some really interesting research into livestock guarding breeds and their socialisation period in early puppyhood. The pups are raised with sheep from the day they're born, and selective breeding has snipped out the bit where puppies learn to chase prey/smaller animals. However, occasionally it appears in the odd pup... The minute the shepherd sees it, he separates the pup immediately from the herd for a week or two, until this stage of their behavioural development has passed: if they don't learn to do it at this stage, they'll not do it as adults.
Now, this has all been discovered via research, but what I love is that he shepherds have known about it for all time, and used it to their advantage.:)
The research was carried out by the very wonderful Prof Ray Coppinger who developed livestock guarding breed programs for American shepherds.
As it happens, Coppinger is coming over to Ireland in June to give a day's lectures on this and other doggy topics... Maybe he'll sow a seed whilst he's here!

ganmo

Another attack this area today...
1dead + many more in need of vet attention

deise08

I remember when there used to be ad campaigns on tv about dog attacks, sheep dips, overhanging electricity lines etc.
Never see anything like that now!
I don't know who used to fund them, but maybe the agri dept?

The one i remember used to be a cartoon, maybe a more up to date one could be shown, financed.?

tk123

deise08 wrote: »

I remember when there used to be ad campaigns on tv about dog attacks, sheep dips, overhanging electricity lines etc.
Never see anything like that now!
I don't know who used to fund them, but maybe the agri dept?

The one i remember used to be a cartoon, maybe a more up to date one could be shown, financed.?

I posted it a while back in another thread :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIh0kMPdlUc

ganmo

deise08 wrote: »

I remember when there used to be ad campaigns on tv about dog attacks, sheep dips, overhanging electricity lines etc.
Never see anything like that now!
I don't know who used to fund them, but maybe the agri dept?

The one i remember used to be a cartoon, maybe a more up to date one could be shown, financed.?

dog control is dept of environment responsibility so I assume they'd have to be the ones footing the bill

ganmo

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/warning-graphic-pics-eight-pedigree-sheep-killed-in-dog-attack-in-cork/
and again...

tk123

ganmo wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/warning-graphic-pics-eight-pedigree-sheep-killed-in-dog-attack-in-cork/
and again...

I can't understand how this happens. Are they local dogs with clueless owners or (equally clueless) people down on holidays who aren't being careful? I'd never take a risk of my dogs doing something like this if I was near a farm/sheep?

ganmo

the thing that I keep getting told by dog owners is that "my dog wouldn't harm a fly"(or similar) until that changes dogs will keep attacking stock.

I have even heard ppl say 'ah would ya look he's chasing them' when their dog was running around after sheep which leads to sheep jumping into rivers and drowning etc

tk123

ganmo wrote: »

I have even heard ppl say 'ah would ya look he's chasing them' when their dog was running around after sheep which leads to sheep jumping into rivers and drowning etc

That's terrible

YurOK2

My dogs are always under my control, never allowed outside without supervision from either myself or my husband, and that's for their own protection as much as everyone else's. I always feel devastated when I see a dog roaming around on their own, have they been dumped?, is this their house?, where do they live?, what if they get hit by a car? I just hate seeing it.
I live on a farm and did so throughout my childhood so I know how expensive it can get when a dog attacks.
Maybe microchips should be linked up with the dog's insurance policy so if the dog is caught, they can be scanned and a claim made through the insurance company? I know not all dogs are insured and I know that would only be a drop in the ocean with regard to sorting this problem but there's surely some action that can be taken to protect farmers.

On the topic of shock collars and radio fences etc. As I said, we live on a farm and the farm land is fenced with electric fences, obviously there's entry ways to walk through etc but one of my dogs was chasing a bird and ran into one of the electric fences, his tail tipped the fence as he was running through and he got a shock, he got a terrible fright but ever since then, and this happened about a year ago, he won't go near that particular part of that field so I'd be concerned about the effectiveness of a radio fence if a dog ran through would they be afraid to come back through? I don't like them anyway because I think there are far more effective ways of containing your pets and punishing them doesn't sound right to me.

ganmo

Dogs attacks are covered by most house insurance policy's so no point in linking it to pet insurance as I'd say more ppl have house insurance than pet insurance

Cows Go µ

Plus, the people who let their dogs roam aren't exactly going to be ones who get pet insurance

YurOK2

I'm talking about in terms of making a claim as easily as possible, farmer catches dog and brings dog to vet, vet scans dog, scan provides all the information the farmer needs to access compensation without having to get into a big battle with the dog owner to put a claim through their house insurance.

And as I said

I know not all dogs are insured and I know that would only be a drop in the ocean with regard to sorting this problem but there's surely some action that can be taken to protect farmers.

ganmo

YurOK2 wrote: »

I'm talking about in terms of making a claim as easily as possible, farmer catches dog and brings dog to vet, vet scans dog, scan provides all the information the farmer needs to access compensation without having to get into a big battle with the dog owner to put a claim through their house insurance.

And as I said

the proper way of going about it is catch/kill dog inform garda/dog warden. put up dog found posters + proof of ownership required, arrange to meet the owner with the garda to start prosecution. Judge may order the dog owner to pay the farmer. after that insurance.
one case pending with us

ganmo

theres another article on agriland.ie of a calf with the skin torn off its hind leg.

a question to those of you who have dogs from rescues, did they inform you of your responsibilities around livestock?

muddypaws

ganmo wrote: »

theres another article on agriland.ie of a calf with the skin torn off its hind leg.

a question to those of you who have dogs from rescues, did they inform you of your responsibilities around livestock?

Any rescues I know will only rehome to people with secure gardens, and not to people who allow dogs to roam.

Why have you only asked the question from a rescue point of view? What about people who buy from breeders?

ganmo

muddypaws wrote: »

Any rescues I know will only rehome to people with secure gardens, and not to people who allow dogs to roam.

Why have you only asked the question from a rescue point of view? What about people who buy from breeders?

because recently the dog trouble I've had has been from 'rescue' dogs
Rescues are the ones putting themselves out there as having the best interest of the dog at heart, but if they don't tell the future owners that their dog might attack sheep + other livestock if left loose they are really letting the dogs down

breeders don't claim to be educators of dog owners

So that would be a no, they don't say that a farmer can shoot any dog that is worrying stock

Joeseph Balls

ganmo wrote: »

because recently the dog trouble I've had has been from 'rescue' dogs
Rescues are the ones putting themselves out there as having the best interest of the dog at heart, but if they don't tell the future owners that their dog might attack sheep + other livestock if left loose they are really letting the dogs down

breeders don't claim to be educators of dog owners

So that would be a no, they don't say that a farmer can shoot any dog that is worrying stock

That could be someone just as easily trying to pass the buck either.

muddypaws

ganmo wrote: »

because recently the dog trouble I've had has been from 'rescue' dogs
Rescues are the ones putting themselves out there as having the best interest of the dog at heart, but if they don't tell the future owners that their dog might attack sheep + other livestock if left loose they are really letting the dogs down

breeders don't claim to be educators of dog owners

So that would be a no, they don't say that a farmer can shoot any dog that is worrying stock

Reputable breeders also have the best interest of the dog at heart, and yes, good ones do educate people about dogs.

Not sure how you got 'that would be a no, they don't say that a farmer can shoot any dog etc' from my answer, but you have an agenda, so no matter what I or other posters say, you're going to say the opposite.

A particular rescue doesn't rehome to anyone without a secure garden. They don't rehome to someone who uses an electric fence to contain a dog, as they are unreliable. They don't rehome particular breeds to someone who will allow the dog off lead, yet according to your logic, they are failing in their duty unless they specifically say 'the dog may be shot by a farmer'?

ganmo

muddypaws wrote: »

Reputable breeders also have the best interest of the dog at heart, and yes, good ones do educate people about dogs.

Not sure how you got 'that would be a no, they don't say that a farmer can shoot any dog etc' from my answer, but you have an agenda, so no matter what I or other posters say, you're going to say the opposite.

A particular rescue doesn't rehome to anyone without a secure garden. They don't rehome to someone who uses an electric fence to contain a dog, as they are unreliable. They don't rehome particular breeds to someone who will allow the dog off lead, yet according to your logic, they are failing in their duty unless they specifically say 'the dog may be shot by a farmer'?

Yes I have an agenda, to try and stop dogs attacking livestock. That's hardly a bad thing is it?

My question was to see if there would be any point in contacting these high profile rescues to see if they can change their new owner orientation to inform these new dog owners of their full responsibility to their new dog.

Did you read that article about the calf?

I know another farmer who lost about 29 sheep last year and other farmers have lost sheep due to dog attacks

There would have been attacks, but this is the first time on a calf.

It happens so often that it's just another hardship of sheep farming. I challenge you to find a sheep farmer who has never had dog trouble, I haven't been able to

borderlinemeath

ganmo wrote: »

Yes I have an agenda, to try and stop dogs attacking livestock. That's hardly a bad thing is it?

My question was to see if there would be any point in contacting these high profile rescues to see if they can change their new owner orientation to inform these new dog owners of their full responsibility to their new dog.

Did you read that article about the calf?



It happens so often that it's just another hardship of sheep farming. I challenge you to find a sheep farmer who has never had dog trouble, I haven't been able to

I think Muddypaws was pointing out that the reputable rescues will have a strict rehoming criteria, including a homecheck to ensure that the dogs garden is going to be secure against escape for many reasons, RTAs, dog attacks, and livestock attacks. Every rehoming is done on a case by case basis, and some of the larger rescues tend to be less flexible in their approach. That's not to say that smaller rescues will rehome to people who don't have secure enclosures, they won't, but there's lots of less reputable places that masquerade as "rescues" that don't homecheck and will hand out a dog to the first person with the rehoming fee. There's one close to me that never homecheck, or even vaccinate or microchip but it's on their website that the dogs are vacc'ed and chipped. They've even rehomed a couple of dogs that I know of that were in pup, that's how slapdash they are. These type of rescues are all over the place, so targeting "rescues" because the owners are irresponsible isn't going to amount to much.

Also anybody can walk into a pound and rehome a dog, neutered, unneutered (more chance of roaming), unvaccinated and not chipped, and a lot of people will also call these "rescue dogs" because technically they rescued them from the pound, but not a rescue. People who work in most pounds tend to be council employees who wouldn't have the first clue about responsible ownership or good animal husbandry.

muddypaws

ganmo wrote: »

Yes I have an agenda, to try and stop dogs attacking livestock. That's hardly a bad thing is it?

My question was to see if there would be any point in contacting these high profile rescues to see if they can change their new owner orientation to inform these new dog owners of their full responsibility to their new dog.

Did you read that article about the calf?



It happens so often that it's just another hardship of sheep farming. I challenge you to find a sheep farmer who has never had dog trouble, I haven't been able to

Your agenda seems to me, to be anti all dogs and dog owners. Do you ever read the threads in here? The vast majority of people posting in API are responsible dog owners, who are well aware of the laws and stick to them.

Why would you issue me with such a challenge? When have I ever said its not a problem? I spent over €20,000 on fencing to keep my dogs contained, I walk them on two leads every time we go out, why? Because of their breed, and the fact that we are now surrounded by sheep. Yet you still seem intent to provoke an argument with me. Should I go and start a fight in the farming forum about how irresponsible all farmers are, because my neighbour allowed two horses to wander and come into my field a couple of weeks ago? Or how about the other farmer who moved his cattle without sufficient supervision, and they ended up galloping down my lane out of control, thankfully my young son had come into the house from playing out there only about 10 minutes earlier. Are all farmers informed of their responsibilities when they buy livestock from the mart, or from another farmer?

Unfortunately accidents can happen, dogs can get out even from the best owners, and in those circumstances, you would expect the owner to cover the loss incurred by the farmer, with no arguments. Irresponsible dog owners won't care where their dog is and what it is getting up to, but the chances of finding those owners in this forum are incredibly slim.

ganmo

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dog-attack-on-wicklow-sheep-farm/

And again
Owner willing to put down one of the dogs but not the other...strange

DBB

Just to note, the photo with that article is not from that attack.
I find it very odd that the warden discussed what the judge may or may not do in this case, in such a public forum.

ganmo

DBB wrote: »

Just to note, the photo with that article is not from that attack.
I find it very odd that the warden discussed what the judge may or may not do in this case, in such a public forum.

My reading of it is that it hasn't reached the courts yet. And the warden is stating that if the owners don't cooperate a judge will have to be the one to make the decision which is just stating the law

But as one of the dogs is a restricted breed the owners are(should be) in deep water anyway

DBB

They might get an extra fine for not obeying the restricted breeds legislation, amounting to a couple of hundred quid at most.
The punishment for worrying livestock bears no relation to the breed, so I wouldn't be too convinced they'll be in significantly more trouble just because one of the dogs is an RB.

ganmo

i know its separate charges, i thought uncontrolled rb is up to 2,000,
worrying livestock is a criminal conviction

ganmo

Another nasty one in Westmeath... Great Dane and a newfi. 17 dead sheep and more MIA

andreac

ganmo wrote: »

Another nasty one in Westmeath... Great Dane and a newfi. 17 dead sheep and more MIA

Oh no. How awful. Those poor sheep.

Kovu

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/bad-dog-on-the-run-in-leitrim-188353/

This bollocks is causing havoc around here. Last count was over 50 killed :mad:

ganmo

And again...
http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/warning-graphic-pics-dog-attack-on-pedigree-sheep-flock-costs-farmer-e3500/

a big and a small

ganmo

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/15-ewes-savaged-by-dogs-in-wicklow-199585/

http://www.wicklownews.net/2016/02/concern-at-dog-attacks-on-sheep-during-lambing-season/

Similar area doesn't look like the same incident though.

In the Wicklow town region we’ve seen 12 to 15 attacks in the last seven months.

edit: it actually is the same farm

ganmo

numerous articles in the farming press about dog attacks in the last few weeks

including over 100 killed in england

I've asked ppl walking their dogs on the track near us to put their dog on the lead and have been told the regular response..."my dog..." such ignorance is maddening

ganmo

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/quarter-of-flock-wiped-out-in-dog-attack-240786

5dead, 6 going to be put down

all pregnant

ganmo

had to shoot a dog yday