Match Thread : Irish Wolfhounds V England Saxons Friday 30th Jan 2015

vienne86

RTE talking about Murray maybe being in doubt for the Italy game. I was at the open training session in the Aviva today, and I would say Murry will be OK to play......he was in the thick of things. Murray and Keatley next week methinks.

NiallBoo

sydthebeat wrote: »

Big winners tonight:

Keatley and Fitzgerald.

They really dodged a bullet alright. Do you think things would have been any better if either had been playing?

Buer

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

.. and Fitz came out of it best of all

Bizarrely, that could very well be the case. If we were to take that they were playing for the 23 jersey tonight between Earls, Fitz and McFadden, Fitz might well have done himself no harm by being in the stands.

UnitedWeStand

Always an ugly game with England.

Mad dog was on such hot form just 2 weeks ago. He was Leinsters star player this season dragging the team out of awful games.

What an unlucky time to have two bad games in succession.

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Well, this has been terrible. Pack was completely underwhelming, but only one or two of them will be in Joe mind for the Italy game anyway. Backs were error prone. Henderson and Earls had decent games and will probably feature against Italy.

Madigan's hair looked great, but he was poor otherwise and offers no direction at 10; Keatley should start against Italy. Madigan's kicking from the tee is his selling point, but I wouldn't consider it good enough to earn him the jersey. That is also approaching the old ROG/Sexton argument. We need Sexton to be cleared to play as soon as possible.

The problem is that Keatley is no better than Madigan.

We just need to get through the Italy game and get Sexton back in, neither Keatley or Madigan are close to being up to it.

Buer

Tox56 wrote: »

I suppose, but calling into question the abilities of a coach for a scratch game he wasn't even officially in charge of is pretty ridiculous.

Quite true but I do find it interesting from a Leinster perspective.

vienne86

Boss was OK when he came one. Did well enough last week when he came on for Reddan too.

Reddan was there for about 30 minutes this morning in the Aviva training session, but then disappeared. Was wondering if he is OK

total former

Buer wrote: »

Bizarrely, that could very well be the case. If we were to take that they were playing for the 23 jersey tonight between Earls, Fitz and McFadden, Fitz might well have done himself no harm by being in the stands.

Yeah I think so. Depending on what happened to McFadden, Fitzgerald is in pole for 23. Earls' missed tackles won't have sat well with Joe.

DDC1990

I wouldn't be so sure that Joe was going with Madigan.

As soon as I saw this team, I was sure that Keatley would start against Italy. Keatley would surely have been on the bench if Joe thought it was a toss up.

Keatley and Murray play week in week out at 9 -10. Keatley is a better game manager without having that Xfactor that Madigan brings. Bring into the equation that Madigan isn't playing regularly at 10 and I think it makes sense that Keatley starts.

I think that Madigan is a more skillful player and obviously has more international experience, but for this game Keatley fits in better.

Clegg

Tbh I'm not too happy with Madigan starting next week tbh. It's the situation we find ourselves in though so hopefully he pulls one out of the hat. Will require a big performance out of the pack.

S12b

Any chance the moderators could save us all a few hours of our lives and just close this thread???

Gidea

Jones either has a cold or he's heartbroken they lost

Buer

Bridge93 wrote: »

Earls was very very poor second half

He looked very sharp but definitely made a couple of significant errors. Worth a 23 jersey perhaps but didn't do much to assuage concerns over his claim on a test 13 jersey. He got absolutely burned by Daly at one point. It was a tough tackle to make but he completely misjudged the play and left a cavernous channel outside him.

ssaye2

Felix 😔

Losty Dublin

Ugh, just ugh. I'd gladly watch two teams train I like rugby that much but I struggled to keep an eye on this game it was that poor.

The positives? Not a lot this evening. Ireland probably played the better rugby in general but were either not interested in winning or under some sort of order to hold back and it was the losing of the game to an average England team. The set piece behind the pack was poor and it wasn't for the want of clean ball; both teams had plenty of it and didn't do a lot with it. England did make less errors but they played in such a way that they never were going to make any. Some fringe players got a bit of playing time as did Gilroy, SOB, Ross, Madigan, Darcy and Marmion.

The negatives? Well I could repeat most of the above paragraph only with a bigger frown. Oh yeah, and some insanely poor handling.

Overall I'd not take tonight's result to heart. It wasn't a game that mattered a lot to win plus it was a seasonal warm up. Something that is worth noting for the future is the apparant weakness of the England scrummage. Today's pack selection coupled with those of their starting teams in 2014 suggests that the days of a dominant tight 8 may finally be a thing of the past.

Tox56

DDC1990 wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure that Joe was going with Madigan.

As soon as I saw this team, I was sure that Keatley would start against Italy. Keatley would surely have been on the bench if Joe thought it was a toss up.

Keatley and Murray play week in week out at 9 -10. Keatley is a better game manager without having that Xfactor that Madigan brings. Bring into the equation that Madigan isn't playing regularly at 10 and I think it makes sense that Keatley starts.

I think that Madigan is a more skillful player and obviously has more international experience, but for this game Keatley fits in better.

I think having Keatley on the bench for this would have been pointless in the extreme, I don't take it as a sign he's starting next week

Bridge93

Madigan was poor but I don't see how Keatley is a better option. Kicking a goal is average, as prone as Madigan to brainfarts, probably a poorer defender.
Still feel Madigan is the lesser of two evils.

DDC1990

Tox56 wrote: »

I think having Keatley on the bench for this would have been pointless in the extreme, I don't take it as a sign he's starting next week

Why exactly? Do you think that Schmidt wanted to give Madigan the full game at 10? Was it the case that he knows what Keatley can do at 10 and wanted to see what Madigan can do?

Tox56

DDC1990 wrote: »

Why exactly? Do you think that Schmidt wanted to give Madigan the full game at 10? Was it the case that he knows what Keatley can do at 10 and wanted to see what Madigan can do?

The latter. Keatley would have had very little benefit from this game, Madigan hasn't played 10 for ages and definitely needed it

I took his omission as a suggestion that he will be involved next week, but not a sign that he would start, although he could

aimee1

Bridge93 wrote: »

Earls was very very poor second half

earls was knackered, hardly a surprise. When you lose one of your backs in the first few minutes to injury it does compromise your bench. He had a strong first half but I think, like SOB, 80 min in 6n next week is not realistic.

I thought madigan did ok. Nothing more or less then what I expected. He has his faults but he also has plenty to offer. His tee kicking and his defensive abilities will get him the nod next week I feel.

jones, d'arcy and conway were poor. Marmion was a mixed bag. If McFadden is out next week then Earls in the 23 shirt

Flipper22

Wow, scrappy stuff. Ryan had an incredible first 20 minutes and then faded, SOB played well though he looked, understandably, to be really sucking air at times. Diack did well when he came on, as did McKeon who reminds me a bit of POM.

Halfbacks were very poor in general play, Madigan especially. Some dreadful decision making and kicking. Mads go-to play seems to be just to have a cut himself, and no-one's buying his footwork these days. Teams just look so headless in attack with him at ten. I've been assuming Madigan would start the Italy game, and I'm not sure whether that type of game will really sway Joe one way or the other, but I'm now wondering whether Joe has been intending to start Keatley all along. Especially given Mads played the 80.

Boss is clearly a better current option than Marmion at this level, though I'd consider going for Marmion ahead of him on the bench if Murray doesn't make it. One eye on the world cup.

vienne86

I just don't think Madigan is good enough to be first choice 10 next week. I know he kicks well at goal, but Keatley is better in the cockpit. And he is used to playing with Murray.

Bridge93

aimee1 wrote: »

earls was knackered, hardly a surprise. When you lose one of your backs in the first few minutes to injury it does compromise your bench. He had a strong first half but I think, like SOB, 80 min in 6n next week is not realistic.

I thought madigan did ok. Nothing more or less then what I expected. He has his faults but he also has plenty to offer. His tee kicking and his defensive abilities will get him the nod next week I feel.

jones, d'arcy and conway were poor. Marmion was a mixed bag. If McFadden is out next week then Earls in the 23 shirt

Unless he's starting id have Fitzgerald at 23 if he's well.

vienne86

Donal Lenehan just reminding us McCarthy might be concussed. We're very thin in the second row now. Henderson has probably played himself in.

heybaby

Neither Keatley nor Madigan are international standard for me, and I worry about the French game in particular if Sexton isn't going to be ready.

Tonight's performance by the wolfhounds was nothing short of drab. This is a new campaign, these players many of them are fighting to a first team spot, very few staking a credible claim against a mediocre English team.

Let's hope when the 6 nations proper starts next weekend we see a bit more passion, creativity and actual rugby from our lads.

hullaballoo

I don't think there's anything that can be gleaned from that match because I don't think anyone could stomach watching it again to analyse it.

SaveOurLyric

Tox56 wrote: »

The latter. Keatley would have had very little benefit from this game, Madigan hasn't played 10 for ages and definitely needed it

I took his omission as a suggestion that he will be involved next week, but not a sign that he would start, although he could

i.e. 'joe wanted to see what Madigan can do at 10' ?

As if Joe has anything to learn about Mads at 10. It was simply an extensive 'real world' exercise session for him. And allowed him to blow any lingering placekicking cobwebs away before he has to do it for real again next week.

DDC1990

Tox56 wrote: »

The latter. Keatley would have had very little benefit from this game, Madigan hasn't played 10 for ages and definitely needed it

I took his omission as a suggestion that he will be involved next week, but not a sign that he would start, although he could

Yeah, fair enough. I kinda took it the other way that Joe knew that he was starting Keatley but wanted to give Madigan the game at 10 just in case something happened.

Joe loves his combinations which is the main reason I think he'll go with Keatley if Murray makes it through as expected.

Don't think this game did anyone's chances any good, as harsh it is on those lads.

tommyteetoes

That was dreadful stuff considering the players we had out and what they were playing for.
Everyone of them was looking to perform and force their way into the Irish 6 nations squad.
My guess is Schmidt is raging after that, all the players have been training with him and it looks like they learnt f all from him.

awec

Picking between Keatley or Madigan is like picking between a punch in the face or a kick in the balls.

Neither are particularly desirable.