The Tiger Woods Thread

davo10

So Tiger posted the worst 36 hole score of his career to follow on from the horror showing that was his Hero event before Chistmas. The US papers say it is a sad sight to see the great man/golfer reduced to playing like a 12 handicapper.

I'm conflicted because on the one hand, I'd like to see him go head-to-head with Rory, I think he brought golf to a new and thrilling level, viewing is less exciting when he's not in contention, I'm not sure that the young players like Reed/Speith/fowler can "step up" yet. But on the other hand I think he's a surly, bad mannered, self indulgent creep and I would hate to see him break Jack's record.

simpson80

completely agree. when he was at his peak it was amazing to watch how he dominated the game. Rory is a top golfer to watch but the excitement isn't the same. but on the other hand tiger has a bad side and it is sad to see the difference in his game over the past few years. him and Rory on top form would be great watching all year

SevesThreeIron

I miss watching the Tiger of old too. Some of the stuff he was doing in 08, the putts he drained when beating Mediate that year, amazing. Or the chip in at the Masters against Di Marco etc. I do think Rory is getting close to that level. Probably just isn't as much exciting stuff from Rory as his FIR is so good that he plays the game a bit more straight forward.

As a person, Tiger seems an arse alrite but I'd say there's plenty more behind him. Like Bubba seems genuinely insufferable, D Clarke the same, Garcia....I just like watching them and leave it at that.

So on the Tiger issue, I'd love to see him get to 19 majors, just to say I seen history. He'd still be a tool tho, with his Simon Cowell high trousers!

Mushy

When I read about his collapse this weekend I did feel a tinge of sadness. Hope he can recover to some extent, he was some player to watch back in the day.

slave1

Short and sweet from Tiger's Twitter feed...

"Disappointed, but really appreciate the incredible support this week."

the lawman

I can understand he divides opinion but I'm 100% in his camp. It hurts to see him struggle and when he's on top of a leaderboard I'm hoping he smashes it. I don't care what he's like as a person as its not really my business.

What I do know is we've lived and played golf in the Tiger era, a man who will be remembered as being one of the best ever. I hope he gets to 20.

Tilikum

the lawman wrote: »

I can understand he divides opinion but I'm 100% in his camp. It hurts to see him struggle and when he's on top of a leaderboard I'm hoping he smashes it. I don't care what he's like as a person as its not really my business.

What I do know is we've lived and played golf in the Tiger era, a man who will be remembered as being one of the best ever. I hope he gets to 20.

The best ever in my opinion. Totally changed the game. He was incredible. When I started playing nearly 20yrs ago I was slated by all my mates. Now every single one of them play.

Boskowski

I always liked Tiger. In fact I had to think a moment whether I was going to write 'liked' or 'loved'.:o I took up the game partly because of him. Golf owes him big time (not because of me starting to play obviously )

I know, say nothing. Its a bit sad for a grown man like myself, but I can't help it. I'm a fanboy.

I don't even mind his antics. I wouldn't aspire to some of the off course stuff he did myself, but I like the fact he's not a polished standard boy. I like it when people have a bit of a capricious or even slightly dangerous edge to them.

I miss him. Watching him now I'm worried he will be never be the same at all. I know he will probably never dominate as he did, but right now I'm worried that he may actually pack it in if he can't turn it around this year.

stanley1

Hope I'm wrong but can't see him ever winning another major.

dan_ep82

I don't think the media is giving him enough time, that being said I think a few smaller tournaments would give him a chance to get it back together with less of a media spotlight.

A bit random but I'd love to see him back at Titleist, even when I wasn't interested in golf I'd watch him on the TV and for a long time it was the only golf brand I knew.

FixdePitchmark

Big Tiger fan. Favourite golfer ever, not person. I know people say that is not part of it.
But that is bull**** - you can be a great sportsman and a great person. Then people say it is none of our business - it isn't , but it is Tiger who presented himself as something he wasn't. He was a fake.

I love being around to see the greats - as your Dad or older brothers would go on about old Footballers or sports stars, Pele - Best - Eusebio or go on about Ali or Nicklaus or Watson, we seen the end bit of Seve.

We have been lucky the last few years to be around to see Nadal and Federer and Messi and we seen a bit of Maradona, The Spanish Football team or to watch Ronnie O'sullivan play. Shefflin was great to see too.

A big disappointment was Armstrong as we know that was a bag of **** - but got great pleasure watching him in all naivety.

Was at an Olympics too and has been great to be around for Bolt and to be around to see Haile Gebrselassi or to see Phelps get his 8 golds and see him swim , even if only on tv.

Not a rugby fan but loved watching Lomu and Mccaw and got a great buzz watching BOD and Paul O'Connell over their full career.

You could go on a bit in different sports.

But, it is the pleasure of being there watching it live, perhaps we think our own experiences are the most important as the generation before think of their time.

But - to actually make a point. You knew without doubt, without any doubt what Tiger was doing was bizarre, ground breaking, history writing. All the clichés. You knew you were watching the best ever in the moment. Without getting into the major debate. It was the physical aspect you were watching. Power, speed, control. Was also a pleasure to see a guy who wanted to win every time. Irrespective of money or event. At the time you knew people in the future will look back. Luckily now, we have tv - HD and almost too much documented and recorded. So people can look back in a different way.
It is difficult when just looking back to get a sense of the global golf revolution Tiger created.
He not just brought golf into mainstream - he transcended race and social divide. He even was part of the computer game generation - kids played his game , without ever holding a club. There was global marketing of golf and Tiger was the number 1 player in this. He was the face, image and modernisation of golf.

So after all that, he never had a real life, he was a manufactured golfer in a way . He never had a great personality, never made the same mistakes as everyone else. It was a very strange life for anyone to have.

His brand was "I'm Tiger Woods". But not sure, Tiger himself or anyone ever got to know who was Tiger Woods. I hope he finds that for himself and has a happier life - he clearly hasn't been happy for a long time.

I would have loved to have seen him take the record from Jack - people don't like me to say this , but the time Tiger won his majors was a totally different game - a global sport , golf was the reserve of a select few in the past and the top level of the game was not as deep at the time Tiger won his.

But, I'm willing to let that bit go.

Still has been an absolute pleasure to be around for it and to see him in person.

As a golfer going forward, he is never going to be physically the same. He can win again , but the level of aggression in his younger swing is going to and has caught up with him. He is still swinging remarkably fast for a lad that has had back surgery - and has nothing to prove. That is also part of the problem - his whole life was about proving something to someone. Is that motivation ever going to be there ? Perhaps him been written off could be that motivation. But, not the same as him against everyone as it was as a kid.

slave1

You left out Jordan :eek:, the greatest athlete to dominate his sport in par with Woods and we also got to see him as his best (on TV). Jordan late 80's early 90's and Woods turn of the millennium IMHO. Jordan with his two threepeats and Woods through that Grand Slam and 54 rounds in a row without going over par streak. Both were playing and dominating their sports like no other...

HighLine

slave1 wrote: »

You left out Jordan :eek:, the greatest athlete to dominate his sport in par with Woods and we also got to see him as his best (on TV). Jordan late 80's early 90's and Woods turn of the millennium IMHO. Jordan with his two threepeats and Woods through that Grand Slam and 54 rounds in a row without going over par streak. Both were playing and dominating their sports like no other...

Except of course Michael Schumacher who was even more dominant than both of the above. A lot of similarities also with Tiger in that they were both so focused at being the very best at what they do and inside, they just knew they were better than any other competitor. That led to them coming across as arrogant and perhaps selfish in their pursuit of dominance.

HighLine

I think Darren Clarke summed up Tiger's current situation perfectly below..

"It would be wrong to read any more into how Tiger played in Phoenix other than to say that any time you make major swing changes in your game you are going to have to crawl before you walk," said Clarke, who has struggled for form himself since winning the Open Championship in 2011.

"It may be fine on the practice range but you only find out what's really happening in your game in competition. If Tiger makes changes in his game then he does so for a reason.

"He's the best player in the world and his perseverance and dedication will ensure you'll find him back up at the pointed end of a leaderboard and not down at the bottom.

"So I am not at all surprised or shocked as that would be foolish, and if you're making changes in your game then you're making changes.

"He'll be fine. He's too good a player not to be."

http://www1.skysports.com/golf/news/12232/9690420/phoenix-open-darren-clarke-believes-tiger-woods-will-bounce-back-soon

slave1

HighLine wrote: »

Except of course Michael Schumacher who was even more dominant than both of the above. A lot of similarities also with Tiger in that they were both so focused at being the very best at what they do and inside, they just knew they were better than any other competitor. That led to them coming across as arrogant and perhaps selfish in their pursuit of dominance.

Ah F1, I gave up that sport on a sunny day in May when Senna was taken, Schu is great but I'm afraid that his equipment advantage eliminates him (in my mind anyhow). Jordan and Woods had no equipment advantage over their peers.

HighLine

slave1 wrote: »

Ah F1, I gave up that sport on a sunny day in May when Senna was taken, Schu is great but I'm afraid that his equipment advantage eliminates him (in my mind anyhow). Jordan and Woods had no equipment advantage over their peers.

Schumacher went to Ferrari when they were in a slump and proceeded to dominate in a car that certainly had no advantage (at an early stage).As for Senna... certainly one to add to the above list also. Anyway... off topic I guess.

WHIP IT!

Have to laugh at Clarke calling Tiger 'the best player in the world'. It's like people just say these things because they feel like they should or say it out of habit.

Rory is the best player in the world, by some distance.

Tiger won lots of majors, played awesome golf, lied and spoofed his way through his career and personal life and has generally been an a*shole.

He hasn't won a Major since 2008. To put that in perspective, he hasn't won a Major since before Rory McIlroy's first professional win.

He's done. Golf needs to move on and stop following the guy who's shooting 82

slave1

Ah I don't think Clarke means at the minute, he was probably referring to best in the world ever, above Jack et al. I still say Pele is the best footballer.

Boskowski

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Have to laugh at Clarke calling Tiger 'the best player in the world'. It's like people just say these things because they feel like they should or say it out of habit.

Rory is the best player in the world, by some distance.

Tiger won lots of majors, played awesome golf, lied and spoofed his way through his career and personal life and has generally been an a*shole.

He hasn't won a Major since 2008. To put that in perspective, he hasn't won a Major since before Rory McIlroy's first professional win.

He's done. Golf needs to move on and stop following the guy who's shooting 82

:eek: Ah go and wash your mouth, er fingertips. (only messing)

Montgolfier

Give the guy a break he just needs more reps!!! It's a process you know, it takes time to trust that process.
I love watching him he's unreal!!! People are geting upset because he's not meeting there expectations, give the guy a break. He won player of the year only 2 years ago when Rory was at his worst!!!

FixdePitchmark

I was going to say a few more sports people , but just got a bit tired. Sierna Williams for example.

Wouldn't be too pushed on US sports. But Jordan , yes.

But to add. Tiger is arguably more important than any of the ones mentioned.

The only one in our life more important is going to be probably Messi. As football is a proper global game.
Again - just opinions but.

But in relation to golf, you'd struggle to name a more important person than than Eldrick Tont "Tiger" Woods.

Henry Ford III

Woods is finished. His time at the very top is gone.

No harm either - he's not a good guy at all.

FixdePitchmark

On a serious note - changes or no changes - how could Tiger woods have an 82.

Has to be more going on. Like his short game was shocking,

Unless he has spent so long on big changes the short game has gone, very strange. He said he hit 1000s upon 1000s of chips

Russman

It's strange really, how he's let his short game go off so much. I mean the guy was arguably in the top 5 or 10 scramblers ever. His whole career was pretty much built on getting up and down IMO. What would he ever need to change, technique wise, with his chipping ? I don't get it.

I wouldn't presume to know what goes on in his head, but I wonder if he's seeing the young guys blasting it past him now with ease and the focus is all on the long game. Even at that though, most half decent players could not touch a club for few weeks and still chip pretty good, certainly it wouldn't be as bad as he has been this week. Maybe it's purely mental.

Part of me feels sorry for him, being beaten by journeymen, but then when he spouts the sh1te like "release patterns" and "getting reps in", I think for f--k sake, it's chipping, there's your wedge, now chip the ball up beside the hole like a normal person would !! Wtf !!

vienne86

I'm very sad about Tiger. Always loved watching him play, and I like watching Rory too. It just annoys me the way they both completely dominate the TV coverage, at the expense of coverage of other players. I think watching every single shot Tiger was playing this week did not do anyone any good.

slave1

I agree, look at his game off the tee, woods, irons in etc but leave the short game as is (was)

Slicemeister

He seems to have aged a lot in the last few months imo. Looks like a man on serious medication, not DJ esque mind.

irish bloke

How does the greatest professional ever lose his touch in such a short time.
Beggars belief tbh....

ForeRight

I wouldn't be writing tiger off just yet.

Let's see how his game is come Augusta.

irish bloke

Many many majors left in him. He only has to look at Singh and even Ronnie o Sullivan in snooker for inspiration. Keep your body fit and the mind follows.
Fit Tiger and fit Rory, there is only one winner.

As long as he can swing a club I honestly see him winning majors in his 50's... Absolute athlete...

Letree

vienne86 wrote: »

I'm very sad about Tiger. Always loved watching him play, and I like watching Rory too. It just annoys me the way they both completely dominate the TV coverage, at the expense of coverage of other players. I think watching every single shot Tiger was playing this week did not do anyone any good.

The cameras follow everything he does even when he is playing terrible. Its frustrating to watch.

Tilikum

Letree wrote: »

The cameras follow everything he does even when he is playing terrible. Its frustrating to watch.

The cameras follow him because he's the most exciting player in the field. Time and time again he's done the most ridiculous things and gone on to win. He's the most popular golfer on the planet and righty so.

slave1

His PGA collection....

stockdam

Never really liked him. Yes he was a great golfer but I never warmed to him. I don't follow his every move but what I saw came across as a bit selfish; never saw him take time to say hello or sign autographs (I could be totally wrong). He could do what others couldn't but he didn't inspire me.

I'd rather see some outsider win a Major than Woods and for me, although I wish him the best, I won't worry if he never wins again.

Potential Underachiever

I would be amazed if Woods ever wins another PGA Tour event, never mind a major, he's gone in the head, his driving for years now has been abysmal, I always say to a mate of mine when my driving is bad 'well if woods can't master it then how will I'

midlouth

In 2013 he won 5 PGA competitions, he is making some swing changes and coupled with having surgery on his back last year, the stories of him being finished are premature. He is at a challenging point in his career, something we aren't used to seeing. With time I reckon he'll be back challenging. I'm looking forward to seeing where he can bring his game.

vienne86

I really don't think he can be written off at all yet. 2013 he had a few wins. He's just back after a long break. We can't say he's finished just on the basis of this week's grim performance.

davo10

vienne86 wrote: »

I really don't think he can be written off at all yet. 2013 he had a few wins. He's just back after a long break. We can't say he's finished just on the basis of this week's grim performance.

I agree that he cannot be written off, but a number of factors are now very much against him. The "fear factor" which caused many of his closest competitors to crumble in the final round is a thing of the past, these young guys never played against him in his pomp and now I think they would relish being paired with him. The game has moved on from what it was 5 years ago, the grooves/technology have changed and the likes of Mcilroy never had the benefit of the wedges which the players could launch the ball at the hole even from the rough, and it would stop dead. Woods is having to adapt now the same way Harrington is, that allows for a much narrower margin of error. His imperious putting prowess, particularly under pressure has deserted him and he does not seem to trust his "line" anymore, that is in the mind and no amount of practice can make up for indecision on the green. He seems to be trying to hit the ball as hard and as far as he used to, to try and keep up with the likes of mcilroy, Watson and Bradley but his body probably cannot tolerate the stresses causing him to hook/slice the ball into the rough off the tee.

I think the other players are just too good for him now and the mental toughness which should make up for his waning physical condition is sadly also deteriorating. I think this is akin to the slow, painfull deterioration the previous generation saw in the great Seve.

His decline is not recent, he shone briefly at the Masters two years ago and only for the misfortune of hitting a flag stick and going in the water he might have won. But what happened next is an example of why I am conflicted, he knowingly dropped from the wrong position to gain an advantage and had that been anyone else, he would have been disqualified.

I know posters will say that what he does on/off course should not make a difference but in my opinion (and obviously in sponsors opinion) that is tosh. I want Tiger the golfer to contend for majors but I think Tiger the golfing personality needs to understand now that golf alone will not sustain his position as an icon for the game. One poster posted that he would like to see him back at Titleist, sponsors love winners, they don't like losers and really don't like losers who generate negative publicity. Time will tell how much longer Nike will stay with him.

Slicemeister

I suppose it's not common knowledge when his Nike contract is up for renewal?

Wombatman

Were ye talking about someone dominating a sport for years and operating on a different level........ and being an A-hole?

FixdePitchmark

games and sport - another days debate.

Sure is golf a sport.


Takes coat..................... heads.

First Up

I know its a cliche but nobody should be bigger than the game and aspects of Woods ' career have crossed that line. It wasn't all his fault - America loves a winner and the media and corporate sponsors saw that he could bring a non golf audience to the market. They didn't care if that meant hostility to other players and a general decline in in spectator behaviour. Yes, I know the same was said of Arnies Army but there really isn't any comparison.

His achievements speak for themselves but too many things leave a bad taste. He didn't like Westchester Country Club (too tight) so he forced Buick to move their event to a course he preferred; getting spectators to move a boulder in Phoenix (how nicely ironic that it was the scene of his humiliation yesterday); losing a ball into the work sheds and getting a free drop because someone said they saw a course worker (who was never found) put a ball in his pocket; watching his entourage march through venues like they owned it; the way media were told that anything other than complete sycophancy would result in a ban. And one I personally witnessed when an errant ball was kicked back into play and those who objected were threatened with violence.

Yes he has done great things, expanded the game and made a lot of other players a lot richer. But I won't miss him when he's done.

vienne86

First Up wrote: »

I know its a cliche but nobody should be bigger than the game and aspects of Woods ' career have crossed that line. It wasn't all his fault - America loves a winner and the media and corporate sponsors saw that he could bring a non golf audience to the market. They didn't care if that meant hostility to other players and a general decline in in spectator behaviour. Yes, I know the same was said of Arnies Army but there really isn't any comparison.

His achievements speak for themselves but too many things leave a bad taste. He didn't like Westchester Country Club (too tight) so he forced Buick to move their event to a course he preferred; getting spectators to move a boulder in Phoenix (how nicely ironic that it was the scene of his humiliation yesterday); losing a ball into the work sheds and getting a free drop because someone said they saw a course worker (who was never found) put a ball in his pocket; watching his entourage march through venues like they owned it; the way media were told that anything other than complete sycophancy would result in a ban. And one I personally witnessed when an errant ball was kicked back into play and those who objected were threatened with violence.

Yes he has done great things, expanded the game and made a lot of other players a lot richer. But I won't miss him when he's done.

Now that you mention some of these things......hmmm. Yes, he security detail for one always got up my nose. Mind you, everyone wanted a piece of him.

Tilikum

Even Kaymer said today, Tiger is the greatest golfer in the world (in his time)

HighLine

First Up wrote: »

getting spectators to move a boulder in Phoenix (how nicely ironic that it was the scene of his humiliation yesterday)

Whilst you may disagree with it in principle... it's explicitly stated in the rules. Stupid rule that should have been changed post above mentioned incident.

23-1/3
Assistance in Removing Large Loose Impediment

Q.May spectators, caddies, fellow-competitors, etc. assist a player in removing a large loose impediment?

A.Yes.

First Up

HighLine wrote: »

Whilst you may disagree with it in principle... it's explicitly stated in the rules. Stupid rule that should have been changed post above mentioned incident.

23-1/3
Assistance in Removing Large Loose Impediment

Q.May spectators, caddies, fellow-competitors, etc. assist a player in removing a large loose impediment?

A.Yes.

Its where the rules and the spirit diverge.

vienne86

First Up wrote: »

Its where the rules and the spirit diverge.

If he doesn't break the rules, we can't complain.

First Up

vienne86 wrote: »

If he doesn't break the rules, we can't complain.

We can observe and make our own conclusions.

Domo1982

First Up wrote: »

And one I personally witnessed when an errant ball was kicked back into play and those who objected were threatened with violence.

More details on this one please?Did Tiger do this or the crowd?

First Up

Domo1982 wrote: »

More details on this one please?Did Tiger do this or the crowd?

The crowd. It relates to my comment about the general decline in spectator behavior.

Domo1982

First Up wrote: »

The crowd. It relates to my comment about the general decline in spectator behavior.

And you blame Tiger for this also?